posted on October 22, 2010 04:32:18 AM
As of 11/01/10, your customers who pay with PayPal are protected for items they receive that are "significantly not as described". This means that you may be liable for the cost including the original shipping charges should they file a claim. However, by offering this protection, PayPal helps encourage customers to shop on your site.
We recommend that you make sure that photos and written descriptions on your site are as accurate as possible, to help avoid these types of claims.
The change to our buyer protection policy will take effect from November 1st, 2010 and won’t apply to transactions made before this date.
To learn more tips to ensure a good buying experience and avoid claims, click below.
Thanks,
PayPal
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There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
posted on October 22, 2010 07:30:00 AM
Nice. The main issue I have with this is the lack of a verification process.
The idea that this type of claim is a rubber stamp approval for refunds is absurd. It is an open door for fraud because anyone can easily claim they received something different than what they purchased... and then return whatever they want in replacement of it.
As a seller I have been burned by this policy through ebay. I sold a brand new camera sealed in the original box. What was returned was the same model camera that was dragged behind a truck down a dirt road. They switched the serial number plate on the cameras. Didn't include the box, the manuals, etc.
I had to go through the trouble of filing a police report for ebay to not charge me for this... yet eBay let the buyer get away with it by issuing them a refund. Whether it is eBay or Paypal, they won't follow up. Even with a police report, photographs, etc. eBay still allows this buyer to do business on eBay. I can't even give a warning in feedback against this person.
eBay simply allows fraud to run rampant on their system and now Paypal will too.
posted on October 22, 2010 07:36:13 AM
There is one way to combat this problem...
publicize it with a Welcome sign for fraud. the more it gets out there that eBay/paypal in essence welcomes fraud through their policies the more likely ebay/paypal will reconsider these policies.
the other issue I have with this policy is how eBay treated me when I used a stock photograph for the camera. They acted like this was suspicious. I pointed out that I had sold several of these cameras with serial numbers in sequential order with very satisfied buyers... still didn't matter in the eyes of eBay.
on the flip side, eBay was also promoting sellers to allow eBay to use your photographs in their system as stock photos for other sellers.
talk about a two faced policy... not to mention that the camera is sealed in the box. doesn't opening a box and photographing it defeat the purpose of selling it as "new"?
posted on October 23, 2010 05:27:48 PM
I like to think that most people are basically honest but I can see how in these economic times that some people may try to take advantage of this policy. Hopefully it won't be too bad.
posted on October 23, 2010 05:56:35 PM
They are fling every dispute 'item significantly not as described'.
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There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
posted on October 23, 2010 08:59:01 PM
INAD is all it takes. It is the fail safe method of being a buyer. Even more problematic is that these buyers can simply return an old smelly shoe to you and there is absolutely nothing you can really do about it.
As I have said before... the best way to combat this problem is to draw attention to it. Let everyone know they can simply falsify a claim, send something else back, etc. The more this gets out there the more likely Paypal and Ebay will do something to fix it. That is what happened when enough buyers complained that eBay's system favored sellers... so they created INAD, they removed seller feedback for buyers, etc.
posted on October 23, 2010 09:15:47 PM
PayPal has also extended the policy to merchants with their own website who use PayPal - the following is from an AuctionBytes article on 10/22/2010:
'PayPal was also busy this month, sending emails to merchants and services that offer PayPal on their own websites. The letter stated in part, "As of 11/01/10, your customers who pay with PayPal are protected for items they receive that are "significantly not as described". This means that you may be liable for the cost including the original shipping charges should they file a claim." PayPal told merchants the change to the Buyer Protection policy would take effect November 1 and would not apply to transactions made before this date.'
So, now PayPal is extending it's tentacles into my business operation. I'm not sure how I will handle this, however, I will evaluate over the holiday selling season and may just accept only credit cards next year.
posted on October 24, 2010 06:55:56 AM
credit card can be worse,the chargeback fee is much higher and if too many disputes filed,they can hold back payout or cancel your account.
It stays on your record for other merchant account providers to see,they could either refuse to do business with you or raise your discount rate.
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There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
posted on October 24, 2010 08:26:57 AM
merchants are feeling the pinch from everywhere. the big corporate giants like PP, eBay, Visa, MC, etc are all looking for advantages to make more money. There is no end to how much profits they will try to squeeze from you... but that is what you get when you support a system with no government regulations.
we just spoke with a floral shop owner who expressed frustration about FTD. She said that FTD is offering these promos for customers where basically she makes absolutely no money... in fact probably loses money on. Customers buy a floral arrangement for $19.99 and then FTD sends the order to the floral shop. They fulfill the order and FTD gives them 20% of the price... $4.00. This is supposed to cover the cost of the flowers, the labor to create the arrangement, delivery, and the overhead. Meanwhile, the other 80% goes to a corporation that didn't do anything other than set up an order fulfillment website.
i also know someone who owns a Quiznos sandwich shop. Since they are a franchisee, they have to buy specific items from Quiznos... which isn't a biggie except that they also are required to accept ANY promotional coupon that Quiznos puts out and they get nothing in return. We have seen promos that offer $5.00 off any purchase. Problem is that there are tons of menu items that cost $2-5. So, customers are walking out with free food and the franchisee is left taking the hit on the costs.
This all goes without mentioning all of the corporations that shut down American jobs to send them to Mexico, China, etc.
As I have said a thousand times before... corporations answer to only one thing... PROFIT. If you think there is anything more, you are living in an unrealistic world.
Too bad there aren't life expectancies for corporations like there are humans... with that "a corporation has citizen rights" decision we had earlier this year.
[ edited by shagmidmod on Oct 24, 2010 08:30 AM ]
posted on October 24, 2010 08:35:25 AM
and to make things worse, since the small guy gets less money, we have to work harder to earn a livable wage. more time working means less time to spend creating an uproar about the problem. whether intentional or not, this is another consequence of allowing corporate America to run amok.
posted on October 24, 2010 09:01:24 AM
Most coupons I have seen have limitations ,seldom can people use a $5 coupon to buy a $5 item?
Like those meal coupons,order one entree and get a second one free- the second one is of less value than the first entree.
And the restaurant charges regular price for coffee,desert and sales tax.
But the floral shop getting $4 for flowers,thats awful.
At our Kroger,we can get 7 stems of gladiolous for $2.50,but we have to take them home ourselves,no delivery !
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There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
posted on October 24, 2010 09:25:15 AM
the owner of the quiznos has posted a sign that states he will not accept the $5 off coupon any longer. this is of course against quiznos policies... but he really has no choice if he wants to stay open. you simply cannot give away food for free, pay your labor, pay your overhead, and still survive.
posted on October 24, 2010 09:02:52 PM
Back to the original topic - this from the 10/06/2010 AuctionBytes article:
"When (not if) claims are filed, will PayPal require the merchandise to be returned?"
"In order for a merchant to receive their merchandise back in instances where the buyer claims an item is significantly not as described by the seller, the merchant must respond to the claim within 10 days."
"Once the merchant responds to the claim, the buyer is required to return the merchandise to the seller within 10 calendar days after a claim decision has been made. The buyer is then responsible for paying for the cost of return shipping. In order to receive a refund, buyers must provide PayPal with online proof of delivery in the US (which is also validated) before a refund will be issued. Proof of delivery vs proof of shipment varies by country."
"Many other payment providers only require the buyer to state that the merchandise was returned in order to gain reimbursement. PayPal always works to resolve these cases as fairly and equitably as possible."
posted on October 25, 2010 08:16:41 AM
Sometimes the return shipping can be expensive .
The bidder may ask the seller to prepaid his return shipping .
How do you return a couch?
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There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
posted on October 25, 2010 08:28:24 AM
Instant Refunds at merchant's expense??? When did that happen on eBay?
Also, what kind of 3rd party verification will Paypal accept? Someone's friend? A fake letter on fake letterhead? An affidavit?
So, does this mean there will be an actual review and verification of INAD claims? Highly doubtful.
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Or will they simply offer "instant-refunds" (at the merchant's expense) just as they do at eBay?
Merchandise claim returns are not instant with PayPal. As described above, if the seller responds to the claim within 10 days, the buyer must return the merchandise before receiving a refund. If the seller does not respond, the buyer will win the claim by default. In this case, the buyer will be able to keep the funds and the merchandise. If a merchant wants their merchandise returned, it's very important for them to respond to the claim within the specified period of time.
In cases of Item Not Received, the seller must provide proof of delivery (US) within 10 days or the buyer will win the claim.
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When (not if) a dishonest customer falsely claims that an item is counterfeit, will PayPal confiscate it at the merchant's expense?
The policies below vary based on the purchase location. It is illegal to return counterfeit merchandise via the mail in various countries outside the U.S.
* If a US buyer purchases an item from a US seller; the buyer will typically be instructed to return the alleged counterfeit merchandise to the seller for a refund.
* If a US buyer purchases an item from an international seller, the buyer will be instructed to provide PayPal with evidence (documentation from a 3rd party) that the item is counterfeit. Once PayPal has validated the documentation, the buyer will be asked to destroy the item and attest to this action by signing an affidavit.
* If an international buyer purchases an item, the buyer will be instructed to provide PayPal with evidence (documentation from a 3rd party) that the item is counterfeit. PayPal will validate the documentation and then ask the buyer to destroy the item and attest to this action by signing an affidavit.
posted on October 25, 2010 08:31:44 AM
Finally, speaking from personal experience and this is NOT addressed... what happens when a buyer sends back a different or used item (when the original item was sold as new)?
Do we have to get 3rd party verification and an affidavit to combat that issue?
posted on October 25, 2010 08:40:43 AM
just curious... but how does google payments compare to paypal for seller protection? anyone have experience with that?
we've run our retail store for 7 years and thankfully we have never had a problem with credit cards in our store. we take necessary precautions, but I still get concerned with big ticket items.
i just don't understand how a buyer can keep an item and get a refund.
a few years ago i had a problem with a mechanic that installed an aftermarket starter on our car. they used an inferior starter though they claimed to have used a bosch. less than 100 miles it died on us. we asked them to tow it in and they refused, so I filed a chargeback. The bank did reverse the charge and never asked me to return the starter to them. I got a call from the shop owner about the incident and he said he had fired the mechanic for this and other "dishonest" issues. I offered to return the part to him and dropped it off a few days later. I just don't get this open window for fraud.
posted on October 25, 2010 10:28:47 AM
First Google customer service is poor,email only and no phone support,and they dont work on weekends.
I dont recall Google has any buyer or seller protection program,they just go with the MC/VISA/AMEX procedures.They are like Paypal in its initial phase !
Just remember,Google is not a venue provider,the item in dispute is not sold on ang Google site,so Google does not have to be responsible.
You may verifiy this with your service provider-
if a buyer returns the item and you refuse it,he automatically gets his money back and gets to keep the item.This does not work with professional retailers whose policy is that customer must seek approval or return tag before they return the item.
If your buyer returns a sheet of paper instead of a laptop to you with a DC,it is up to you to appeal the case.Like you can show the weight of the package,the content etc.
In general,a 'real' retailer with a license, a brick and mortar store or a Walmart or Target or Bestbuy carry more clouts and credibility.
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There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
posted on October 25, 2010 12:53:06 PM"First Google customer service is poor,email only and no phone support,and they dont work on weekends."
I tried Google Payments for awhile. There was some difficulty in that Google would not add service charge to shipping, and there were difficulties with shipping rates.
Customer service was and is horrible. When there is a problem, I need an answer now - not within 24 hours, with a canned response.
I also use MoneyBookers for international transactions. MoneyBookers international does have phone support. A phone call to them is an experience.
posted on October 25, 2010 03:42:59 PM
thanks. i already have a company i use for CC processing in store, howeve3r this is another venture altogether... so it will require a new account which probably also means that they will want me on a 3 year contract.
Though I have never had a problem with them regarding chargebacks, it is largely because we require people to pay in store, not online.
There really is no great way to prevent buyer fraud other than file a police report and hope for the best.
posted on October 25, 2010 04:03:51 PM
I have seen cases where seller gives instant refund as soon as the buyer files a complaint.
Why?Because they are bad sellers and they are afraid to be suspended,or negged!
Say they are selling knockoffs,selling defective gadgets they dont understand,or adding a free cockroach in the package.
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There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
posted on October 25, 2010 07:02:55 PM
As most of our orders are from repeat customers we ask them to kindly pay by domestic bank transfer. It's fast, free and extremely safe for both parties, and since we have done business in the past, buyers are for the most part happy to comply. Of course this isn't much use in the USA as ACH payments aren't routine or free as in most countries.
It's only with eBay sales (which ranks below Google with us for lead generation) that we run into problems with PayPal. We're happy to accept initial orders through PayPal, but usually decline subsequent orders from customers (mostly North American) who insist upon using it. We are happy to accept MoneyBookers, money orders, or hard currencies such as Japanese Yen, Euros, Swiss Francs, Australian/Hong Kong/Canadian Dollars or British Pounds. Being located outside the major markets we aren't covered by any form of PayPal Seller Protection whatsoever...
"I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." - Robert McCloskey
posted on October 26, 2010 03:31:11 AM
ACH is more common than you thought in USA,if they shop online,they do banking online.
But US/ACH only works between US banks,do you have an account with a US bank?
Bank of America small business can do their own international wiretransfer online,the fee is 45 dollars.
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There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
