ashlandtrader
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posted on July 19, 2001 09:59:58 PM
My daughters are 7 and 1 1/2. The 1 1/2 year old is picking up new words all of the time and we carefully covering "please" and "thank you", every chance we get. She can now say thank you and it even almost sounds clear now. (And I have to add that it is adorable-- but I am a little biased.)
So if she can say it at 1 1/2 then why can't the cashiers in the fast food places and the grocery stores (and everywhere else) remember to say it as well. It drives me batty. SO many times we will be out buying something and at the checkout I will say "thank you" only to hear "uh-huh", or worse, "yep". I find myself wanting so badly to correct them right there and then, but I can't be mom to everyone, so I don't. That is one of my peeves at the moment.
I know I am not alone. Anyone else get annoyed by this?
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Borillar
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posted on July 19, 2001 10:18:41 PM
I used to be upset by the same thing. I eventually realized that good manners and thoughtfulness meant that you were on the right path in life. People who fail to be polite to each other constantly experience bad karma when it comes back around to them. What baffles me are the people that you are polite to get upset at you. Maybe they think that since y9ou are a nice person, they can unload all of their mental illness on you. Maybe that's why no one is polite on the job anymore. Who knows?
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brie49
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posted on July 19, 2001 11:21:55 PM
My solution to the problem is when I am leaving a store and the clerk has not said "thank you," I look the person in the eye and say, "your welcome," smile and walk away. I kind of makes them stop and think, and hopefully will remind them to say it to the next customer.
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pwolf
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posted on July 20, 2001 08:14:24 PM
It's probably just that they can't enunciate without choking on their tongue rings. 
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kraftdinner
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posted on July 20, 2001 10:48:21 PM
pwolf - lol!!
It must be localized or something. I'm in Canada but very close to Michigan and New York, and the people couldn't be nicer. I love going there!
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ashlandtrader
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posted on July 23, 2001 12:11:23 PM
Lol about the tonge ring too.
You know what is really interesting is that I live in an area with a lot of farm workers, and we have a large Mexican (American) community here. One thing I have noticed is that nearly every Mexican person I have talked to have had excellent manners. Especially the younger people. I am always impressed by that.
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bunnicula
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posted on July 23, 2001 04:41:27 PM
Unfortunately, the same is not true amongst the large hispanic population in *my* area. "Please" and "thank you" are rarely uttered. In fact, many of the kids (& adults) who approach the reference desk barely speak--they grunt out one or two word demands...some merely fling their cards or assignments onto the desk & say not a word. And then there's the ever-popular interrupting while you are helping someone else & expecting you to drop everything for them...
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KatyD
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posted on July 23, 2001 05:14:04 PM
No doubt the behavior you describe is characteristic of ALL the kids you encounter in your job, Bunnicula, not just the hispanic kids. I have a hard time believing that it is solely the latino kids who behave in the rude manner you describe.
KatyD
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bunnicula
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posted on July 24, 2001 12:31:21 PM
Not solely, no. But in larger percentages as a group...they're at the bottom of the heap manners-wise in my area. Which will no doubt get me branded as a racist for daring to note it.
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Hjw
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posted on July 24, 2001 12:44:39 PM
It wasn't daring to note it...just unnecessarily rude.
Helen
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bunnicula
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posted on July 24, 2001 12:50:17 PM
Now, that's interesting. And no, I don't mean that sarcastically. A unique viewpoint. Goping by it, this entire thread is "unnecessarily rude" for daring to to discuss bad manners.
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Hjw
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posted on July 24, 2001 01:03:47 PM
Well, picking on little hispanic children who are learning to speak the english language is unfair in my opinion. To say that they grunt is out of line.
Helen
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KatyD
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posted on July 24, 2001 01:14:03 PM
But in larger percentages as a group...they're at the bottom of the heap manners-wise in my area.
An interesting observation. But I wonder how you arrive at your "larger percentages", Bunnicula. Could it be that latino kids make up the larger "percentage" of ethnic groups that you come in contact with in your job on a daily basis? In which case, insinuating that young latinos are ruder than, say their white counterparts, is an assumption based solely upon your experience dealing with rude kids, which incidentally happen to be latino by the larger ethnic margin. What your observation doesn't do is lend any evidence nor credence that latino kids are more rude and less mannered as an ethnic "percentage". It's a "kid" thing, unless of course it fits your particular preference to "observe" only those kids who exhibit rudeness AND are latino. 
KatyD
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Hjw
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posted on July 24, 2001 01:43:32 PM
I don't think that we should impute bad manners to any race of people based on the small sample that you observed.
As John F Kennedy said,
"The family of man is not limited to a single race or religion, neither can it be limited to a single city or country. The Family of Man is more than three billion strong. It lives in more than one hundred nations. Most of its members are not white. Most of them are not Christians."
Maybe, bunnicula, since you have the opportunity to work with these children you could teach them the appropriate method to ask for information in the library and the appropriate method to express their appreciation.
Helen
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SaraAW
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posted on July 24, 2001 01:44:19 PM
Enough please! Let's get back on Topic.
Thank you,
Sara
[email protected]
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KatyD
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posted on July 24, 2001 01:52:14 PM
We ARE on topic.
KatyD
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Hjw
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posted on July 24, 2001 02:15:57 PM
 The topic is apparently rude storeclerks?
Helen
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lotsafuzz
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posted on July 24, 2001 04:27:54 PM
picking on little hispanic children who are learning to speak the english language is unfair in my opinion.
Why on earth would you assume that these kids are learning to speak the English language? Certianly you don't assume that all people of Hispanic desent don't speak English.
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Hjw
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posted on July 24, 2001 05:17:06 PM
lotsafuzz
Of course not, lotsafuzz. Only the ones who were "barely speaking, silent or grunting"...according to bunnicula.
Helen
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lotsafuzz
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posted on July 24, 2001 06:09:15 PM
Riiiight.
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Capriole
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posted on July 24, 2001 06:19:50 PM
You get as what you give.
I used to live in El Paso Texas and manners are manners are manners.
Bunnicula, I am kind of embarrassed to read your post. As an educator there are groundrules, even if they are your own.
I am an Air Force Brat and in one of my classes there were some Big Boys (of a variety of races) who showed no respect for any teacher. One southern gentleman social studies teacher addressed everyone as Mr. this or Miss that and by the end of the year, you could feel the respect he gave them rub off.
Kids come along with a lot of esteem issues, sometimes you can't just force it on them, they have to "get it."
I now live in Seattle, White HQ, and the passive agressive rudeness I get here is amazing. I always attribute it to the Northern European-ness, but to be honest, maybe it's the weather.
Around here it's like you are going to follow them home if you even have a minor conversation at a busstop. What's more hilarious is that whenever you are talking to a stranger, it's probably not a local! LOL
And fast food jobs are worse than the crappiest jobs you can think of.
No matter what crap wage you think you're getting by selling on ebay during the lull, I think that McSatan is a crappier job than that.
Besides, Customer Service Jobs are crap. Underpaid, undertrained and basically you are corporate flack jacket.
So when they nod and grunt, I can't worry too much, I thank them, make eye contact and let them know I know they are human.
There is a scene at the end of Scorcese's "Casino" that shows a load of bloated tourists descending into a casino. I can imagine that's what all customers start looking like after a while to people behind the counters with crud jobs, no benefits etc.
But hey, you gotta eat your Big Mac!
(PS you are prolly doing the kid a favor by not feeding her McDonalds, but that's a different thread! )
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Hjw
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posted on July 24, 2001 06:24:56 PM
Absolutely right, Lotsafuzz.
Bunnicula states that hispanic children are
"at the bottom of the heap manners-wise."
Just curious...Do you agree?
Helen
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bunnicula
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posted on July 24, 2001 06:32:31 PM
HJW: Um, no. It's not that they don't speak English...it's just that that is the way many communicate. Desiring to use the computers is condensed into a grunt of "computer!" (or sometimes throwing their card onto the desk). Asking for the restroom key might be "bathroom" or "Gimme the key!" "Whales! (Or simply throwing their homework assignment on my desk without a word).
It is interesting to note that I never said that all Hispanics everywhere follow this pattern. What happens in one geographic area will not mean that all social pockets everywhere are the same. When working in another city that had just as diverse a population & about an equal hispanic population, I didn't have the same observations. In *that* city the hispanic kids (& adults for that matter) weren't observably any ruder than anyone else *and* they managed to use complete sentences when asking for things.
Maybe, bunnicula, since you have the opportunity to work with these children you could teach them the appropriate method to ask for information in the library and the appropriate method to express their appreciation.
Why should a librarian have to teach kids manners? I would think that is a parent's job, wouldn't you? But perhaps not...I once had a boy & his father come to my desk and while I was helping them find the info they needed in a reference book, the boy began picking his nose (I'm talking about 9 years old, not a toddler BTW). Really excavating away--and his father said *nothing* to him. I handed the kid a tissue & told him to please not pick his nose. They went back to their table & I heard the mother ask "What did she say to you?" and then "Well, it's your nose you can pick it if you want to!" Joy.
edited cuz I can't type...
[ edited by bunnicula on Jul 24, 2001 06:35 PM ]
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Hjw
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posted on July 24, 2001 06:33:23 PM
Capriole
"So when they nod and grunt, I can't worry too much, I thank them, make eye contact and let them know I know they are human."
That is considerate and thoughtful...true grace!!!
Helen
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sadie999
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posted on July 24, 2001 06:39:00 PM
ashlandtrader, thank goodness you and other parents like you still believe in teaching manners right from the beginning. Good breeding will always show.
Good manners are taught and then become habit. They're not necessary, but they sure make the world a better place.
And yep, rude people annoy me also.
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hepburn
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posted on July 24, 2001 06:39:31 PM
Smiling at someone and they just look at you like your looney.
Not holding doors open when you have a pile of boxes and cant see over the top.
Cutting in front of a line because you "know" the person there and not caring about the rest of us peasants wayyyyy back there.
Just to name a few.
Bunnicula, it could have been worse. The kid couldve ate it. Maybe Mom picks her nose too, and thats why its ok with her.
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Hjw
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posted on July 24, 2001 06:55:38 PM
bunnicula
As a member of a community, I believe that we can all contribute to the education of children even if we are not their parents. I would love to have your job and the opportunity to work with children.
I am interested in the children in my neighborhood and we get along very well. I share books with them that my children accumulated and I would not hesitate to teach them to say "thank you" if it was necessary. During the summer, I help teach a swimming class for retarded children. If any issue outside that job comes up, I don't hesitate to try to handle it. In other words, I don't think that we should take such a narrow view of our jobs when we are relating to children.
Helen
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hepburn
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posted on July 24, 2001 06:59:28 PM
I help teach a swimming class for retarded children
Tacky word, retarded. I think the PC word is "mentally disabled" or "Special Needs". You should know that, since you like teaching.
[ edited by hepburn on Jul 24, 2001 07:02 PM ]
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Hjw
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posted on July 24, 2001 07:05:54 PM
hepburn
I will always rely on you to keep me on a politically correct track. ROTFLOL
Helen
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hepburn
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posted on July 24, 2001 07:09:50 PM
In other words, I don't think that we should take such a narrow view of our jobs when we are relating to children.
I was just trying to help out, Helen. I aim to please
I have a friend who has a "special needs" child. She would come unglued if someone called her son "retarded" or a "retard".
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