blueyes29
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posted on September 18, 2010 03:37:24 PM new
I think I'm brain dead...I can't think of what this might be called. It's metal...maybe brass...It features a girl curled up on a flower-petal bowl. It's on a pedistal. I think it's too big for a soap dish and it's not a fountain. Can anyone help? Thanks...
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LtRay
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posted on September 18, 2010 04:44:44 PM new
Very nice. Would need measurements before I could say for sure. Dresser bowl, card tray, catchall, etc ?
Art nouveau / early deco. Metal is likely spelter judging from the area underneath her arm where there is paint loss.
Give us a pic of the bottom and some measurements for a better guess.
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blueyes29
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posted on September 18, 2010 06:36:32 PM new
Thanks, LtRay...The bowl measures about 9 1/2 inches by 7 inches. The bowl part is slightly slanted and stands 3 inches high on one end and 2 1/2 on the other. I'm attaching a pic of the bottom. Appreciate the info...the item belonged to the late mother of a friend of mine...I also thought it was nice...especially the girl...she has such a winsome and wistful "look"...Thanks for the info...
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otteropp
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posted on September 18, 2010 11:12:49 PM new
What a nice piece....so much more attractive than your fish!
Maybe it has no purpose other than being decorative. It would look very nice in a bathroom.
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ebabestreasures
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posted on September 19, 2010 02:25:24 AM new
Lovely and otteropp is right. It's so pretty that it doesn't need a purpose.
It really does have a Art Nouveau look to it. Could it be that old?
See if a magnet sticks but spelter would be my guess as well.
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blueyes29
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posted on September 19, 2010 07:22:06 AM new
I sell mostly consignment items so I get a wide variety of items...that's why it's so much fun. The bowl part of this item is magnatized...a magnet sticks to it. The girl, however, isn't. What does this say about the type of metal the bowl might be? Brass? Still trying to come up with the best 80-character title description...
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ebabestreasures
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posted on September 19, 2010 07:49:37 AM new
The base is not brass if a magnet sticks to it. It's some type of pot metal or spelter.
But what is the lady made of is a puzzle. It looks to be a silver color in the photo. Odd that it would be two different metals.
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otteropp
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posted on September 19, 2010 08:05:28 AM new
This seems to be the right topic for me to ask a question...What is Spelter?
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blueyes29
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posted on September 19, 2010 12:42:29 PM new
As I recall, spelter is a generic base metal made of several different metals...lots of early decorative items were made of this combination of metals. I know that's pretty vague and am sure other, more knowledgeable folks, can provide more info.
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otteropp
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posted on September 19, 2010 07:23:49 PM new
Thanks for giving it a try.
I have been asking local people about Spelter and I have been getting the same sort of reply you just gave me and THEY all claim to be knowledgeable.
Our local Auction House often has things they say are made of this mystery(to me) metal so I was just curious.
Good luck with this lovely piece.
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hwahwa
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posted on September 19, 2010 07:32:24 PM new
Spelter, while sometimes merely a synonym for zinc, is often used to identify a zinc alloy. In this sense it might be an alloy of equal parts copper and zinc used for hard soldering and brazing,[1] or as an alloy, containing lead, that is used instead of bronze. In this usage it was common for many 19th-century cheap, cast articles such as candlesticks and clock cases and early 20th-century Art Nouveau ornaments and Art Deco figures.[2] The word 'pewter' is thought to be derived from the word 'spelter'.[3] Zinc ingots formed by smelting might also be termed spelter.[4]
*
There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
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blueyes29
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posted on September 19, 2010 09:43:55 PM new
I first heard it when I took an item to the Antiques Road Show when it was here in Oklahoma City. Appraiser said that it was a "common metal"..pretty much what hwahwa said although I couldn't remember it all. Thanks!
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LtRay
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posted on September 20, 2010 01:59:04 PM new
Hi blueyes, sorry I disappeared for a bit. Not surprised there are 2 different metals.
Hard to say without holding this piece but I would not be surprised to find the base is cast iron and the nymph is spelter. The screw on the base gives you an insight to how the piece was assembled. The washer used to support the screw appears to be a thin metal which also gives a clue as to the original assembly and value of the piece.
Now, as for the the metal part of the bowl, most likely it is cast iron as well. Is the nymph applied separately? Perhaps held on with a screw. If you do not see a screw, look for solder marks at her base.
If she is applied, the bowl most likely is also cast iron. If she is part of the casting then the bowl is most likely spelter.
The nymph would be enamel painted and the rest of the casting would be painted to look like bronze.
Cast iron is used for the base to give the illusion of weight since spelter is a very light metal. The purpose of all this was to create an affordable art object with the illusion of a much more expensive bronze piece. To stay out of trouble with your buyer DO NOT use the term bronze anywhere in your listing.
For those of you who did not know what spelter is, it is mixture of ores that were inexpensive at the time. Zinc, lead, etc. were combined to create an alloy that was less expensive to manufacture than brass or bronze. Spelter had only enough copper content to add strengthen to keep the piece from collapsing during casting and handling.
How do you tell if it is spelter? Weight! A piece made of spelter will be unusually light if you were expecting to feel the weight of cast iron, bronze or brass.
Observation - If the piece is old and the surface has not had much exposure to oxidation it will probably have a whitish/zinc hue. After years of exposure and handling, the lead content will cause the piece to take on a grayish hue. If the piece is painted look for scratched areas to see the hue of the metal.
Use caution handling spelter. It is a very weak metal and can easily be damaged if dropped. It will become even more fragile as it oxidizes.
Spelter was greatly used as an inexpensive way to cast art objects in the late 1800's to mid 1900's. In beginning part of the last century, many of the metals we are more familiar with today such as copper and aluminum were very expensive to mine and manufacture. New mining techniques in the 30's and 40's brought the price of aluminum down to the point where it was an affordable working metal, hence the popular aluminum ware craze of the 1950's.
Today a piece such as this would be (and is!) produced with polymer resins that did not exist at the time this piece was made.
She is lovely and judging from your measurements I would call her an "Original Art Nouveau Nymph on Flower Console bowl".
A quick check of ebay shows a plethora of resin reproductions so use very good pictures and wording to assure the buyer that your piece is an original Nouveau period piece.
Of course, if all this seems like too much of a hassle I will gladly send you $10 plus postage to take her off your hands <g>.
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blueyes29
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posted on September 20, 2010 04:24:35 PM new
WOW, LtRay...You're GREAT! Your response couldn't have come at a better time because I'm just now getting ready to list this item for launch on 26 Sept. Your information is invaluable and I so appreciate it! I especially appreciate your descriptive title...it's perfect and I plan to use it exactly as you wrote it. I'm sure you're correct with the cast iron bowl...the item is VERY heavy and weighs about 8 pounds! There is some paint loss on parts of the girl...exposed parts have a gray/lead color so perhaps she's made of spelter. I can't tell how she's attached to the bowl. The screw seems to attach the bowl to the base but is "off line" to attach the girl. Maybe there's a hidden screw. Anyway...I will use all due diligence in writing the description and have lots and lots of photos. If you do end up bidding for her, I'll bet we can work a deal with postage...Thanks again for your invaluable help!
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otteropp
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posted on September 20, 2010 07:18:34 PM new
LtRay...thank you!
Finally I found someone who could tell me about Spelter!
I have many reference books but for years I have kept a simple 3 Ring binder in which I include useful information like yours that is not easy to come by elsewhere. I shall print it and save it so you may consider yourself 'Published'.
Blueeyes....I wish you luck with this pretty piece. I will give you $20 to include shipping to Vancouver Island...LOL!
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blueyes29
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posted on September 20, 2010 08:23:34 PM new
Maybe I ought to just forget about eBay and run a little auction right here...thanks, offeropp...Even though your "bid" is higher, have to say that LtRay gets a bit of an edge because of the info he gave...Thanks! 
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hwahwa
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posted on September 21, 2010 03:54:46 AM new
I have a question-recent years the Japanese have been producing cheap metal figurines using zinc and iron,but they break!
Like I have a small zinc crab which looks like bronze but is made of zinc and one leg broke and when I look at the broken end,it looks like powder.
Is this powdered metal?I know some auto parts are made of powdered metal and some household appliances are made of powdered metal too,they look awful after a few usages,the metal look dull!
*
There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
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ebabestreasures
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posted on September 21, 2010 12:53:53 PM new
LtRay - if the lady is spelter wouldn't a magnet stick to it?
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LtRay
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posted on September 21, 2010 08:18:36 PM new
Nope, spelter is not magnetic.
HwaHwa, we usually just call the stuff you are referring to as pot metal. Potmetal is a slang term for any cheap combination of ores that will hold a shape when molded. It is called potmetal because just about any scrap may get thrown into the melting pot to create it. Spelter is also often called pot metal by old tymers such as myself.
Potmetal is so unstable that it cannot be welded and often cannot even be soldered because it has such a low melting point. The lead content makes it weak, the zinc content makes it powdery. About the only way you can repair it is with a modern epoxy. Even super glue usually will not bond to it.
I have used JB weld and had some luck with another 2 part epoxy that I can't remember the name of right now. Neither type of repair will take much stress but can be used to fill in a hole or re-attach an appendage and then painted to cover the defect.
BTW, I am a she not a he [g]
Perhaps everyone thinks I am a guy because of the stuff I chat about. Grew up trying to understand how things work so I have disassembled, inspected, repaired, destroyed, reproduced all kinds of stuff.
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hwahwa
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posted on September 22, 2010 06:39:35 AM new
thank you.
Well,I thought you are a retired lieutenant!
*
There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
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blueyes29
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posted on October 16, 2010 12:29:55 PM new
Update...Thanks to LtRay and all others who helped out so much on identification of this console, it sold on eBay and brought a nice healthy price...and the buyer is very pleased! Feel like I should send the helpful folks on this board a small commission! Thanks bunches!
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otteropp
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posted on October 16, 2010 07:30:44 PM new
Well done!
I am so glad that you sold it for a good price. She was a lovely looking piece.
I still think she would have looked lovely in MY house!
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