posted on October 1, 2007 03:02:51 PM new
I sold and shipped a vintage floor lamp a few months back. It arrived broken off at the base. Really what happened is the inside bolt or nut snapped. I tried to get the buyer to take it to a lamp repair shop or a hardware store to get a repair estimate. My husband said it should only cost about $15 or so to fix.
The buyer insisted that it was not repairable and said he had no way to take it to a repair shop or a hardware store etc. I find this hard to believe as he lives in Boston?
So I filed the claim stating that he said it wasn't repairable. I really thought they (DHL) would deny the claim or insist that he get an estimate. Well today I got a full refund of $160.
As I feel it is repairable - should I ask that he return it before I refund his money(no paypal involved)? I don't think it's fair for him to get it repaired for a few dollars, keep the lamp and keep the refund as well. Or even worst for him to throw it away as it's a really nice 60's piece.
I don't think it's fair for me get and repair the lamp for resale either. I guess I could keep it. Nothing seem like the right thing to do in this case.
posted on October 1, 2007 03:08:50 PM new
oh gosh... i honestly think i would send the refund on to the customer and chalk it up as a 'nothing' .... and i'm assuming they sent you a picture of the broken lamp? ..... geez, even if they didn't have a camera to do that for you, i think i would take their word for it and send them the refund. you already got your money from the sale.
posted on October 1, 2007 03:12:34 PM new
I was in Boston a few weeks ago. It's highly impractical to drive in the city. Perhaps he feels he can't haul it around on public transportation?
I'd have him return it at his expense and once you get it back, refund his money.
posted on October 1, 2007 03:51:18 PM new
as ladyjewels2000 said NO PAYPAL involved. I would pay for him to send it back and then give him the refund. JMO
posted on October 1, 2007 04:00:12 PM new
I also agree. You received the insurance money to return the buyer to his position before the sale. Now, you have to be returned to your original position - possession of the lamp.
However, pay for the return of the lamp. There is no valid reason that the buyer should pay for the lamp return to you.
posted on October 1, 2007 04:16:44 PM new
hey you guys ... i think we're talking about a floor lamp! ... might have cost more to ship than the ending bid amount!
oops.... edited to say 'it went for 160$' .. that's a lot of money .... yeap, get it back and fix it, and resell.
[ edited by aintrichyet on Oct 1, 2007 04:23 PM ]
posted on October 1, 2007 04:27:44 PM new
I don't understand the dilemma. You sold lamp for $160 (or whatever) and you were paid by buyer and shipped. You are where you should be on transaction.
Buyer got broken lamp. Instead of getting refund from PP he gets refund from DHL - so when you forward him the $, he is where he should be in the transaction.
He has possession of the lamp. His gain. If you want it, you should see if he will send it to you at your expense, but he certainly doesn't have to do it! If anyone has a right to it I would say it's DHL.
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posted on October 1, 2007 04:59:54 PM new
Shipping wasn't bad at all.
I would be glad to pay for return shipping.
DHL didn't even go look at it and I don't think they would want the lamp either.
He did provide a photo which I sent with the claim.
The only reason I'm thinking of requiring the return of the lamp is his stand that it's not repairable. If he truly believes this - then he will only throw it away. If he knows it can be repaired then why should he gain from his dishonesty.
Maybe it's not repairable but I'd like the chance to try.
posted on October 1, 2007 05:36:53 PM new
The right thing to do is to refund his money with no strings attached. You could request that he send it back to you, at your expense. If he complies, you would be better off (if the lamp is repairable) than you were when you received payment for the item. I would see it as an extra chore to package and ship a broken lamp and hope you would offer a handling charge. Not wanting to repair an item broken in shipping is not a sign of dishonesty! If you have your money, why should you care what he does with the broken lamp? Edited to add: The chances of your buyer being a scammer are slim, why not give him the benefit of the doubt and walk away whole?
[ edited by pixiamom on Oct 1, 2007 06:21 PM ]
posted on October 2, 2007 05:31:44 AM new
Saying something is not repairable when you know it is repairable is dishonest. Maybe he really believes it isn't repairable in which case he won't want to keep it anyway! Maybe that's my answer - if he doesn't want to send it back that may indicate that he knows he can get it fixed.
I wouldn't call it a chore to repack it as he has all the original packing materials including the box.
Besides as Cash said you can't have the item and the refund.
Like I said it doesn't seem fair no matter what.
posted on October 2, 2007 05:45:30 AM new
Oh come on, Lady. I think if this was someone else's situation you might view it differently. So let's cast it as someone else's situation.
I buy a KitchenAid stand mixer, supposedly in like-new condition. It arrives with the base broken off. The seller says, "Oh gosh I'm sorry that happened, but you can get it fixed, you know. Go get a few estimates."
Frankly, I'm annoyed. I was expecting a mixer in as-new condition, not a huge new complication in my already-too-busy life.
What's worse, this sucker is HEAVY. I can barely lift it and I sure as shootin' can't carry it for much of any distance. Who's going to take it to the UPS Store to ship back to the seller?
I honestly don't know if this thing is repairable or not and I certainly don't care. At this point I just want my money back. Meanwhile, the seller is behaving as though this is the Holy Grail of stand mixers and I stole it right out of her kitchen.
Here is how she can make me whole. Two choices:
1) Refund my money in full and I'll have my husband lug this boat anchor out to the curb on trash collection day, or
2) Arrange to have someone pick up the mixer as-is, package it, and return it to the seller. Then refund my money in full.
I have done nothing wrong. I don't understand this lady's attitude.
posted on October 2, 2007 06:03:04 AM new
People are all different. Some simply don't want a repaired item. Or frankly, shouldn't have to deal with it, if it's broken. Not his fault it broke -- and honestly, if he had to wait months (I did read that correctly, yes?) for a resolution I don't know that I'd be particularly happy in his situation. That's a long time to wait!
Holding him hostage to return a broken lamp is not good customer service, on or off eBay, since it legitimately broke, and the insurance was paid. Pay him immediately, and move on.
If he agrees to return the lamp, pay him to pack, and issue a call tag from DHL to pick it up.
posted on October 2, 2007 07:28:04 AM new
In all probability, he doesn't know if it's repairable or not. He doesn't want to deal with it. Most likely, he's discarded the packing material months ago.It's not his fault it's broken, it's the shipper's or shipping company. That's why you buy insurance. Don't make him the bad guy or hold him hostage to receiving the insurance.
posted on October 2, 2007 09:49:57 AM new
Fluffy what happened to "I'd have him return it at his expense and once you get it back, refund his money."
First of all it is DHL that requires an estimate of repair or total lost - not me! He would not or could not do that and that's why I was surprised that DHL paid. DHL (or any other shipper) always requires the receiver to keep all the packing materials so he still has everything. It was DHL that took so long with the claim as well - I called every week for the last 3 weeks and kept him informed.
I'm going to ask him to return the lamp at my expense and send him the refund regardless.
posted on October 2, 2007 11:02:19 AM newFluffy what happened to "I'd have him return it at his expense and once you get it back, refund his money."
I changed my mind.
I was following the PayPal model, as Claude suggested. But I thought about it some more and realized that PayPal isn't just unfair to sellers, it's unfair to buyers too.
posted on October 2, 2007 11:52:24 AM new
You got paid now you have 160 bucks that belongs to the customer. You cannot legally withhold that money in exchange for the lamp. That money in legal terms is intended to make the customer whole again. The busted lamp and the 160 bucks belong to the customer mail them their check and move on.
posted on October 2, 2007 02:00:21 PM new
I ship USPS, usually priority. When an item is broken in transit, the customer must bring the item to the PO. The PO keeps the item if they pay the insurance. I assume they throw these things out, but neither the buyer nor the seller keeps the broken item once the claim has been paid.
posted on October 2, 2007 03:09:53 PM new
Let's try this one more time, using Common Law.
Buyer might have his $160.00 (which you currently hold). However, you do not have the item he sent you $160.00 as payment for. Nor, do you have the $160.00 (which you must return to the Buyer).
At your expense, you should ask Buyer to return the item to you. And, then return the $160.00 to him. Otherwise, Buyer would have no reason to return the item to you.
Then, Buyer would be made whole with his money returned, and you would be made whole (minus expenses, and diminished value) with your lamp returned. Otherwise, if as you state, the lamp is repairable, Buyer would be enriched by the addition of a free lamp.
posted on October 2, 2007 03:13:01 PM new
Bill - Ladyj has $320 right now - $160 from buyer and $160 from DHL. She is no more entitled to that lamp than the buyer. (Not to mention that buyer has had to wait MONTHS for a refund while Ladyj has had use of the $160.)
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posted on October 2, 2007 03:14:31 PM new
Bill, Lady has $320 - $160 the customer sent her, $160 DHL sent her. DHL is the only one entitled to the lamp. Ooops! Neglus is a faster typist than I am!
[ edited by pixiamom on Oct 2, 2007 03:15 PM ]
posted on October 2, 2007 03:30:46 PM new
Well, well, well ... I missed that. Yikes, both parties are lucky that I am not representing them. I guess that is what happens when you retire.
In that case, Lady does not need the lamp returned. Send the buyer his money and move on.
posted on October 2, 2007 03:59:12 PM new
"buyer has had to wait MONTHS for a refund while Ladyj has had use of the $160"
Wait a minute - I just got the refund yesterday. Again the wait was not my fault. That's just life on the Internet.
I promise I'm not trying to steal the poor buyer money!! I started this post to see what was the fair thing to do - not get pistol whipped for asking.
Bye Bye
posted on October 2, 2007 04:08:57 PM new
You could always ask the buyer to return the lamp to you so that you could repair it, resell it and split the proceeds with the buyer.
[ edited by max40 on Oct 2, 2007 04:09 PM ]
posted on October 2, 2007 04:18:58 PM new
I didn't mean to pistol whip you LadyJ! I know you are good and honest seller!!
I understand that you didn't get the money until yesterday and didn't mean to imply you were the cause of the delay. I just think that the buyer has been pretty patient (of course we don't know what kind of emails he has sent but you didn't mention that he had given you a hard time or neg FB so that much is patient) and probably isn't a scammer - probably more lazy than anything else. I don't blame him - I am basically lazy too and see where he's coming from.
I just don't see how you have any leverage in getting the lamp back from him. Maybe if you make it very easy for him...but even then I don't think you can hold the refund pending receipt of the item.
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posted on October 2, 2007 04:22:54 PM new
If I received a broken item, I would want my money back. I would be happy to return the item to the seller if it was easy to do. A lamp is unwieldy. If you truly want it back, why not ask the buyer to package it up,send a call tag for pick-up and pay the buyer $20.00 for his trouble? Or, ask the buyer to take it to UPS, have them package it up and send it you? And still send him $20.00 for transporting it to UPS.
Then send him the refund, otherwise he has no incentive to return it to you. However, the expense you incur in getting it back may not be worth it.
posted on October 2, 2007 04:31:45 PM new
Just to confuse matters more,
Bought ink for my printer and they were leaking so I called the company and they said, we can't return your money till you return the ink and then it takes 2 weeks to process the credit. So I had to buy 2 more ink cartridges and lay out 55.00 more. Never bought from this company again.
Bought an item from a well known store and called to say item was not working,,,,,they said no problem we will send you another and just throw the broken item away.
I Sold a machine on ebay buyer said it wasn't working right So I returned there full purchase price but asked them to send the machine back at my expense, in this case I asked for it back because I didn't know if it was really true or not. But when a buyer sends me a photo showing the broken part I always say keep it, and then return there money.
There are many choices but you need to find what works for you, as for me I would let them keep it and return the money and forget about it. It may be too much trouble for them to ship it back to you.
posted on October 2, 2007 04:36:19 PM new
IMHO, if the lamp had not been broken, the transaction would be over.You got paid, he got his lamp. The lamp was damaged, you got paid, he got his money back. If the lamp arrived safely, you would be happy with the $160. So I say, again IMHO, close the book on this one. You have your money, he has his refund, end of story.
posted on October 2, 2007 06:13:23 PM new
Ladyjewels, send him the insurance refund and be done with it. Then you will have both been paid for the broken lamp.
If he is willing to send the lamp back, pay for the shipping or just forget it, let it go and let him keep the broken lamp, and try not to stress out about it anymore.
I am sure you are a great seller, and if the cost of running a successful Ebay business is a broken lamp once in a while, that's not bad.
If it were me, I would send him the insurance money, and let him keep the lamp and
on to bigger and better things.
