blueyes29
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posted on April 14, 2006 09:14:11 PM new
The mother of a friend of mine was an avid antiques collector; this basket comes from her collection. Can anyone identify the tribe or provide any information? It looks quite old but neither my friend nor I know anything at all about it. Thanks for any help. If there's a web site I could use for research, that would be helpful too.
[ edited by blueyes29 on Apr 14, 2006 09:16 PM ]
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roadsmith
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posted on April 14, 2006 09:58:27 PM new
There are groups called Tribal Councils in the U.S. I wonder if they have a larger governing group that could field such a question to a museum curator or such.
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piinthesky
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posted on April 14, 2006 10:09:59 PM new
It looks like an Apache pine needle basket to me. Although, I do believe that the Navajos did the same type of basket weaving with coiled pine needles.
The pine needles that they used to tie the coils were soaked in water to loosen them and make them pliable and when they dried they return to being stiff and they hold quite well. What are it's dimensions?
Try Googling, Apache pine needle basket.
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blueyes29
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posted on April 14, 2006 10:30:41 PM new
Thanks for the info, "pi"...helps a lot. There are several sponsored sites that I can send photos to for more information so will tackle that tomorrow. I never would have thought of pine needles but I think you're right. Thanks again...Maybe an "expert" will read this board and be able to give a professional opinion.
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birgittaw
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posted on April 15, 2006 01:17:00 AM new
Looks closest to a Florida Seminole Indian basket to me. Hard to tell age on this basket, but certainly not new, perhaps 1940s? If I recall, these were sold as tourist souvenirs. And often contain sweetgrass as well as the pine needles.
Pine needles were used in many areas of the south for basketry; Gullah sweetgrass baskets from Charleston are probably the best known although this is definitely not one of those.
Hope that gave you a lead at least.
B/
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hwahwa
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posted on April 15, 2006 05:56:50 AM new
I want to know what camera do you use to take such good photo??
/ lets all stop whining !! /
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buyhigh
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posted on April 15, 2006 01:08:42 PM new
Basket not Apache nor was it made by any Native American group inhabiting the S.W. US. I used to collect Indian baskets and had over 100. It is made with what is called a split stitch method of basket making. Does not take too much time to make. Some of these were made by white ladies doing crafts. I have a large waste paperbasket sitting by my computer made the same way . The stitching ( split stitch)on mine is raffia. The coils are pine needles Have seen trays ( with photos pasted on them) and other souveners made the same way.
buyhigh
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fenix03
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posted on April 15, 2006 01:33:39 PM new
Are you in a city with a decent museum? You can usually make appointments with people there to evaluate and give you info. Plus you get to mention that the currator from the Whosiwhatsit Musuem tells you.... 
My step used to find all sorts of strange little treasures in the area where he would take the dog to run. About 4 times a year he would take ome of the different bones and arrowheads down to have them identified and dated. Of course when they got ready to move it was me collecting and carefully packing mammoth teeth and 1000 year old cutting tools laying around (display denotes organization - this was more like - Hey look what I found... I'll put it here til you want to look at it) all over the house but that's another story.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
Never ask what sort of computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If he's not, why embarrass him? - Tom Clancy
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roadsmith
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posted on April 15, 2006 01:35:07 PM new
Blueyes--Here's a coincidence! I was just shopping in our little library's book-sale room and found one on American Indian baskets. I'll take a look in a few minutes and will let you know.
**************
Aha! I found it, I think. #79. Pine needle coils in a "tourist basket," tribal origin unknown; collected in Montana.
I'll take a picture in a bit and add it here.
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blueyes29
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posted on April 15, 2006 01:54:33 PM new
Hwahwa...My camera is my trusty Sony Mavica 72...I LOVE it and wouldn't use any other kind. Thanks, all, for the terrific info. I searched eBay for "pine needle basket" and found an auction for 4 that look similiar. I was hoping this was a rare and valuable basket (in my heart of hearts, I didn't REALLY think it was...but I was hoping)...apparently, it's a fairly common and not-too-rare basket. Will be interested in the photo, roadsmith...thanks for taking the time to enlighten me...appreciate it!
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roadsmith
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posted on April 15, 2006 02:21:53 PM new
Here are the pictures. I'll add them one at a time. If anyone wants this book, they can have it for the $3 I spent plus $1.59 shipping. ~Adele
[ edited by roadsmith on Apr 15, 2006 02:23 PM ]
[ edited by roadsmith on Apr 15, 2006 02:24 PM ]
[ edited by roadsmith on Apr 15, 2006 02:28 PM ]
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roadsmith
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posted on April 15, 2006 02:43:20 PM new
Blueyes, don'tcha just love that Sony Mavica? That's what I have, too, and I'm thinking I should shop for a replacement just in case mine goes on the fritz. I can't imagine using another camera. The closeups alone make it valuable to me.
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blueyes29
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posted on April 15, 2006 03:16:06 PM new
Thanks so much, roadsmith...appears that's exactly the kind of basket I have. Good idea to buy another Sony Mavica 75 (I got the number wrong in my first post). Actually, it was folks here on this board who clued me in to that camera...I knew nothing about digital cameras and everyone said the Sony Mavica was the one to buy. Close-ups are easy and turn out great. The clincher for me was that photos could be taken on a disc and loaded directly onto the hard drive...no need for extra cables or picture cards or other things. Thanks again for the basket info!
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roadsmith
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posted on April 15, 2006 03:26:34 PM new
You're very welcome. I get so much help from this board that I love it when I can contribute any little bit of knowledge I can!
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buyhigh
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posted on April 15, 2006 04:26:41 PM new
July 1975 Arizona Highways issue on Baskets -page35 shows photos of different types of Eastern Indian baskets i.e. Chowtaw, Cherokee,Iroquois etc. also has one photo showing split stitch flat coil plaque( pine needles)with of unknown origin as an ID. Who ever made these is a mystery -
buyhigh
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buyhigh
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posted on April 15, 2006 04:45:44 PM new
P.S while you can buy batteries for a Mavica online which while not made by Sony are compatable and much cheaper, you might look into a FD85 or later because you can buy an AC adapter for those which eliminates the need for a battery. I still use my original FD72 and have a FD74 as a backup. Would not have anything else for closeups but many new computers no longer have a port for floppys.
buyhigh
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roadsmith
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posted on April 15, 2006 05:00:52 PM new
Yes, a mystery as to the maker, for sure.
Buyhigh: When you say the AC adapter eliminates the need for batteries, what do you mean exactly? No batteries at all?
Second question: Does your later model of the Mavica take good closeups?
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buyhigh
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posted on April 15, 2006 08:15:05 PM new
to answer the first question - you do not need to have a charged battry to use the adapter in the later models of the Mavica starting I believe with FD85. There is an adapter that you plug in to a wall outlet and a little "hole" where you put the "pin point end of the adapter" It will also charge the battery if you have one. I once ordered one because the listing stated an FD74 would take one, only to discover there was no place on my camera to plug it in. I returned it and got another battery instead. My FD74 is not really any different than the old72 - just lighter in weight
buyhigh
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profe51
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posted on April 15, 2006 09:47:26 PM new
The basket may be Indian, but it's not Apache. To say indian basket makers never used split stitch isn't correct. Papago baskets are made with it, and have been for a long time. I have many old Papago baskets that date to the early 1900's done in split stitch. They call it "lazy stitch", as they figured it out early on as a way to make quick tourist items. Being pine needle, it's probably woodland, or maybe northern plains.
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buyhigh
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posted on April 16, 2006 06:56:33 AM new
I am aware that the Papago make split stitch baskets. I have gotten rid of a few on Ebay - for very little money by the way. But all the pine needle type may not even be Indian. In past times in the last century, basket making was done by whites as a craft type hobby also using pine needles ( easily gathered) a split stitch and raffia some times for the stitching. Will admit I have also seen a few small ones with tags indicating that they were done in Louisiana by Native American descendents. The large wastebasket I have has colored stitching and appears to have a light coat of shellac on the outside. I have no idea who made it.
buyhigh
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