posted on July 15, 2001 04:16:19 AM new
Golly gee, you mean they CHEATED?!
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Florida election officials, under intense
pressure from Republicans after the U.S. presidential election, accepted
hundreds of overseas absentee ballots that failed to comply with state
election laws, the New York Times reported in its Sunday editions.
The study found noticeable differences in how Florida counties treated
ballots with similar defects. For example, counties carried by Gore
counted two in 10 ballots not mailed on or before Nov. 7, while
counties carried by Bush accepted six in 10 similar ballots.
``Bush counties were four times as likely as Gore counties to count
ballots lacking witness signatures and addresses,'' the Times reported.
Of the 680 flawed ballots, 344 were found to lack evidence they were
cast on or before Election Day and instead had late, illegible or missing
postmarks, while 183 ballots carried U.S. postmarks.
There were 96 ballots that lacked the required signature or address of a
witness, while 169 ballots were cast by unregistered voters, were
unsigned or had not been requested, as required by federal law. Five
ballots were received after the Nov. 17 Florida state deadline and 19
voters cast two ballots, both of which were counted.
The number of flaws exceeded the number of defective ballots because
many of the 680 flawed ballots had multiple defects, the newspaper
reported.
Under Florida law, overseas ballots must bear clear evidence they were
cast on or before Election Day and mailed from outside the United
States, the Times reported. Ballots must have foreign postmarks and
each must have either ``postmarked or signed and dated'' by Election
Day.
GOP FOCUS ON COUNTIES WITH MILITARY VOTERS
The Times study shows the Republicans' main goal was to count the
maximum number of overseas ballots in counties won by Bush,
particularly those with a high concentration of military voters, while
seeking to disqualify overseas ballots in counties won by Gore.
The Democrats were preoccupied mostly with manual recounts in
several heavily Democratic counties.
Benjamin Ginsberg, the Bush campaign's national counsel, recalled those
days as being ``as hardball a game as any of us had ever been involved
in.''
Judge Anne Kaylor, chairwoman of the Polk county canvassing board,
told the Times the combination of GOP pressure and court rulings
caused it to count some ballots that would probably have been
considered illegal in past years.
``I think the rules were bent,'' Kaylor, a Democrat, was cited as saying.
``Technically, they were not supposed to be accepted. Any canvassing
board that says they weren't under pressure Is being less than candid.''
Ari Fleischer (news - web sites), White House spokesman, told the
Times: This election was decided by the voters of Florida a long time
ago. And the nation, the president and all but the most partisan
Americans have moved on.''
Oh, you mean "Let's sweep this under the rug", Ari?
posted on July 15, 2001 10:47:23 AM new
This is hardly all of shennengins that the Republican party did to cheat in this last election. I just heard the report on CNN and they said that even making these correction, Bush would still have won by 249 votes versus the official 680 votes. But if it ever goes pubic with just how many ballots were forged on both sides of the race, it would be a clarion call to re-invent secure voting procedures.
So, when you want to talk about electing a third-party candidate, remember that they can not forge as many ballots as the two parties can. So, forget about a third party -- revolution is the only alternative that they are giving us.
posted on July 15, 2001 11:57:09 AM new
Thanks for providing the link. I found it entertaining in regards to the few paragraphs you choose to omit. Did you agree with the complete article.
posted on July 15, 2001 11:58:59 AM new
How refreshing All along, I have been saying "what we need is a good old-fashioned REVOLUTION.."....
Well, we are stuck with the stupid slob; but rest assured that the now Democrat-controlled Senate has made Voting Reform a top-most priority, so that was can say: "NEVER AGAIN"...
Ken, may I Email you with a problem about Firewalls, please? Did ot want to bother you without warning you
posted on July 15, 2001 12:12:19 PM new
Nobody should be surprised to find out that both sides cheated. The only difference was, the Republicans cheated better than the Democrats did. They stole the election, fair and square.
posted on July 15, 2001 12:22:13 PM newNobody should be surprised to find out that both sides cheated.
Here's the second paragraph of the article, one of the paragraphs that krs choose not to cut and paste.
The newspaper, which conducted a six-month probe into the closest presidential election in U.S. history, said its study found no evidence of vote fraud by either the Republican or the Democratic parties.
posted on July 15, 2001 12:24:57 PM new
Florida has been manipulating the vote count since 1860 with tactics such as literacy tests, poll taxes, fear and intimidation. Disinfranchising the black population has been their number 1 priority for over one hundred years.
posted on July 15, 2001 01:20:39 PM new
I wouldn't consider cheating to be limited to the narrow parameters that define vote fraud.
Anyway, why not go to the original New York Times article that this Yahoo story reports on? The title is "How Bush Took Florida: Mining the Overseas Absentee Vote"
posted on July 15, 2001 01:54:49 PM new
revolution is the only alternative that
they are giving us.
I distinctly remember them teaching us in school that that was OK in the 1700's but a no no today. In fact it could get you sent to the principle's office.
posted on July 15, 2001 02:20:18 PM new
Hi Shosh!!.......laughing hysterically!!!....."Well, we are stuck with the stupid slob..."....you anti-word mincer!
posted on July 15, 2001 10:08:53 PM new
Is it just me or does Dubya drive you crazy to watch him on TV? I wonder what the other countries are saying when they watch him? Do they still see us as a world leader?
Another thing that really bothers me ....
Anyone who watched that election saw the blatant cheating going on. Why did they get away with it?
posted on July 15, 2001 10:43:46 PM new
Donny,
there are several reports out, and many more coming no doubt, about the manipulations of absentee ballots. A few more are:
posted on July 16, 2001 08:59:16 AM new
Information about this is coming in fast now.
There are the beginnings of a call for formal investigations, and at least one proposal the Kathleen Harris be charged for her parts in the vote ripoff.
posted on July 16, 2001 09:02:14 AM new" ... but rest assured that the now Democrat-controlled Senate has made Voting Reform a top-most priority ..." -SHOSH-
Huh?
It would make me most happy to see the federal governement mandate voting reform, no matter which party proposes it, so long as the science is there. The fact of the matter is that ensuring an honest vote count is a comlex process and every single method of fruad is going to have to be taken into account. That's because that no matter how great an effort is made to keep cheating from happening, cheaters will be inventing new ways to stuff the ballot boxes.
One thing that I propose is that we drop the old english policy of denying voting rights to citizens convicted of felonies. In my opinion, that would drastically cut down on the number of felony convictions in America. Why do you think that a dispropotionate amount of felons are black? (there are more white people in poverty and in crime-ridden neighbobhoods than there are black people in total in this country).
posted on July 16, 2001 09:23:33 AM new
An interesting interaction with your friend, or someone else you know.
You say: "I see they've now discovered that Gore actually did win Florida".
Reaction with 50% probability:
"I knew it all the time. When did they figure it out?"
Flunk.
The truth is:
-Bush won Florida.
-If 3 (or 30) organizations do their own recounts, there is no reason to believe that any or all of them will get a number which more correctly reflects the results of the actual election than the results which were used to select the sitting president. It's like asking 30 people sitting behind home plate if the last pitch was a strike or a ball.
-As much as we wish it were not true, elections are messy in the marginal 1/2 of 1%. That is, 1 vote in 500 will require some decision which can be subsequently questioned. Election results are purely political, in the sense that the vote is decided purely on the politics of the whoever's making the ruling,
at around 1 vote in 50,000. These number vary from location to location. Florida has taken steps to reduce the questionable numbers, and probably will do so, but there will always be some messiness.
posted on July 16, 2001 09:53:45 AM new
Let's take all of the questionable or objectionable absentee votes away from Bush. I agree 100%. Now what? Bush still won by 249 votes. Wouldn't he still be President?
posted on July 16, 2001 11:27:55 AM new
Not to mention, that really shows the intelligence of those voters that mistook the name "Buchanan", for "Gore". I can't see the similarities. It scares me that people like that actually vote. If they can't read the guys name how in the hell are they supposed to make an educated vote? What are they voting on - what issues? Do they even understand the issues, if they can't tell the difference between Buchanan and Gore on a 3rd grade ballot? Enlighten me.
posted on July 16, 2001 11:49:01 AM new
So they're dumb.
Big sh*t. Dumb adults are allowed to vote too.
But it's not that they're dumb. They're not dumb, they're elderly. Let me tell you, it was a frightening thing to watch my robust, sharp as a tack octogenarian grandfather turn into a slow old man in a relatively short time. He had cataracts in his eyes. You think he could see so well? While the temptation to write those folks off is easy, I could easily imagine my grandfather plugging in the wrong hole because of poor ballot construction.
Those ballots were constructed poorly enough that they gave several thousand votes to Pat Buchanan in a district that no way had more then 1 or 200 hundred who would vote for Buchanan in their wildest dreams.
Yes, I know. You get to vote once and those ballots were certified as acceptable for use in an eleection and Bush is the president.
BUT -- Bush slipped in through the back door. You can't deny that. He had technicality piled on top of technicality piled on top of human errors compounded by a kooky spolier candidate and a fortunate partisan court decision in his favour. He has no mandate for any of his proposals which were rejected in large numbers by the voters of America. Yes, he's still president anyway but that can be corrected in 2004.
posted on July 16, 2001 08:58:12 PM new
The last several administrations and both parties have done the worst and most lasting damage not in the details of specific conduct but in the broad picture that the sum of all these actions have destroyed any shred of dignity and honor connected with the Office of the President.
posted on July 16, 2001 11:16:21 PM new
Tonite on CNN, they reported that 6 MILLION votes across the country were mishandled in some way. I wonder if they're going to do anything about it?
posted on July 17, 2001 12:17:43 AM new
Probably not, because they know that when its all said and done, democrats and republicans are equally dumb, and they probably screwed up 3 million each. That still doesn't get us anywhere. As far as the spoiler goes, that is the real reason that Bush won - no question, because of Nader. However, the same argument could have been used to elect Bush over Clinton in "92 if not for Perot. And speaking of mandates, Clinton never had one in his entire 8 years. Less than half of registered voters voted, and less than half of them voted for him. So what? He was still the president. As is Bush. The court had no real effect on this, because without the court, after all the recounts, Bush still had more votes. Even if you remove all questionable absentee votes - he still had more votes than Gore in Florida. Gore just didn't have enough votes, plain and simple.
posted on July 17, 2001 05:12:31 AM newGore just didn't have enough votes, plain and simple.
Of course he did. Katherine, Jeb, and the Supreme Court just made sure that they weren't counted.
A little less than 3 1/2 years left, and we'll be rid of the idiot for good. I can hardly wait.
posted on July 17, 2001 07:18:47 AM new
"Of course he did. Katherine, Jeb, and the Supreme Court just made sure that they weren't counted."-katydid
Really? I know you've heard that alot from some of the brilliant folks on this board, but that doesn't make it true. Is there any evidence that this is the case, or do you just "know" that this is the case?
