posted on June 3, 2010 11:12:50 AM new
I'm looking for a bit of advice in handling an ever growing problem... online customer research.
I have customers who sell us items or consign items with us. Sometimes they go online and research items. The problem here is that they show up with the highest valued price possible, likely from 1stdibs or bond&bowery dealers. These are often galleries in places such as New York, LA, Miami, San Francisco, or Chicago.
These prices are just "asking" prices, not generally the sale price. They never publish the sale price when it sells, it just changes from say, $5000 to SOLD. So, when someone sees that, they automatically think they sold it for $5000. Oftentimes, these dealers take offers between 25 - 75% of their asking price. I can't blame these dealers for using such tactics, as they sometimes get those wealthy people who will offer $4500 for something worth $1500. I wouldn't balk at $3000 more, would you?
Where this creates problems is with consignors or clients selling items to us. They think that b/c they see it there for $5K, that it is worth $5K. Obviously, that is not the case... AT ALL. Here are some examples:
eBay (unsold at $125): http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Modern-Metal-Jere-Bird-Sunburst-Sculpture-HUGE-/200473650337?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Art_Sculpture&hash=item2ead2924a1
Wells is asking $1800 for 4. We have the same exact chairs, but with 6 and are asking $900 for them (unsold after 3 months). Ours are all original leather and in excellent condition.
As a dealer, I do this for a living. I have overhead, so when I buy something for $1000, sell it for $2000... my profit is on average 25% or $250. With consignment, I make a little less, but I also don't have to fork out the money for it, just pay the overhead. Consignments make us about 20%.
I guess my frustration is that I have someone right now that lives 250 miles away that wants to sell us some nice pieces. She is online, researching values. I have to consider that 250 miles is roughly 25 hours of work for 2 of us, plus travel expenses. A business trip like that costs us $500-600.
The same table on 1st dibs is $4000-6000 (I bought ours in our living room for $45 at a thrift store!). In our store, I am looking at $1800-2000 retail, no more than $2500 asking price. I could easily ask $4000 for the table, but it will sit unsold forever. The chairs she has retail at our store for $200-250 each. There are 6.
I expect her asking price to be well beyond what we would pay, and probably beyond what we would sell them for because she is going to end up at 1stdibs researching prices.
How would you explain this to someone who obviously doesn't want to get ripped off, but doesn't understand the reality of the collectibles market?
Do I keep it simple, and say, "thanks but no thanks" or explain the realities of running a business and cost factors? It is hard to negotiate a price down by 75% of their asking price even when their asking price is more than what we would ask on our retail floor.
[ edited by shagmidmod on Jun 3, 2010 11:14 AM ]
[ edited by shagmidmod on Jun 3, 2010 11:15 AM ]
posted on June 3, 2010 12:22:57 PM new
Since YOU are the expert, and the one that's laying the cash on the line, your offer should be final. If the seller doesn't like it, tough. Take a pass.
Let them fish elsewhere.
I guess that's why I don't deal directly with the public. Way too much trouble.
posted on June 3, 2010 12:44:01 PM new
I would tell her the truth,encourage her to find someone closer to her and if she still not satisfied ,then contact you.
By then ,she should have lowered her expectations !
*
There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
[ edited by hwahwa on Jun 3, 2010 01:04 PM ]
posted on June 3, 2010 12:51:02 PM new
I was at a yard sale recently and saw a chipped Bauer bowl with $100 marked on it. The seller said she'd looked it up on eBay and it "sold" (who knows) for $125, perfect, so she figured with a chip in the rim it would be worth "only" $100. I told her she'd be lucky to get $20 for it, probably closer to $10 or $15. She asked if she could consign it with me, and I told her it wouldn't be worth my time. (It was one of the second or third designs Bauer had made, not the original design.)
I get this all the time! I sometimes suggest the person sell it on eBay, then, if it's worth that much. Go through the 10 or so steps to sell it, handle questions from potential buyers, get it sold and paid for, and then ship it and pray the buyer doesn't claim damage etc. etc. etc.
People won't change, I think, but it does get tiresome.
Ever watch Pawn Stars on the History Channel? If not... check it out. The pawn shop deals with this type of scenario all the time. I would take these lessons away from the show:
1) Be honest with the people trying to sell you items. If it's worth more than they think... let them know... if it's worth less... let them know that too. If you don't know what it's worth... tell them that too.
2) Give them an opportunity to set the price. It might surprise you.
3) If their offer is too high... explain your overhead, time, etc... and make a counter-offer. Be willing to negotiate some, but stand firm when necessary.
4) If they don't like your offer, explain that you're offering cash now. They can certainly hang onto the item and hope to get some more money out of it later down the road (like you'd be doing it if you bought it from them)... but that won't pay the bills today.
5) If you can't reach an agreement, part ways amiably. Let them know your offer stands, and they can come back later if they change their mind.
Sure... some people won't be happy... but that's the business. Others will respect your honesty and fair business practice and will recommend you to others. Which ones would you rather have as customers?
******************************
posted on June 3, 2010 06:14:12 PM new
I think your biggest dilemma is the 500 miles RT you have to travel for perhaps a good buy or perhaps zilch. Let her do the research. Then have her describe the items to you on the phone - if she's done the research, she should have the descriptions down. Explain to her the market realities, how you have to price items and the margins needed to keep profitable. THEN ask her what she's willing to sell them for. If it's reasonable, make the trip. If not, wish her good luck and move on. I occasionally face this when I buy postcards. Folks who follow my auctions can't understand why I can't pay $3 for a card they know I'll list for $9.00. They don't understand that every postcard I sell out of the chute also has to pay fees for at least 3-10 cards that don't sell immediately. Edited to add: if you decide not to make the trip, you might suggest she bring her items to Portland where you could look at her things and make an offer, if she declines, she could get other bids in the Portland market.
[ edited by pixiamom on Jun 3, 2010 06:21 PM ]
posted on June 4, 2010 04:06:21 PM new
pixia... you got it! i made a contingent offer on everything based on her described condition and she is mulling it over. i offered what i could based on all of the circumstances.
she also inquired about selling a few newer things, and I explained the issue with new stuff... if I can still buy it new wholesale for 40% of retail, I can't offer much for it used, and I definitely can't sell it for more than 50-60% of new.
she seems to understand what I am explaining to her and is open minded enough. She did find several pieces online of her table and emailed them to me. Of course, all of them were much higher than what we can realistically sell it for. Funny how she pulled the most expensive version from eBay, but didn't bother to mention the ones that were half that price with Make An Offer and still not sold. None in the completed were sold.
if we travel there, i am staying the night at a hotel. i don't plan to drive 5 hours there, load some furniture, and drive right back without exploring that area some. i've been through that area, but never spent time there. if i could, i would stay 2 days.
posted on June 4, 2010 06:25:30 PM new
If you are driving to her house,she may have friends who are interested in selling their stuff and you can ask her to arrange meeting with them .
Birds of the same feather do flock together,you know!
*
There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
posted on June 4, 2010 08:06:42 PM new
Hwahwa - I'm assuming she lives in a remote small town, Shag's business is in a large metropolitan center. It is far more likely that she will find additional buyers in his community than he will find additional sellers in hers,
posted on June 4, 2010 11:35:11 PM new
Hwa, I'm struggling, as usual, to understand your reasoning. I and Otteropp and Mr. Otteropp met with Shag and his girl friend and I can assure you, he is not a she.
I was at a store the other day and had to use the rest room. The woman working tried to unlock the woman's door and then realized she went to the wrong door.
A few weeks ago Cindy and I were at a Garage Sale and the woman there facing into the sun as we walked up said, "How are you ladies doing". She backtracked the moment she could see us out of the light.
It's not the first time I ever got that... I suppose that is what happens when you're raised with only women (mom and 2 sisters), and you end up living with only women (girlfriend, daughter and grandaughter). You pick up the subtleties like run on sentences (if you know what I mean). lol.
posted on June 5, 2010 07:40:14 AM new
hwahwa- you hit it on the head.
An email from her... "And a friend here has some danish modern chairs she wants to sell (the style with a horizontal ellipse as the back support)...?"
Geez, I hope I have enough money... maybe her town is some little mecca of Scandinavians and hipsters from the 60's that bought all of this stuff. I might be able to clean house.
[ edited by shagmidmod on Jun 5, 2010 07:41 AM ]
posted on June 5, 2010 07:58:19 AM new
I also believe that Hwahwa had a good point!
There are less populated areas all over the country where sellers and buyers abound. For example, on the east coast, a plethora of both buyers and sellers may be found in the relatively rural area of Lancaster county, Pennsylvania.
posted on June 6, 2010 02:35:52 PM new
Shag,
I think that was where Pixiamom took us for lunch! Used to be an old Silent Movie house and was really neat.
I have a couple of photos of us in your Store but don't know how to post them here. They are stored on my computer so I don't have a URL...unless Picasa can somehow help me.
posted on June 6, 2010 05:50:39 PM new
Otterpop, I hope that you had a much better lunch and experience than we did.
We both wanted to try the chowder, so we ordered that and it was good. Because we had chowder, we decided to split one of their larger dinners. The salmon was raw in the middle and tasted fishy, which if you eat salmon like I do, you know it should taste fresh not fishy. We waited almost 5 minutes for our waitress to come by, and finally a different waiter came and asked if we were finished. We told him about the salmon, and he was very nice in handling it.
Unfortunately, our waitress was a whole different story. She came to our table with a bad attitude, asked what was wrong. We told her. She didn't offer a solution other than to rudely grunt, "fine, I'll comp it" as she stormed off slamming our plates on the counter drawing attention from the entire restaurant. We didn't ask for it to be comped, we just had hoped they would either remake the dish or offer us the option to get something different. For a $21 plate, you would think you could at least speak up if there was a problem. I really couldn't eat the salmon it was so awful.
Needless to say, we're not going back. I refuse to be treated like sh... It is too bad because we both like seafood, and are always looking for a decent place nearby our work and home. We heard so many good things about it, but unfortunately our experience was anything but.
posted on June 6, 2010 06:13:52 PM new
You know, that's what Yelp is for.
Anyway, not to be unsympathetic, but you pretty much signed up for the "my stuff is worth this much money, so pay me" trip when you decided to sell vintage and collectibles. All dealers face it, because there isn't a giant warehouse full of choice items waiting for you to drop by and pick from. When you have to buy from the public you have to deal with the public. That's why I got out years ago.
My uncle did house cleanouts, long ago. I really think he had the best end of the business. The owners were deceased and the heirs just wanted some cash and an empty house to sell.
posted on June 6, 2010 06:47:08 PM new
yeah, but don't let that fool you either. dealing with the heirs can be just as frustrating and weird. i had a woman sit there and cry while we carried out furniture recently. her mom went downhill quick, moved from an apartment, to a retirement home, to assisted living in very little time. it was very sad, but odd as well.
i will say, i much rather meet people than go to estate sales. estate sales bring out the worst in our business. i just went to a rummage sale next door to our house. while in line 4 people chatted about witnessing having a gun pulled, fights, people's arms being broken... all the while the guy who arrive just after me (who participated in the conversation) kept trying to nudge his way in front of me. just as the doors opened, he was in front of me, and I stepped in front of him as we got to the door. I am not one of those idiots who feel compelled to cheat, steal, fight with people... but I also won't let people take advantage of me either. I've had a few showdowns myself and won't back down (I guess that is the former bar bouncer in me). Either way, I hate confrontation.
[ edited by shagmidmod on Jun 6, 2010 06:53 PM ]
posted on June 6, 2010 07:16:33 PM new
Shag, re: Pal's Shanty. I hadn't been there in at least 15 years but it was notorious for the freshest Dungeness crab in town and the bitchiest waitress. I heard that it had undergone a renovation, but the place looked pretty much the same - agate slabs encased in Formica table tops, sloping floors from its silent movie days. In the restroom (with pretty good graffiti) another patron exclaimed "I forgot how funky this place is". My thoughts exactly. We had a young waitress, not the bitchy old one.
posted on June 6, 2010 07:37:57 PM new
re: Pals- I've had several people say it is good, but I also think they go there for the oysters and sandwiches. it has bothered both us to no end today. it was just such a bizarre experience. i can understand a bad piece of fish or under cooking it, but this was both and for the waitress to handle it so rudely. amazingly, we even left her a tip that she most certainly didn't deserve just to get the hell out of there.
i like the fishwife up on N Lombard. that is pretty good, but I still haven't had what I consider a really great seafood platter. I am talking good seafood and good sides. I can get good seafood, but average sides. Same with BBQ. What is up with that????
posted on June 7, 2010 08:45:21 PM new
Shag, you're probably too young to remember, but in the '90s, USA Today voted Winterbornes, a ten-table (at most, in an unassuming strip mall on Fremont, in the top 20 of U.S. Seafood restaurants). The best meal I ever ate, a mussels in wine appetizer, a delicate fennel-infused tomato consomme, Crab Juniper (Crab, firm white fish, comice pears and rice in a reduced cream sauce), a salad to cleanse our palates. and we always ordered the to-die-for chocolate mousse (before they added the orange liqueur). For a special treat, particuliary in the winter months, they are worth the trip to their new location in the wine country, Carlton, OR. Their new name is Cuvee's, and while they used to be a "fish only" restaurant, I see they've expanded their menu. The chef/owner is from the Alsace region of France. The prices are extremely reasonable for a world-class meal. http://www.cuveedining.com/index.html
posted on June 9, 2010 08:45:29 AM new
thanks for the info. i'll keep that in mind next time i head to the coast. looks like a great lunch menu too.
i remember going to an estate sale out there many years ago. it was by far the largest estate i had ever been to. the house was huge and was packed with so much stuff.
