posted on August 10, 2006 05:57:24 AM
Well... as always... eBay can't leave anything that works alone... They're working on changing the feedback system. Basically the survey was getting information on ways to expand feedback to give more weight to repeat purchases from buyers... and what's really the bad thing, is make an optional detailed feedback section with 5 star ratings on criteria such as Item as described, Communication, Shipping Time, and Shipping and handling charges.
I think it's a mistake (and told them that). The only buyers that will take the time to fill out the detailed section will be disgruntled bidders. That will make the star ratings unproportionally lower, and buyers will be more reluctant to purchase items. Not to mention... I didn't see any mention of detailed sections that sellers could leave for BUYERS! Just one more way that eBay's trying to tip the scale in favor of the bidders. I'm glad my new website is almost ready to launch.
posted on August 10, 2006 07:16:35 AM
Sorry, I don't understand your gripe.
eBay can't leave anything that works alone
You must be one of the few people who believes the feedback system works. I think most of the rest of us came to the conclusion years ago it is hopelessly broken and not to be relied on.
These points have been rehashed time and again, but to summarize:
When a non-payer can leave a neg for a seller, is that fair?
Is it fair that sellers refrain from leaving cautionary comments that would help other sellers for fear of a retaliatory neg?
And lastly, is it fair that anyone can say anything they want, fact-based or not, in feedback as long as it is not obscene or reveals contact information?
There is also massive bidder misunderstanding about feedback, how it works, and the simple fact that it is voluntary. I still get the occasional "you're such a lousy seller, you have terrible feedback" taunt because the ignoramuses don't understand what the feedback numbers stand for.
posted on August 10, 2006 07:31:45 AM
So true fLuff. But it seems like their going to break it even worse then it already is if they make these changes. It would be even more slanted to the buyer if they make this change.
Another way to think about feedback is that it can never be fixed. It is afterall a opinion based system and everyone's opinion of a similar ebay transaction is going to be unique and their own be it good or bad.
God knows that the current system is not perfect but it does work. If we let ebay start to pink it to death it will be worse then it is now.
1 out of 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Take a look at your 3 closest friends. If they seem alright, you're the one! - Kyle Stubbins, CMS
posted on August 10, 2006 07:51:07 AM
Sounds like someone at ebay has been to Blockbusters online. I wonder how long it's been since ebay had an original idea??
This is one of the worst ideas they have stolen in awhile
posted on August 10, 2006 08:03:39 AM
I certainly think the FB system could use an overhaul but if the Auctionbytes article shows what the new FB will look like - YIKES! The current system remains in place AND the buyers can get MORE digs in with the rating system.
Ed to add - Fluff I am sure you will like the rating of shipping and handling charges. YOW!
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posted on August 10, 2006 08:30:39 AMFluff I am sure you will like the rating of shipping and handling charges. YOW!
I honestly can't see how it will affect me. All the concerns brought up in that article are areas that buyers can already comment about -- and do -- in the 80-character feedback line. Speed of shipping? I can't control the Postal Service, so I don't worry about what anyone says. I have noticed, though, that in my feedback the comments even out...lots of "fast shipping" and "super-fast shipping" interspersed with "slow shipping". So I imagine it will be just the same with a new system: a wash.
Same for the other comments. If someone, having had the shipping fee presented to them in black and white, right up front, before bidding, still feels a need to make a stink about it, they already can and they have 80 characters in which to vent their spleen. I don't think changing the feedback system will affect that at all.
You guys get so caught up in the minutiae, the thrill and horror and drama of it all. Most changes eBay makes end up making no difference at all. Look at eBay Express.
I think that we're just being realistic about realizing that this change could again have a potential impact on OUR business. You're exactly right that you don't have control over the post office delivery time... but if you end up getting a rating of 0-1 stars for shipping time because bidders don't understand that, don't you think that will hurt the number of people wanting to bid on your items? The problem is that a "wash" like you describe would still leave you with only about a 2-3 star rating... which most bidders probably wouldn't feel too comfortable with. Most bidders already look for at least 98-99% positive feedback ratings. What makes you think they'd buy stuff from any one who had been rated at 50-60% for any specific areas? PLUS keep in mind that with ANY rating system the ones that are UPSET are MORE LIKELY TO RESPOND!!! That means that (since adding the details is more work) the response are going to be automatically slanted to the negative side.
Neglus,
The link you provided with the example is pretty close to how it looked in the survey I got. The great part is if they do implement this, all us sellers with big feedback ratings are going to start out all over again with teeny-little detail rating numbers. It takes time to built that stuff up to a high enough number to inspire bidder confidence!
posted on August 10, 2006 09:20:57 AMdon't you think that will hurt the number of people wanting to bid on your items?
No, but I have a fanatically loyal buyer following who keep coming back for more. I'm #436 on the Sellathon 10,000 for July '06 ranked by percentage of repeat buyers.
Can you give me an example or two of what some of the consequences of the new feedback system might be? I'm just not seeing it. Thanks.
fLufF
1) Unfair to sellers because they don't get the same way to rate a buyer. Where's our star system to rate how good or bad the buyers communications, speed of paying and following the terms we set in the listing?
2) How is it fair that I am rated on how fast the USPS, UPS, FedEx or DHL deliver my shipment? I ship same or next day depending on when I get paid. After it leaves my door step it's out of my hands. I have had packages take 2 to 3 weeks to get from me on the east coast to the west coast. Was that my fault? No, it was the USPS's fault.
3) "Shipping and Handling Charges" I don't overcharge for shipping by any means but I can still see this one getting abused. Buyers often do not realize how much time and money is invested in preparing their item for shipment and that I don't get my packing materials for free. I have to buy packing materials, box's and rigid mailers, shipping labels and all the other associated cost. I had a buyer tell me about a year ago I ripped him off for shipping. It was a large cast iron piece of saw sharpening equipment that weighed close to 150 pounds. I had to disassemble it to be able to ship it safely. By the time I was done wrapping each individual piece and packing it in a tripple wall box my cost for supplies was close to $19 plus the actual shipping charges from DHL of $63 for a total cost to me of $82 and that does not include the hour it took me to safely pack it. I charged them $80 for shipping and handling, a loss of $2 to me and they still complained. I took the time to send them a email with links to Uline (where I buy all my supplies) for the exact shipping supplies I used and pointed out the cost and a scan of the DHL bill to prove to them that I shipped to them at a small loss. There reply was that they were not convinced and still thought I ripped them off. I got a positive feedback from them because they were happy with the item and they did not mention the handling fee's. What do you think they would have done if they also had a "star rating" system? They would have given me a 1 for shipping and handling fee's which would not have been fair.
Is this enough or should I continue? I could slam this new system all day.
"You guys get so caught up in the minutiae, the thrill and horror and drama of it all. Most changes eBay makes end up making no difference at all. Look at eBay Express."
True to a point. We (myself included) do get caught up in the "thrill and horror" of the changes ebay comes out with. Why you ask? Because it's not just that little change at the time in my opinion. It's the never ending changes that eventually end up with the overall effect of (in my opinion) making thing's worse then they were before. I myself was happier 1 year ago with ebay then I am now, I was even happier yet 2 years ago. It just seems to me as a buyer and seller that I am getting tired of the never ending tinkering with their system to try to make thing's better. They are not getting better, they are getting worse.
Ebay's primary concern is how much money they make, not you or me. They don't seem to realize that there can only be so much growth. I think they are reaching the peak of what they can expect for growth per year. There are just people that will never feel safe buying or selling on ebay and will never use it for whatever reason. The majority of people that have a computer and do purchase items online have already checked out ebay and either use it or not. No matter how much they advertise and make changes to the site they are only going to get so many new people a year. The mad rush to ebay is over. To make matters worse they invest huge amounts of money overseas to start up ebay in area's like China and are finding it's just a big flop. Who pay's for their failure's? We do, not the Chinese.
I just seem to spend more time shaking my head at ebay's bright idea's now day's then smiling at them.
1 out of 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Take a look at your 3 closest friends. If they seem alright, you're the one! - Kyle Stubbins, CMS
posted on August 10, 2006 10:56:00 AMEbay's primary concern is how much money they make, not you or me.
In my business, my primary concern is also how much money I make. That is what makes all else possible. I don't think you're different in this regard.
They don't seem to realize that there can only be so much growth.
That's an excellent point. It's the result of walling up MBAs in a stronghold at Camden and Hamilton Avenues in San Jose, CA. If they go out for lunch and see real people on the street, they avert their eyes.
In the marketing biz, there used to be a concept called Chinese Marketing. The idea was that you could project sales of your product at levels unheard of previously...if only you could sell to the teeming hordes in China. The sour joke, of course, is that China was a closed market.
posted on August 10, 2006 11:01:03 AM
Oh I agree. I'm in the business of making money to. Just not at the expense of loosing future money. You can only pi** on someone so many times before they leave for good. Ebay seems to be doing alot of pi**ing on people these day's.
1 out of 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Take a look at your 3 closest friends. If they seem alright, you're the one! - Kyle Stubbins, CMS
posted on August 10, 2006 11:12:11 AM
I think successful ebay selling is repeat customers. I'm actually in the top 400 for repeat customers. I don't think the current feedback system works well, but I don't know if making it more complicated will work. Who knows, I've had my share of people buying just to get feedback, I am sure some of those people will want to take more time to leave feedback. I wonder what the affect will be for people leaving automatic feedback.
posted on August 10, 2006 03:49:50 PM
"Shipping time" in their proposed system is rotten! So many newbies think we're responsible for how long an item takes to get to them after we've promptly mailed it, especially with media mail, and they have a tendency to think it's the seller's fault.
1 out of 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Take a look at your 3 closest friends. If they seem alright, you're the one! - Kyle Stubbins, CMS