posted on October 17, 2008 07:57:50 AM
Well, I had a dispute closed and just received notification that the bidder is sending the item back.
Auction states the item is as-is, no refunds, no exchanges. Paypal negates it when the bidder files a Item Not as Described. Paypal makes you jump through relentless hoops to dispute it, only to find out it really doesn't matter what you do.
I called Paypal to inquire, spoke with an agent who understood my concern about my listing and the subsequent refund. She forwarded my call to a supervisor who told me Paypal WILL ALWAYS favor the bidder no matter what terms you made with the bidder outside of Paypal.
My concern, is that this is a vintage sweater and I have a bad feeling that the buyer washed it incorrectly and it shrunk. There is no other way to explain their claim that my measurements were off by 4 inches on the sleeve.
posted on October 17, 2008 09:11:37 AM
I just did something that I was actually a bit surprised I was able to do on this. Since Paypal refunded the payment back to the bidder, I was able to retract the "Item Paid" status on ebay, and then filed a NPB dispute.
I don't know what will come of it, but as far as I am concerned the bidder has not paid for the item since they were refunded the payment and I have no payment on my end.
posted on October 17, 2008 10:03:20 AM
Was the claim closed? I have a couple of pending claims where the payment is being held because buyers claim it has not arrived, and I am wondering if I can do the same thing.
posted on October 17, 2008 01:33:59 PM
paypal closed the claim and notified the buyer to return the item. As for your claims that the bidder says did not arrive, I would say just complete the tracking info and you should be covered.
posted on October 17, 2008 03:05:45 PM
So did they refund the money before you got the item back? Did the buyer provide tracking or something? If not, how does paypal know that they will send it back?
I don't even want to think what this Christmas will be like. I'm just glad that most buyer are honest, because paypal is a breeding ground for crooks now with the new ebay rules.
posted on October 17, 2008 05:08:12 PM
I had one a couple of weeks ago, that was over 2 months old. Buyer said that the credit card payment was unauthorised, yet she sent feedback, and even sent me an email saying she had bid and received the items. But, because we don't have tracking numbers on lettermail or small packages in Canada, I lost. I guess anyone can decide at a later date their payment was unauthorized, and just get their payment back!
posted on October 17, 2008 05:45:49 PM
For those of you who have been ripped off, do not take this laying down. Find the contact information for the law enforment agency in the buyers town and file theft charges. It is the only way to get this type of activity stopped.
While you are at it, the USPS Postal Inspector has a website for filing mail theft charges. USE it. http://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/ You may not get your money back but if enough charges get filed, the bad guys get locked up.
I pursued one of these claims a few years back. I documented everything that had occured between myself and the customer then shared the records with PayPal and the police. It took more than 6 months but PayPal deposited the funds back to my account. Seems the buyer had used a stolen credit card and with my shipping records, police had no trouble locating him.
posted on October 17, 2008 07:33:33 PM
What I received was a notice from Paypal that the bidder had sent back the item via Fed Ex.
The thing is that the supervisor at Paypal was the one who brought up the fact that even though I may have a "no-return" policy in my auction, Paypal's policy trumps mine no matter what (this was already quite obvious since they already authorized the bidder to return the item).
But, I figure, since Paypal removed the funds from my account, I have not been actually paid for the auction where there is a "no-refund" policy.
The bidder has left me negative feedback already, so no loss there, and to boot they sent me a "I told you so" email this morning trying to rub it in, which goes to show just how bad this really is.
I decided not to reply to the bidder (though I really want to go off on the moron). I signed onto ebay, changed the status of the payment to "unpaid" since I don't have the money (and as of this day, no item), then filed a NPB Dispute.
The bidder can deal with the headache at this point. He can go call or email ebay and complain all he wants, but in the end he did not read the description properly, and he ignored the "no refunds/no exchange policy" I had set forth in the auction. Ebay does not require sellers to have a refund policy, though mine is clearly stated as NO REFUNDS.
If the moron wants to push it further, then I will have my attorney send him a bill based on the fact he agreed to the terms of the auction and didn't pay for it. Maybe I'll make the news. LOL... ok, this last paragraph is extreme... or is it???
posted on October 17, 2008 09:39:42 PM
The logic goes like this -Since he wins the dispute of item not as described,then this is not the item which fits the description in your auction page, he has no use of the item,so the right thing to do is to return the item.
If he uses another excuse say buyer remorse or gift recipient is now his ex girlfriend ,then your no return policy may stick.
*
Economic Reform act of Chairman Obama of the socialist States of America :
10 ounces of meat per month,half a yard of cotton per year per adult.
Hellilujah!
posted on October 17, 2008 11:55:40 PM
Shagi, it is the "I gotcha thing" that ticked me off enough to go after my first scammer and everyone of them that has slithered out of the woodwork since then.
I don't mind working with someone if I make a mistake but if they try to take me for a fool it just plain ticks me off. I don't get mad often but when I do ... Heaven help 'em.
[ edited by LtRay on Oct 18, 2008 01:18 AM ]
posted on October 18, 2008 08:13:14 AM
They responded to my dispute claiming I am mad that I lost the dispute. I'm not mad. I just didn't get paid, so I have closed the dispute so that I can get my FVF back. If that leaves a big pile of doo for the bidder to deal with, then so be it.
Their biggest complaint on the auction was the sleeve length. They claimed it was 4 inches shorter than what was stated. 4 inches!!! How would I miss 4 inches when I double checked the measurements on this item??? Come on now. I've been doing this for too long to miss 4 inches.
Either the idiot washed the item or wanted to fold the cuff up and lost the length they wanted. Either way, I will be photographing the sweater when it arrives showing the measurements with a tape and forwarding them to Paypal. Paypal needs to know how bidders are abusing their system and screwing over sellers. I lost my shipping fees on this too, not just the cost of the auction.
posted on October 18, 2008 08:20:09 AM
I think Paypal will let the seller get his $$ back if the bidder returns merchandise not in original condition.
If you show Paypal the sleeves have been shortened and have pictures before and after to prove it,it may work!
*
Economic Reform act of Chairman Obama of the socialist States of America :
10 ounces of meat per month,half a yard of cotton per year per adult.
Hellilujah!
posted on October 18, 2008 10:37:46 AM
Actually HWA,
That might be wishful thinking. A few months ago I sent a group of books to a buyer, and he filed a bogus "Not as Described" claim against me with Paypal. After Paypal took 10 days to "moderate" the claim and listen to my side of the story, they still sided with the buyer (who had 0 feedback by the way, while I've been on Ebay for 10+ years). They told the buyer that if he returned all the merchandise, with delivery confirmation, he got all of his money back, including the postage cost to get the books to him originally.
Well, guess what...he returns some of the merchandise (kept about half of the books I sent to him), and just because he put delivery confirmation on the box, Paypal gave him ALL of his money back. So let me get this straight...I (A 10 year+ seller with 99.9% positive feeback) can put delivery confirmation on a package, and the buyer (a 0-feedback scam artist) can make up any story he wants about the items being "not as described," and will get all of his money back even if he takes a dump in a box and puts delivery confirmation on the box when he sends it back??
Let's just say the Paypal rep. I talked to get a real earful when I called them up and raised cain about it. He was polite and gave me all of the money back in my account, but the money came out of Paypal's pocket, and he refused to take it out of the buyer's account, as it should have been. He begged me not to press the issue any further, because he told me the buyer would "get in a lot of trouble" about scamming me for half the items. I finally just dropped it, because I had my money back, and it was for a small amount (about $20). But the principle of the thing just infuriated me.
The Bottom Line: You can be a top-notch, highly decorated, long-time patron of both Ebay and Paypal, but your reputation and delivery confirmation don't mean jack squat to Paypal. However, delivery confirmation means the world to them if it's a returned item from a scam artist on a fraudulently disputed transaction. As you can tell, I'm still not over it. Thank goodness it wasn't a dispute over some really expensive stuff.
posted on October 18, 2008 10:59:20 AM
I said she MAY get her money back,I am not Paypal and she has not received the sweater back yet.
*
Economic Reform act of Chairman Obama of the socialist States of America :
10 ounces of meat per month,half a yard of cotton per year per adult.
Hellilujah!
posted on October 18, 2008 12:32:46 PM
I will gladly remove the FVF when the item is returned and it is in the "original" condition I sent it in (not shrunken, altered, etc), as well as I can confirm their claim that my measurements are off. This will be the 3rd time I will have measured it.
If I am still correct I will consider this matter closed on this bidder and keep the dispute closed as unpaid. If ebay wants to remove the FVF and NPB Warning from the bidder, then that is up to them.
For the "rub it in" email they sent and the fact I don't have payment, they can deal with the problem in the meantime.
