posted on September 1, 2009 08:24:20 AM
Ok, I'm in a quandry on the Insurance that eBay now has in place. It is no longer an option for buyers. But, is it still an option on the Vendio Invoice and can be automatically calculated, or even inserted by the buyer?
If not.... will buyers of items less than $500 be turned off without insurance included?
I plan to include it in my S&H on items over $500 but I'm not sure of buyer attitudes....
Thoughts????
posted on September 1, 2009 10:04:30 AM
I would like to add,is this just for domestic buyers?
Can we offer insurance to foreign buyers?
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There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
posted on September 1, 2009 10:23:36 AM
It's my understanding that insurance can't be mentioned at all.
So you can insure if you want to and you can pass it on by way of handling fees but you can't put that in your listing or your end of auction notices.
I'm sure Vendio will be dropping it as an option soon.
posted on September 1, 2009 11:15:06 AM
Here is chapter and verse of the NEW policy there is no mention of banning the use of the words:
"Optional buyer charges for shipping insurance removed: The insurance option creates the perception that buyers need to purchase shipping insurance as a protection on eBay, an experience they're not accustomed to on other ecommerce sites. In fact, sellers have always been responsible for their items until they arrive safely in their customers' hands. That's why shipping insurance will no longer be included in the purchase flow as either an option or requirement for buyers.
Of course you can choose to purchase insurance on shipments, but not ask buyers to buy insurance separately. In some categories like Antiques, Collectibles, and Jewelry, shipping insurance for sellers is essential. When appropriate, you can include the cost of insurance in your item or shipping price." eBay.
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JvK
posted on September 1, 2009 04:40:23 PM
But if we lump it into shipping,a message from Ebay will pop up-Attention seller,it seems your shipping charge is too high for the item you just listed,Bla bla bla.
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There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
posted on September 1, 2009 04:54:49 PM
Good Grief... I'm not sure legally, ebay can force "responsibility" on items once shipped. And we cannot claim the item is not insured. Yet, how can insurance be included prior to the known ending cost? I may be wrong but I think eBay is forcing the "end of auctions" and going to fixed pricing via "reserved" purchasing. The bottom of our line is shrinking....
--Peace
"Educators must incorporate the technology of today with a vision of the future for the youth of today" JvK
posted on September 1, 2009 06:08:33 PM
There is no way a seller can guarantee an item will not be broken or lost during shipping, sure we can give the buyer their money back, but, we cannot 'make them whole' in that the lost or broken item can be found or fixed. Short of taking the item in hand and driving, flying, etc to the buyer and directly handing it to them we can't guarantee it. Insurance can't really guarantee it either.
posted on September 1, 2009 06:36:33 PM
As a seller I have never asked for a buyer to pay insurance. I would include it in my shipping price and if I didn't included it in the shipping price and the item went for more then I thought it would I would always pay to insure it.
Insurance covers me as well as the buyer.
Many sellers use to state if you don't pay for insurance then they are not responsible if the item gets lost. I would never buy from a seller that made that statement.
So if I pay 300.00 for an item and it gets lost what should I say, oh well, crap like that happens, I feel it is up to the seller to cover themselves just in case that does happen and that would mean paying for Insurance if they don't want to take the lose themselves.
As a seller I always felt responsible if the item didn't arrive because it is up to the seller to insure the item if they don't want to pay for item if it gets lost.
It's not right if a buyer pays you money for an item and they don't receive it. Even though we know if might be the fault of the shipper but the seller is the one that is held responsible.
posted on September 1, 2009 07:39:28 PM
Tonimar, I agree completely.
"Good Grief... I'm not sure legally, ebay can force "responsibility" on items once shipped".
This is a seller's myth which I'm convinced started on eBay. On my history with mail orders from the 70's, if a buyer prepays shipping, the seller is always responsible for safe arrival. The only time a buyer is responsible for loss or damage in shipment is when the item is shipped freight collect. EBay and Paypal have always held the seller responsible for safe delivery. The admonitions that "we are not responsible for safe delivery, you must purchase insurance" have always been misguided and deceitful. Insurance for prepaid shipping items has always been on the shoulders of the shipper.
[ edited by pixiamom on Sep 1, 2009 09:04 PM ]
posted on September 2, 2009 03:28:42 AM
What I meant is even with insurance (which I will purchase on anything over $20.00 and not charge for it) we cannot guarantee the Post Office will not lose it or damage it. I, too, feel bad if something does not arrive and refund items under $20.00. The problem is getting the buyer to take the broken item back to the Post Office and make a claim, somehow they don't think they need to do that. I can't do that from my end as they always want to see the package to determine if it is their fault or not.
posted on September 2, 2009 04:14:16 AM
Ladyjewels,
as queenofcollectibles wrote,
What you can do:
You will still be able to insure your items.
You can fold the cost of insurance into your item price or handling fee.
You can indicate, ‘The item is insured” or “Handling fee includes insurance.”
Ladyjewels,wrote:"Insurance will be added to all items and is required."
I don't think I would use the word "added" or the word "required" in your statement.
Maybe you can say, Shipping cost includes Insurance or I will be shipping all items insured or All items are shipped with tracking and insurance.
So really indirectly we are charging the buyer the insurance fee, but just not stating that fact. If you can't add it to the shipping fee (because ebay has a flat shipping rate for some items) then let it be the handling fee if you charge a handling fee.
I'm not use to charging a separate handling fee I usually include extra in my shipping fee. Where do you list the separate handling fee?
posted on September 2, 2009 06:52:33 AM
Toni - If you list with Vendio - you can set your preferences to add a handling fee to each items (it's under Calculated Shipping Options). You can also change it as you list.
Same with ebay - you can set it at one amount but change it as needed on the listing page itself.
I'm not putting this statement in all my listing - it's already there. I'm hoping I can leave it and not have to edit every single listing.
This is on my main ID but on my second ID I HAVE to edit each one as I have it stated in my TOS that insurance will be added to any item over $50 at buyers expense.
posted on September 2, 2009 06:54:00 AM
There is no separate place to enter handling cost?
But how does a UK seller charge extra for Paypal fee? He would not know until end of auction when the bidder indicates he is paying via Paypal?
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There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
posted on September 2, 2009 07:22:15 AM
Thank you Ladyjewels for that info but I don't list with Vendio anymore. I use Inkfrog to list.
hwahwa I don't know what you mean. We are not allowed to charge extra for paypal fees as far as I know. So if they do that how do you know it's for paypal fees?
posted on September 2, 2009 07:23:42 AM
There is another issue that eBay is monitoring the cost of Shipping. They have and will warn when they think cost is exceeding their "determined" fee.
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I understand the responsibility levels of the seller and I agree. However, I have also albiet small run into people saying they "never" received an item and want a refund. And in truth did receive it.
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I already ship confirmed...but that does not guarantee delivery.
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So, the cost on an item over $50 insured, confirmed, signed receipt - eBay fees, PayPal fees - cannot be just added to a S&H cost (eBay will kick it out) - and the profit margin shrinks to nearly nothing....
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--Peace
"Educators must incorporate the technology of today with a vision of the future for the youth of today" JvK
posted on September 2, 2009 10:23:16 AM
Toni,
Ebay UK sellers can charge a fee if the bidder wants to pay with Paypal.
US consumer law would not allow a store to charge a fee when someone uses his credit card although I have seen some dollar store posting a sign saying you can use your credit card if you purchase at least 5 dollars worth of goods.
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There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
[ edited by hwahwa on Sep 2, 2009 01:03 PM ]
posted on September 2, 2009 10:36:33 AM
For ten years selling on internet,I rarely come across buyers who claim they did not receive their package?
there were a few cases and usually they are scams,like I shipped 4 packages to one buyer and one does not have DC and she claimed no receipt and then picked out 2 bestselling items from my list in lieu of refund.
Then she was suspended by Ebay for not paying her fee !
Another case was the book flew out of the envelope so it is all my fault !
Some are so obvious fraud like there is a defect,I dont want to return it but give me back 15 dollars,or I am too good to file claim at post office so give me back how much??
Or the teapot arrived damaged,the handle was jammed and stuck inside the teapot and I tried to run "hot water" to loosen it?
I am happy with USPS service,cheap and good,lets be candid ,if USPS is so bad,we would have gone out of business long ago!
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There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
posted on September 2, 2009 10:50:43 AM
So, I gather UK can charge and US cannot.
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"hwahwa" I have been selling for 11 years and it has occured only 2 times to me - that is why I stated "small concern".
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But are you eating the cost of insurance?
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I ship predominately USPS - except on some auto parts that exceed the 75lb limit.
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eBay will not let S&H on flat fees...
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--Peace
"Educators must incorporate the technology of today with a vision of the future for the youth of today" JvK
posted on September 2, 2009 01:07:34 PM
Right now I am selling small items so I dont bother to insure the item.
Yes,if it is lost or stolen,I will eat the loss and ship another one if I have one available,else I would refund.
Some day I may raise the starting bid ,but not now.
UK consumer law is such a seller can charge A FEE if someone wants to use the credit card,but not in USA.
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There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
[ edited by hwahwa on Sep 2, 2009 01:09 PM ]
posted on September 2, 2009 01:45:54 PM
I am confused. Just what does everyone sell? This change should not be that difficult.
You cannot charge extra for insurance once the sale is completed.
You cannot state anywhere in your listings that the buyer is responsible for insurance, or that the loss of an item is their responsibility.
You can include insurance in the shipping cost which you state in the item description prior to a sale. Or, include in the item sale price or auction start price.
You can state that the shipping costs include insurance for the ietm.
You can include insurance in a flat rate fee.
You can include insurance when using USPS calculated rates. The insurance can be added by using the predetermined s/h fee option.
You can sign up with U-PIC, and purchase domestic insurance for about 40 cents/$50, and international insurance for about $1.25/$50.
I would think that the cost for insurance would not be a burden on an auction item. I am sure that you must have an idea as to what the item will bring at auction. If the item returns more than you expected, there would be additional profit which would support the extra cost of insurance, which you would pay.
Insurance is your option. The burden is now upon the seller for the damage or loss.
Bill K-
"Always on the lookout for 'like new' ebay items"
William J Kozersky Stamp Co.
[ edited by kozersky on Sep 2, 2009 02:06 PM ]
posted on September 2, 2009 02:28:25 PM
The suggestion of building insurance cost into the starting bid of an item is ridiculous.
On an item that normally sell for very little, a higher starting bid will discourage bidders. Especially if you are competing with others selling the same item. And it certainly won't give you a higher selling amt, so you'll end up eating the insurance cost.
On items that I sell, I simply state that all items are shipped insured with free delivery confirmation. I've been doing it for months, and have had no complaints or dings to stars.
[ edited by max40 on Sep 2, 2009 02:33 PM ]
posted on September 2, 2009 02:28:49 PM
kozersky, said: The burden is now upon the seller for the damage or loss.
I always felt the burden was upon the seller if the item is damaged or lost.
I sell Sterling Vintage Jewelry/or New sometimes. Also Sell Vintage Toys, tools, car parts and just about anything old and collectible.
I have never had a problem paying for insurance since I put it into my shipping cost. Some Antique Tools are heavy and shipping is high, Ebay should not be allowed to tell me I can't charge what I need to charge so I'm able to pack the item for a safe arrival. They don't know how my items need to be packed.
I never over charge by more then 1.00 which covers some fees or supplies.
Since I list with Inkfrog they offer very low insurance which has made it easy to insure. I never had to make a claim with them yet, so I don't know how they pay out on a claim.
posted on September 2, 2009 05:33:58 PM
Well, I sell: stamps, bi-metallic coins, lamps, tools, some media and car parts.
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Some coins and stamps sell for over $500 the weight is nil but to add insurance to S&H is flagged by eBay.
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Calculated, eBay forces me to list the cost upfront which limits the S&H costs.
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I agree to package a car part can be expensive to protect - eBay should not force me into a S&H price for calculated.
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I still contend that my bottom line is getting smaller and there are fees and limits up the kazoo.... and not much I can do about it.
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--Peace
"Educators must incorporate the technology of today with a vision of the future for the youth of today" JvK
posted on September 2, 2009 05:58:22 PM
KP - If you sell stamps and coins for up to and over $500.00 you need to ship by Registered mail, rather than by First Class. Seems to me that you could include that cost at time of preparing the listing.
I have done so in the past. A message in the description informing buyers that the item will be shipped Registered Mail will explain the additional cost.
Further, I doubt that the items you sell at that price cost you that much. If they do, you should stop dealing in philatelic and numismatic categories. The margin is there for insurance.
I can recall an old merchant's saying - something along the lines of: If you sell items at a low price, to attract and accommodate buyers who have little cash, you will be hurt when your buyers have less or no cash, because then you will have little, or no sales.
The same holds true with shipping. You should want at the least, the buyer who does not complain that you ship for $1.00 rather than 44 cents.
Charge what is necessary for shipping and insurance. Ship by Priority Mail if necessary. Why cheapen your item by pouring it into an envelope, with no protection? You just might be surprised at what business is out there.
posted on September 2, 2009 06:23:49 PM
I looked at gold coins on Ebay sometimes and I dont recall seeing any seller shipping it cheap,it is always like 5-7 dollars.
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There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
posted on September 2, 2009 08:46:49 PM
Kozersky - I agree with your points, I have to work on beating down my greed.(
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HwaHwa - And you are correct about the shipping fees with gold.... and the buyers are very content with the price.
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The quality of the buyer proves Kozersky's point of view.
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A new wrinkle in this insurance... tonight I received a paypal bill for $2.75 for insurance on an eBay item I purchased. Way, Way down on the bottom of the listing was placed an insurance scale - required to pay.
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Yet, it was not on the initial invoice.
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It appears that eBay has a different set of rules for "Power Sellers"??
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--Peace
"Educators must incorporate the technology of today with a vision of the future for the youth of today" JvK
Of course you can choose to purchase insurance on shipments, but not ask buyers to buy insurance separately. In some categories like Antiques, Collectibles, and Jewelry, shipping insurance for sellers is essential. When appropriate, you can include the cost of insurance in your item or shipping price.
Optional buyer charges for shipping insurance removed: The insurance option creates the perception that buyers need to purchase shipping insurance as a protection on eBay, an experience they're not accustomed to on other e commerce sites. In fact, sellers have always been responsible for their items until they arrive safely in their customers' hands. That's why shipping insurance will no longer be included in the purchase flow as either an option or requirement for buyers.
KProducts
If you were charged extra for insurance then I guess you need to report the seller. But according to Ebay the new ruling starts in Sept but it didn't say it Started on Sept 1st, just said Sept.
posted on September 7, 2009 08:01:18 AM
Here is another twist. I went to revise some of my store listings to remove any mention of insurance. If it was for a multiple listing (several identical items) and one or more of them already sold, you cannot revise / edit the description. So, what's a seller to do??
Too many rule changes, too little time to waste on this mess.
