posted on May 7, 2009 01:03:03 PM new
I have a nice piece of old Navajo jewelry which of course is unmarked. Ebay says I have to name the artist. Does that mean I can't list it or that I can't say it's Navajo? I'm 100% sure it is Navajo so should I take a chance?
posted on May 7, 2009 02:28:08 PM new
You have to know the name of the artist and be able to ID the tribe in order to list it in NA category. I wouldn't risk it. They get pulled fairly quickly.
posted on May 7, 2009 05:43:45 PM new
That is a shame. I'll list it as follows and take Navajo out all together - I hope that makes the ebay police happy. I won't, however, lower the price. I'll wear it first.
posted on May 7, 2009 06:47:35 PM new
I think you have to list the artist only if it was made after 1935.
When you list something under Native American, a pop up comes up and relays this information.
posted on May 7, 2009 07:54:05 PM new
If Native American appears anywhere in the title, the warning will pop-up, regardless of category. I resented this at first but grudgingly researched a native Alaskan artist postcard before listing. It turns out that the prolific artist wasn't native at all, loosely borrowed Intuit motifs, and is highly resented by the native population. I can more appreciate Ebay's sensitivity to this, to protect buyers and sellers of Native American made goods.
posted on May 8, 2009 05:22:13 AM new
True most pieces are marked now but older pieces can be marked with symbols, names - letters or no mark at all. I'm sure there was some very nice quality Navajo jewelry made in the 40's, 50's and 60's that was never marked as well.
I wish I knew the age but I don't so I've re-worded everything to exclude Native American and Navajo. I'm posting a photo here hoping that an expert will come along and help me date it.
[ edited by ebabestreasures on May 8, 2009 05:23 AM ]
[ edited by ebabestreasures on May 8, 2009 05:24 AM ]
[ edited by ebabestreasures on May 8, 2009 05:30 AM ]
posted on May 8, 2009 07:18:13 AM new
My grandfathers used to take excess rams up to the rez and trade for jewelery, rugs, pottery etc.I haven't sold any jewelry on Ebay, but am surprised to hear that an artist must be listed in order to post. A pesky but understandable rule. I have a lot of pieces dating from the 1890's to the 1970's that aren't signed, most in fact aren't. I've seen modern pieces that aren't signed too. Quite often when someone is learning the craft they won't sign their early pieces.
That piece is pretty gaudy, which in my guestimate puts it in the 60's thru the 80's. Some real nightmarish pieces came out of that time frame. It's no doubt Navajo.
I'd just list it as a vintage turquoise and coral silver bolo tie.
I know of lots of fakes dating back to at least the 1940's, and the Japanese have recently developed a machine process that so completely duplicates the Hopi Overlay technique that it's virtually impossible to tell the difference. There was a Japanese fellow a few years ago at Santa Fe Indian Market who had taken it upon himself to go around to all the artists and show them examples of these fakes and warn them that they had some very stiff and sneaky competition. All the fakes were stamped with what appeared to be Hopi clan signs, which is often how Hopi smiths sign their pieces.
posted on May 11, 2009 09:56:37 AM newIt's no doubt Navajo.
No doubt, really? I think about all you can say is that it's done in the Navajo style, which of course can be imitated. I have a gorgeous Navajo-style belt buckle in my store.
That large stone just does not look right. Maybe it's the photo.
posted on May 12, 2009 03:24:13 AM new
Back in the 80s,I bought a piece of NA jewelry from the Smithsonian gift catalog,it said it is genuine NA jewelry handmade by Indians,I dont remember the particular tribe but I trust Smithsonian kwows what they are talking about!
2 years later,Smithsonian wrote us and said these are machine made and offer to give us a discount or refund us in full if we return the item.
*
Economic Reform act of Chairman Obama of the socialist States of America :
10 ounces of meat per month,half a yard of cotton per year per adult.
Hellilujah!
posted on May 12, 2009 05:22:27 AM newExcerpt...This site explains the difficulty envolved in authenticating Navaho jewelery. This is just one paragraph!
QUOTE "We know of no person who can look at a piece of jewelry and say for a fact who made it, unless that person either witnessed it being made, or made it themselves. A bracelet, for example, cannot talk. A name engraved on it cannot talk. A "certificate" attached to it cannot talk. (Blank certificates, by the way, are for sale in jewelry supply shops - just fill them out, and there you have a "Certificate of Authenticity". We don't believe in using these.) Even though we have many, many years experience in buying and selling the type of jewelry seen on these pages, we do not, and can not, claim to know for an absolute fact who, how, or when it was made. Accordingly, we may indicate "Navajo", "Santo Domingo", "Hopi", "Zuni", or other such descriptions which means it is our belief that the piece being shown represents the style of a particular tribe as we know it. It does not mean that we are saying for a fact that it was made by any particular tribe. We are traders and do not claim mystic powers.
As Hwahwa pointed out, even the Smithsonian was fooled.
posted on May 12, 2009 06:12:32 AM new
Guess I shoulda said "if it's indian, it's no doubt Navajo". Jeez of course there's no way to tell if it's fake, especially from the photo. The stone doesn't bother me, turquoise can have heavy inclusions like that. The shiny center part makes me think it might be stabilized. Stabilized stones in the 60's-80's were often pretty crude, with the epoxy pretty obvious.
posted on May 12, 2009 07:53:30 AM new
I guess I should have said if it's NA it's Navajo as well.
The shiny center parts look like silver deposits to me. What would epoxy look like? I may try to test it to see if it's silver or not.
I did test the back and it tested sterling.
I personally think the stone is interesting but I realize it's not for the faint-hearted.
Thanks for the dating help - profe51.
posted on May 12, 2009 04:00:24 PM new
The epoxy would be clear to cloudy and colorless, sort of like left over glue. They used to dunk whole chunks of soft stone in it and then work the cabs down after it had hardened. It might at first seem like maybe quartz or some other colorless crystal inclusion. Modern stabilization techniques have improved greatly and nowdays it's real hard to tell.
I see the silvery chunks there in the matrix, but wasn't speaking of them. Just below that silvery chunk in the central part of the stone there are some reflections that I was thinking might be epoxy. It could just be your camera and my eyes of course.
