posted on October 16, 2007 01:11:30 PM new
I thought I would share this email I just received with everyone. I bought 32 pounds of USPS Souvenir Pages, using my buyer's ID. The item clearly stated, more than once, s/h of $35.00 by First Class mail, with insurance. The s/h seemed reasonable because of the size of the order (I did not know the weight).
The items arrived poorly packed in a single box, shipped by MEDIA MAIL. The PayPal label had the shipping price masked. After measuring the box and finding the weight on the label, I was able to determine a shipping cost of $12.67. Insurance was not purchased. I was overcharged $22.33.
Of course I complained to buyer. Here is his return email to me -
"Good Luck, The item Desc says shipping and handling... So from a contract standpoint you do not have a foot to stand on. Why are you complaining you got a great collection and received it fast, so move on and enjoy it. If you wanted to #*!@ about $35.00 S&H you should not have bought the item and let someone else buy it. If you are going to do this I will block you from my auctions. Leave me a negative I dont care, I will leave one bach however. I am a good person doing a good business here. With all overhead List Fees Pay Pal Item Cost, Employees to pack, I made a whopping $16.00 on this item, so before you cut down the hard working people of America with your cheap ways, realize there is more to a picture than meets the eye. Have a great day and please stop pestering me."
I paid by credit card, as I maintain a zero balance in my PayPal buying account. Rather than play games with PayPal, I turned the matter over to my credit card company.
posted on October 16, 2007 04:40:27 PM new
Do I ever hope you win this one, what a creep. One bit of fraud was insurance paid & not received, point that out along with the bogus media mail.
I did a chargeback with a CC & won. Only question my CC asked was...what was the return policy. There was none, that's why I won. Since postage was also charged to my CC I got that back too.
I returned the items, pure junk for 325.00
posted on October 16, 2007 05:54:09 PM new
His shipping and handling terms were misstated. The guy deserves a chargeback. I'm sure you weren't rude in your email to him and didn't deserve a rude reply.
posted on October 16, 2007 07:11:20 PM new
He can always self-insure; I do this often. Insurance should mean that if the item is lost or damaged, the buyer will be reimbursed. Full stop.
The guy sounds like a jackass, and he probably wouldn't reimburse, but that's piling on.
He said first-class mail and shipped it Media Mail. Insurance is simply a diversion from the salient point.
posted on October 16, 2007 07:17:19 PM new
fluff - in an email which was before the one I posted, he states -
"You cannot send anything over 13 ounces First Class Mail. If I sent it priority it would have been $66.00, and I did purchase $200.00 insurance through Paypal."
He did not choose to send by Parcel Post which would have been $30.
However, when I go to Shipment Information on PayPal -
Service Type: Media MailŪ (2-9 days)
Package Size: Package/Thick Envelope
Mailing Date: Oct. 9, 2007
Signature Confirmation: No
Display Postage Value on Label: No
Shipping Insurance: No
I just want my $22.33 back. My CC has an option to seek refund for overcharge. I chose that option.
posted on October 16, 2007 07:42:16 PM new
Okay, so it sounds like he made a mistake in specifying First Class in this auction. I've done that before, listed an auction as a relist of a previous one and not changed some fields that needed to be changed. The $35 shipping was clearly a guesstimate.
Just a hypothetical here, but what if he had contacted you before shipping and said, "Geez, I really screwed this up, it's going to cost $66 to send it Priority Mail, what do you want me to do?" In retrospect, that would have been his wisest course, I think.
I don't think he's a bad seller, I just think he's a seller who doesn't know much about postal rates and weights. Only 1100 or so feedback, as I understand it.
posted on October 16, 2007 07:56:13 PM new
OK Fluff, if you made a mistake in shipping charges, would you have answered as he did?
[ edited by pixiamom on Oct 16, 2007 07:56 PM ]
posted on October 16, 2007 09:17:12 PM new
He could have sent the items by Parcel Post, which cost $30, and kept the $5.00 difference. Or, he could have kept $7.00 for himself and refunded me $15. He decided to keep all the extra money.
The only cost for supplies in this instance was a box. All the pages were in cheap everyday albums and were placed within the box with no other packing.
Fortunately, I had a feeling that this guy might not insure, so I insured the shipment myself through my account with U-PIC.
posted on October 16, 2007 11:48:41 PM new
That isn't even an item that can be shipped Media Mail. Yes, Media Mail can be insured.
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posted on October 17, 2007 08:33:47 AM new
I'm on the Seller's side on this one - he made a mistake in choosing first class mail as the shipping option - it should have shown up as an error if that's what he specified on the listing page. The seller sounds frustrated, as many of us are, with rising Ebay & Paypal fees, rising postal charges and falling selling prices.
Granted his rant was uncalled for, but I certainly understand it. As for the insurance issue, he probably self-insured or could have used DSI, therefore it would not be marked as insured.
If you feel you received a decent deal with the overall cost of this item, I would let it alone - I think you are nit-picking and over-reacting. In fact, this is part of the reason I stopped selling items that I think will sell for under $50 - it's not worth the hassle.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Caroline
posted on October 17, 2007 08:59:52 AM new
So if we are frustrated over rising fees and postal increases, it's okay to send non-media items via Media Mail and if the buyer objects to being on the receiving end of a lie, it's just nitpicking on their part?
Wow! Cool! Sign me up. No more Priority Mail for me.
posted on October 17, 2007 09:40:47 AM new
I'm not sure I'm on the seller's side, really, but I can relate.
He made a mistake and then he made an error in judgment by not contacting Bill before shipping.
If you ask me (and you didn't), eBay is going about the "try to make it more fun for bidders" initiative all wrong. Oh, it's all very well to put a Bid button at the top of the auction, and to mess up Search so that no one can find anything anymore. I even got email this morning, directed at a buyer ID I don't use any more, advising me that I have a special eBay customer support phone number I can use any time I need help buying on eBay. Plus, eBay was kind enough to let me know that they will be proactively calling me (meaning, this bidder ID) if they even imagine I'm having a problem with a transaction.
But as I say, they're going about it all wrong. What would make eBay a much more pleasant place to hang out and shop would be if they'd stop their War on Sellers. Pick an auction at random, any auction. Odds are the TOS is so full of draconian conditions -- born of the seller's frustration with the way he's forced to do business -- that it's a real drag to read. Everybody wants to see smart, cute, funny auctions...and no one has the energy or spirit to craft them any more.
posted on October 17, 2007 09:49:03 AM new
When you say, in your auction, First Class shipping insured that's what you do. Do your homework & get it right or suffer the consequences.
A good & honest seller does not change terms to pass his mistakes on to the buyer & then reply to a complaint by accusing him of having "cheap ways & pestering him"
Bill, I wouldn't exchange negs with this guy. Put your efforts into working it out with your CC company.
posted on October 17, 2007 10:34:47 AM new
It seems to me that the biggest "mistake" the seller made was sending the item Media Mail. This type of item doesn't qualify for "Media Mail", does it?
The fact that he used USPS ILLEGALLY puts him at fault in the transaction. Ignorance of USPS regs on media mail is not a good defense.
I get furious whenever I receive something shipped Media Mail that doesn't qualify for that type of shipping. Heck if some sellers get away with using it - why not all? I don't think you are being nit-picky at all, Bill.
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posted on October 17, 2007 11:02:55 AM newHeck if some sellers get away with using it - why not all? I don't think you are being nit-picky at all, Bill.
So it's about a grudge?
I once received some beads shipped in a cut-down PM video mailer that was put inside a cut-down (to eliminate the PM markings) Tyvek bag. Should I have negged her for that?
At this point I think the smartest thing the seller could do is insist on providing a full refund if the item is returned. From what I've seen of these postal souvenir sheet auctions, Bill got a terrific deal.
posted on October 17, 2007 11:18:44 AM new
No it's not about a grudge at all. It's about being "a good person doing a good business here".
Good people do not abuse their buyers or the postal system. Good people play by the rules. I don't know what kind of a deal Bill got because I don't know his buying id, but it shouldn't matter. The seller said he'd ship first class - his mistake because USPS doesn't have first class for that weight class. Now the seller has two choices - Parcel Post (he has collected enough money in shipping to more than cover PP) or Priority (he hasn't collected enough money evidently to cover priority shipping). Evidently he instead gets greedy and decides to illegally ship Media Mail so he can pocket a few bucks more in shipping/handling. He's not a "good person doing a good business". He's not even a poor schmuck who made a mistake. He made the kind of choice that a "good seller" does not make. Sellers making bad choices hurt all of the sellers trying to make good ones.
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posted on October 17, 2007 11:36:09 AM new
I don't think anyone claimed he's a good person or a good seller.
Sellers making bad choices hurt all of the sellers trying to make good ones.
And apparently eBay is listening to arguments like that, so you've nothing to worry about. They've got their big rake out and they're weeding the bottom 20%. So maybe the Stars system works after all, eh?
posted on October 17, 2007 11:55:21 AM new
The seller claimed to be "good": I am a good person doing a good business here. With all overhead List Fees Pay Pal Item Cost, Employees to pack,.."
Bring out the violins. Ebay is tough these days.
I think the DSR Star Ratings are a disaster and will do nothing more than make eBay LOOK like Amazon - you can't determine so many different echelons of sellers within such a narrow range. Something is faulty in the system. They have to go back to the drawing board - redefine the stars, ask buyers to rate different things, whatever. Statistics for statistics sake mean....absolutely NOTHING! And I DO have something to worry about with the $^(%(^_ ~ stars because I am below Median in one area and above it in none.
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posted on October 17, 2007 01:20:42 PM new
How I look at it is like this........if the selling price plus the shipping cost equals the amount that I feel is what I want to spend for this item then I bid. What the seller does with money left over dose not bother me since I feel I paid the total price I was willing to pay.
Lets say the bid price was higher and the shipping price lower when you add both together you get the total your willing to spend for this item, so to me what is the difference how it was split up. You paid what you felt was a good price but when you saw how much less shipping was now your not happy with what you paid, why is that?.....
If I paid what I thought was a reasonable price for an item (bid price & shipping cost) all I care about is receiving the item in good condition, case closed.
posted on October 17, 2007 01:40:03 PM new
I think as you expect to receive the item as described you should also expect shipping & insurance as described.
He's very defensive in his reply because he knows he did the wrong thing.
posted on October 17, 2007 01:43:47 PM new
Toni,
I agree with you.
The seller is just another overworked and underpaid Ebay seller,I would just move on,if you dont like his business practice,neg him and dont buy from him in the future!
Bill,
He said he made 16 dollars and you want 15 back,if so,he would make just one dollar?
Good luck on your chargeback,have you returned the item yet?
You can get back at him by shipping media mail as well.
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Lets all stop whining !
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[ edited by hwahwa on Oct 17, 2007 01:48 PM ]
posted on October 17, 2007 02:39:44 PM new
If I buy something that is supposed to come first class, insured. It needs to come that way, period. Anything else is not completing the contract.
Bill completed his part of the contract but the seller did not. When given the opportunity to say, whoops, my bad let me refund you the difference, he didn't.
That was stupid. He violated the terms of the contract. Very simple.
And, fluffy, I got one of those emails on a buyer id too. So, if anyone needs an 800 number for ebay let me know and I will post it here. Don't even know if it would be useful.
Beth
Caroline 