posted on February 2, 2006 07:42:08 PM
I bought an item on ebay, paid for it with paypal and it was supposed to be shipped insured. It arrived cracked and uninsured. Seller claimed I didn't pay for insurance but she had said it was included in the shipping price. She now claims I didn't pay for it and should have.
I contacted the seller who said ship it back and she would refund my bid LESS the shipping price and would not pay for the postage to return it. The cost was $112.00 and the shipping was $17.95. With the rise in postage rates, I estimate it would cost around $20.00 to return it. Spending $38.00 to return a $112.00 item seems steep.
I did a chargeback, Paypal told me to return it and I would have to eat the shipping costs. Didn't return it and the paypal chargeback lapsed since I didn't return it.
Contacted my CC company who was very nice and said I should not have to pay for the shipping since the seller should not have shipped it uninsured. Said they would refund my purchase price including shipping and I could toss the item.
I got an email from paypal which said they'd received the chargeback notice from my CC company.
Anyone know what happens next? This is the first time I've had this problem. I haven't tossed it, it's useless to me but I'm wondering if paypal will pay for the shipping back to them so don't want to toss it until I find out.
posted on February 2, 2006 07:57:22 PM
Most credit card issuers expect the buyer to return the item,you should also have some proof you have returned the item,such as a signature receipt.
Do you have anything in writing from the seller that insurance is included in shipping??
/ lets all stop whining !! /
posted on February 2, 2006 08:51:14 PM
I do have an email from the seller stating the item was shipped insured and the date it was shipped. When it arrived uninsured, I sent her a copy of her email and she said she made a mistake, she'd checked and I hadn't paid for insurance so she didn't insure.
My cc company said I would have had to return it only if paypal or the seller sent me a postage paid label or pickup tag to return it which was not done.
posted on February 3, 2006 04:53:09 AM
By getting the money back and keeping the item, IMO, it's the same as stealing the item and I'm not sure about this, but I think the seller can report you to the authorities for this. I don't think your CC company gave you good advice.
If an item I sell arrives broken BEFORE I return any monies, I want photos of that broken piece and I want the item returned to me. I check for my mark and if it's there, I refund the shipping and the cost of the item. What you have to understand is that for every buyer that feels they are getting ripped off, there are 10 sellers who actually are. This they don't advertise on the news.
BTW, my suppliers will credit me for items I've received broken once I return that item to them. They do not refund shipping costs for sending the item back to them. I would find the cheapest possible shipping method and send the item back to the seller. Keeping the item is the wrong thing to do. Just because you feel the seller is doing the wrong thing (and I tend to agree), doesn't mean that you should, too.
Cheryl
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
posted on February 3, 2006 05:20:53 AM
Will the item fit inside a Flat Rate Priority Box ? There are two sizes. You can ship for $8.10 regardless of weight if it fits inside. Heck, give the seller the option of paying the shipping or you will MAKE it fit in the flat rate box
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posted on February 3, 2006 05:30:24 AM
LOL, neglus! Good idea. Even if the customer does not pay for insurance, I insure all breakable items myself. In the end, it can save your backside!
Cheryl
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
posted on February 3, 2006 04:47:24 PM
"By getting the money back and keeping the item, IMO, it's the same as stealing the item and I'm not sure about this, but I think the seller can report you to the authorities for this. I don't think your CC company gave you good advice."
I have no problem with returning the item, I'd like to, unfortunately it requires a much bigger box than the flat rate and I'm not paying $20.00 to return something that should have been insured and may in fact, have been already broken before mailing. It was described as being in "perfect condition" otherwise I never would have bid on it.
I sent my cc co. the emails from paypal that said neither they nor the seller would pay for return shipping. My cc co. said if I was sent a return shipping label or the $$ to pay for shipping then I would have to return it but since I hadn't received either, it was mine to do with as I pleased.
My cc co. notified paypal that they had credited my account. Paypal notified the seller and asked for info to fight the chargeback. The seller sent paypal something, I'm not sure what info paypal is looking for from the seller. Anyone know? What happens next?
My cc co. said it is the seller's responsibility to get the item to me in the condition it was in when I purchased it and the seller should have insured it for her protection, not mine.
posted on February 3, 2006 04:54:50 PM
Hi London,
sounds to me like there is nothing else for you to do. You should get your credit card refund.
If seller is smart, she will pay for shipping if she wants her item. Sounds like she is the one who made the mistake and you should not lose anymore sleep over the matter.
I wonder how the sellers on this board would be feeling about all this? I think it is a good reminder to pay attention to how you word your TOS. Also, always check to see if buyer has paid for insurance.
I know I have overlooked the buyer's insurance payment before, but luckily I have never had a claim.
If the seller used DC (delivery confirmation) that is probably what he sent PayPal. This shows the item was delivered to you.
Edited to add: If the seller sent the item to a confirmed address, he should be protected. LOL, right!
Cheryl
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
[ edited by cblev65252 on Feb 3, 2006 05:12 PM ]
posted on February 3, 2006 05:27:55 PM
I have a chargeback pending right now and my credit card issuer MBNA told me I have to return the item and obtain a credit receipt or some kind of receipt before MBNA would credit my account.
I returned the items and the store refused to give me a receipt,and MBNA said they have to submit my story to VISA/MC and VISA/MC will allow the other party time to explain their side of the story ,then VISA/MC will decide who is right and who is wrong.
In your case,it sounds like your credit card issuer is confident you are going to win the chargeback as they credit your account,and they are telling you Paypal or the seller should pay for return shipping,I hope they know what they are doing,as it sounds like it is not up to your credit card issuer to decide,it is up to MC/VISA.
Until now,I was always under the impression that the customer's credit card issuer has the final say,not VISA/MC.
Also in the past ,both sides can appeal 2 times after initial outcome,but not any more,no more appeal,what is decided is final.
/ lets all stop whining !! /
posted on February 3, 2006 06:58:02 PM
As a seller, I include the following in my TOS. I also print the same and enclose with the order, as a reminder of what the buyer agreed to when the item was purchased.
"Refunds: If you are not satisfied for any reason, you may exchange or return your purchase for the selling price of the item. We will not refund your purchase if the item is returned in unsaleable condition, or not returned. We do not refund shipping and handling charges or reimburse for the cost of returning the item to us. All returns or exchanges must be made within 7 days of receipt. Please allow up to 10 business days for refunds to be processed. Please email us within 3 days of item receipt, before returning any item. The placement of an order will indicate your acceptance of these terms.
All purchases are made pursuant to a shipment contract. This means that the risk of loss and title for such items pass to you upon our delivery to the carrier. The placement of an order with us, will indicate acceptance of this policy."
I use Shipping Assistant, which indicates acceptance by the USPS, and provides a history of the item till delivered. I also use the CN22 Customs Form, even when not required. This form when scanned indicates acceptance of the item by USPS. In both instances, I offer insurance as an option, and can show acceptance by the USPS. Under the shipping contract I have fulfilled my obligation.
Now, this does not mean that I will not work with a buyer. It does mean that I can choose when I want to make a refund. If it is a small item, no problem. Large order, which suddenly disappears, or there is an attempt at charge back, I can avoid.
