posted on August 5, 2008 09:12:35 AM
I mailed a package using the ebay/paypal system, which gives the address posted on the account. The package shows leaving the philly post office, but the postal service shows no other records of the package, but they did show it in philly.
The customer did NOT insure package. The package has not been recieved. Paypal put a hold on the money, saying they wanted proof of delivery. I do not have proof of delivery, but I have proof it went through the philly post office. They said that that is not enough. What gives, are we responsible for the postal service?
Once I turn it over to them, and there is proof they recieved it, have I not "Done my job" and am free of responsibility?
What are the rules. I keep getting canned messages that the package has not been "delivered" and they will not take the hold off until they get proof of delivery.
What gives, they KNOW the packaged was shipped using the registered address and has been through the philly post office.
The customer has said he will file a none delivery on friday.
All I get from pay pal and ebay is the run around.
posted on August 5, 2008 09:28:38 AM
You are not responsible for the USPS but if the customer paid with PayPal and you can not prove delivery with a DC scan, yes, PP will take the money from your account and return it to the buyer.
posted on August 5, 2008 09:34:03 AM
How long has it been since you shipped?
How did you ship? (Priority, Parcel, 1st, Media Mail, etc)
Does the buyer's feedback (left and received) indicate any previous problems of this nature?
"The customer did NOT insure package."
It's not up to them to insure. It's up to you. You are responsible for safe delivery. You can require that they purchase insurance but ultimately insurance is for your protection, not theirs.
posted on August 5, 2008 11:25:51 AM
Jack , I have had a run of these problems this month. You did not say when the package was mailed but you do have some options here.
since the package is showing in the USPS system, contact the USPS and tell them you have a package stuck in Philly. they will contact your local postmaster who should give you a call back and track it down.
Even though the PO says they do not provide tracking for DC, when you have proof that they have it in their system, they will investigate.
I just had a 1st class package tracked down that was mailed july 12th and did not show any further updates past the bulk mailing center on the 14th. customer is claiming non-receipt. I called the 800 # on the usps website, asked where the package was, received a call from my local po the next day and the package info was posted to the tracking site the next week.
Be sure to get a claim number and log it into the PayPal dispute.
If the package still does not surface, file a stolen mail claim with the US postal inspectors office. It appears that post masters do not like to see these claims because everytime I have filed one, I get some serious service.
I also let the buyer know that I will file a Stolen Mail FRAUD claim and refund their money at the end of 30 days if their package has not been located. This lets them know you are doing something and often the buyer majically finds their package before the post office does.
posted on August 5, 2008 02:59:53 PM
When this happens to me I file a theft report but first let the recipient know that I am going to do so.
I also fax the postal carrier a letter describing the package, dc number and that recipient says he did not receive it.
I am amazed at what postal carriers remember.
The link to file the vandalism/rifled/theft of mail is:
https://www.usps.com/postalinspectors/mailthft/default.htm
When I let the customer know that I am going to file the theft and notify his postal carrier, and assure him that I plan to give him a full refund, the packages HAVE ALWAYS shown up.
posted on August 5, 2008 04:07:18 PM
The answer to whether you're "responsible" can be simplified to: "Yes" - as others have mentioned, you might not be technically liable for their efforts, if you accept either PayPal or a credit card for payment, you are responsible that the buyer receives their purchase in the condition they bought it.
If it gets mangled by the service you use (USPS) to get it to them, you're going to be on the receiving end of a chargeback or PayPal claim.
It might not be fair, but it is what it is.
Wayne
Never explain -- Your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe you anyway.
~ Elbert Hubbard
posted on August 5, 2008 04:16:50 PM
I had a package that the tracking number was put into the system but after point one it never got scanned at any other locations that it was delivered to. So I also had no way of tracking this for my buyer who contacted me saying they never received the package.
They didn't put insurance on it but I paid for it to be insured so I let the buyer know that if it didn't show up we will make a clam because I paid for insurance since I didn't want to pay out of pocket if it got lost.
The next day the buyer said she received her package. Which I was happy about.
But what I think is happening at this time of year is that the regular workers are taking vacations and the stand in delivery people are not scanning the package like they are told to do.
A seller is responsible for the package reaching the buyer even though we hand it over to the USPS it is still up to us to either deliver a package or pay for it's loss
posted on August 5, 2008 04:48:35 PM
DC is only good if it is delivered and scanned. If you have a DC and it shows as not delivered, the only way you can get your funds is if you insured the item.
I have had items delivered to me that were meant for another person. In that case since the postal carrier scanned it as "delivered" you would have proof of delivery, but the person who paid for the item would never have received it. (I did deliver the items to the proper addresses myself.)I had someone's economic stimulus check misdelivered to my house!!
We are at the mercy of the shipping carriers, no matter who you use.
posted on August 5, 2008 07:12:59 PM
golly, I appreciate all the response to my post. I will try to figure out what happened using the methods you guys suggest.
I am surprised that they will pull the funds back. I was operating under the assumption that once I turn it over to the carrier, unless the buyer insured it, My side of the bargain was done. This idea of no bad feedback to buyers is a pile of shitt. This could destroy ebay. Once the scammers go into full swing, this is going to be a disaster.
There is some protection against some of the "less than professional" scammers. If you file claims of missing mail - you can request the US Postal Inspectors investigate and they're a formidable group (when they get involved).
Screwing around with the USPS is a significant crime - and saying you didn't get something when you did, can cause heartache and potential criminal problems. It could be considered mail fraud.
And, when their local police department makes a call to them checking on a report they received - those petty scammers will realize you're serious about finding that damn package...
Wayne
Never explain -- Your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe you anyway.
~ Elbert Hubbard
posted on August 5, 2008 09:46:50 PM
vintageads4u wrote: When I let the customer know that I am going to file the theft and notify his postal carrier, and assure him that I plan to give him a full refund, the packages HAVE ALWAYS shown up.
This has also been my experience, particularly with buyers that are overly keen to open a PayPal dispute before allowing reasonable time for their package to turn up. Until recently, I could always point them to our 100% positive feedback (alas long since destroyed by the new eBay "are you really sure you want to leave positive feedback" guidelines to buyers).
I also have noticed a much higher incidence of "lost" or "missing" shipments where PayPal is involved, compared to sales paid for by bank transfer, check or money order. Fortunately the vast majority of items miraculously turn up on the buyer's door step the moment I suggest we have their local Postal Authorities or Police involved.
LtRay wrote: I also let the buyer know that I will file a Stolen Mail FRAUD claim and refund their money at the end of 30 days if their package has not been located. This lets them know you are doing something and often the buyer magically finds their package before the post office does.
My experience has been much the same. I'm happy to refund in full on return of a signed, dated affidavit which has in bold next to the signature, It is a Federal crime to make a fraudulent claim... (or similar dire warnings for other countries). Many of the international Postal Organizations have a similar policy and it seems to work well for them in weeding out fraudulent claims.
Remember - Marta Stewart didn't go to jail for insider trader. She got nailed for making a false statement under oath i.e. perjury.
posted on August 6, 2008 06:02:04 AM
lol must be the post office ....I just checked the DC on one of my packages I mailed Monday and this is what it said
posted on August 6, 2008 09:08:37 PM
lol pmelcher thats what I said, thankfully it got delivered today so I don't have to worry about it but if the buyer would have looked at it and saw 2002 I'm sure they would have been concerned.
posted on August 7, 2008 05:56:43 AM
I think that actually registering the package as lost/stolen on the Postal Inspector's web site helps find the package. Some of you may remember that I had about 10 packages go missing for up to 3 weeks last Christmas. Everyone eventually showed up.
My CO for the local PO is in Rotary with me and he says they are really being hounded concerning scanning items the min. they enter the post office even if they cannot be delivered until the next day.
So, it may show as delivered but still be in the post office or on the truck.
Percent scanned is one of the metrics by which the local POs are being judged. Do not have any idea how this impacts the local PO.
Beth
posted on August 7, 2008 09:48:30 PM
/i/My experience has been much the same. I'm happy to refund in full on return of a signed, dated affidavit which has in bold next to the signature, It is a Federal crime to make a fraudulent claim... (or similar dire warnings for other countries). Many of the international Postal Organizations have a similar policy and it seems to work well for them in weeding out fraudulent claims./i/
Is this for claims with DC? Do you think it would work for a package I sent without DC? I have a receipt but no tracking #.
posted on August 8, 2008 07:31:03 AM
This has been particularly a problem for me with international packages, they very rarely are scanned in the receiving country. For a time, they were not even being scanned anywhere! After complaining to my Post Office and to the area manager, it has gotten much better. Post Offices are now being told they MUST scan everything that looks remotely like it could be scanned.
I've had the same issue with a Paypal claim, I've only heard of one non-receipt claim that was won by the seller when the buyer didn't purchase insurance. They were given the option to refuse insurance and did not do so - that should be your defense. It may or may not work. Very frustrating, I feel your pain.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Caroline
Caroline