REAMOND
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posted on July 29, 2001 10:23:52 PM new
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20010729_1084.html
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hepburn
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posted on July 29, 2001 10:33:47 PM new
Nothing should surprise anyone anymore. People kill other people at the drop of a hat nowadays. Why? Because they can. Because they know they wont get alot of time. Because they want to. Because they were having a bad day. Because it isnt considered shocking anymore. Have I left out any other "because's"?
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gravid
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posted on July 29, 2001 10:34:55 PM new
I'm surprised he didn't shoot the blind guy also.
Uh - Hep' Because it's fun? Seems like they must think so.
[ edited by gravid on Jul 29, 2001 10:37 PM ]
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hepburn
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posted on July 29, 2001 10:40:37 PM new
Because its a thrill.
Because bleeding hearts will say "dont kill him/er" and he/she knows it.
Because killing someone solves ALL problems. Uh huh.
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REAMOND
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posted on July 29, 2001 10:47:31 PM new
Can you imagine killing someone because they are gay ? What will this idiot do when he finds out the man wasn't gay ? Not that that should make any difference, but apparently that is why he shot him.
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hepburn
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posted on July 29, 2001 11:01:40 PM new
Reamond, Im hoping that while the guy is sitting in a jail cell (presuming he is pleasant to look at), he meets Bubba. He will wind up holding more than a purse, himself, wont he? (Is there an evil grin smiley around here somewhere?)
[ edited by hepburn on Jul 29, 2001 11:06 PM ]
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gravid
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posted on July 29, 2001 11:19:33 PM new
Only honorable thing to do is to eat the pistol when you find out it was a "Opps" even by his own "standards".
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bunnicula
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posted on July 29, 2001 11:22:24 PM new
For the life of me I simply can't understand why some people have such violent reactions to homosexuals. Doesn't make any sense at all.
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hepburn
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posted on July 29, 2001 11:29:38 PM new
Fear. Perhaps because they are in denial themselves, so they lash out to subdue their own desires? I dont know..but thats all I can think of.
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hepburn
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posted on July 29, 2001 11:30:50 PM new
It can also pertain to racists. Why the hate towards someone who has skin color that is different from themselves? I never understood that, either.
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nitrate
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posted on July 29, 2001 11:42:05 PM new
The suspect can't use the gay panic defense with a straight guy.
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bunnicula
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posted on July 30, 2001 12:39:51 AM new
But to the killer, the victim was "gay" simply because he was carrying a purse & in the company of another man. And therefore something to be exterminated. Why such a violent reaction?
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gravid
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posted on July 30, 2001 01:15:30 AM new
It takes years of growing up hearing everyone around you pound it into your head over and over that Queers or 'Coons or
whatever nasty word they have usually a whole collection of slurs, are not people. Anytime a story comes on TV about a crime
they will be sitting there saying "Oh you know it was a X.
Every time someone is dirty or crooked in business or immoral they are "No better than an X."
Every shack is a "X house"
Every old wreck of a junk car is a "X car"
It just peppers their speech all day long everyday. It is truly an obsession.
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and25cents
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posted on July 30, 2001 06:51:48 AM new
Here's an off-the-wall "Because" for ya -
A little over a year ago, here in quiet little ol' Roanoke VA, a man asked someone on the sidewalk where the nearest Gay bar was - he was given directions - he went in, sat on a barstool, drank a beer, then opened fire on the clientele there - (was actually a mixed bar, but a place where Gays did gather). He killed one man and (if I recall correctly) wounded 6 others.
Because?
Because his last name was Gay, and he snapped after years of being kidded and ridiculed due to it.
He is a Vietnam Vet and was undergoing Psychiatric treatment at our local VA hospital
He was sentenced last week - I think he received 4 life sentences.
Rosie
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krs
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posted on July 30, 2001 07:28:15 AM new
"He is a Vietnam Vet and was undergoing Psychiatric treatment at our local VA hospital"
Does inclusion of this information have to do with the rest of your story, Rosie?
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and25cents
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posted on July 30, 2001 07:46:06 AM new
Sorry Krs - was just rattling off the facts as I recollected them - I guess it relates in that it:
1. Explains what he was doing in town - was first thought to be a "drifter"
2. maybe, in some folks eyes, helps to illustrate his particular "because" - although it doesn't excuse it.
Rosie
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krs
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posted on July 30, 2001 07:53:58 AM new
So you say:
"A little over a year ago, here in quiet little ol' Roanoke VA, a man asked someone on the sidewalk where the nearest Gay bar was - he was given directions - he went in, sat on a barstool, drank a beer, then opened fire on the clientele there - (was actually a mixed bar, but a place where Gays did gather). He killed one man and (if I recall correctly) wounded 6 others.
"Because?
"Because his last name was Gay, and he snapped after years of being kidded and ridiculed due to it".
and you say that:
"2. maybe, in some folks eyes, helps to illustrate his particular "because"-although it doesn't excuse it"
Since being under psychiatric care might offer him an excuse in law, that portion of your "illustration" may have relevancy. How do you feel that his being a vietnam vet "illustrates" the particular cause of being named Gay and "snapping" after years of his name being ridiculed?
for ubb
[ edited by krs on Jul 30, 2001 07:55 AM ]
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Pocono
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posted on July 30, 2001 08:06:28 AM new
.
[ edited by Pocono on Jul 30, 2001 08:08 AM ]
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REAMOND
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posted on July 30, 2001 08:13:40 AM new
Getting killed for helping a blind man and carrying your wife's purse. What a world.
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toke
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posted on July 30, 2001 08:53:26 AM new
Ronald Gay's mother and brother apparently blamed his service in Vietnam for the change in his mental health...
http://www.advocate.com/html/news/092900/092900news03.asp
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spazmodeus
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posted on July 30, 2001 09:36:30 AM new
Can't ignore the irony here. Gays and transgendered people are often beaten and sometimes killed, and few ever say a word. But when a straight guy gets killed because he's mistaken for gay , then people sit up and acknowledge that homophobia is a problem.
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REAMOND
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posted on July 30, 2001 09:50:45 AM new
I don't know spaz... I think this story points to just how virulent and mindless the violence is, i.e., just the appearance of stereotyped behavior can get you shot.
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krs
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posted on July 30, 2001 10:04:08 AM new
Agreed. There's no irony in the observation of homophobia, mistaken or not. I don't recall a thread pertaining to an instance of homophobia in which either a gay person or a perceived gay person was killed for the reason that they were gay.
And..whatever the mother and brother (both no doubt world reknown in their respective fields, THOUGHT, the point is that this person committed this act because of his lifelong angst over his name, and said that that was the reason for what he'd done, coupled with the apparent felt anger over the fact that one or more of his children had changed the last name for themself(s) because of similar feelings. The person did not, by accounts, make claim of vietnam service or effect as part of or all of his reasons.
I do have some problems with the title "Severe homophobia", Reamond. Like, what is mild homophobia?
[ edited by krs on Jul 30, 2001 10:33 AM ]
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REAMOND
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posted on July 30, 2001 10:36:50 AM new
I would think "mild" would be not wanting to set next to a gay person on the subway. Medium would be throwing the gay person out of their seat. Severe would be doing physical harm to any degree.
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and25cents
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posted on July 30, 2001 10:54:52 AM new
here's an account that contains the following quote:
"Gay and several family members and friends say that his experiences in the Vietnam War began the psychological problems that finally led him to prison"
http://www.roanoke.com/roatimes/news/story115334.html
The above is just for arguments sake. When I initially posted, I was merely recounting what I recalled from the incident. Just stating some facts of the case, not really making any judgments. But.. just for the record, I also didn't mean to insinuate that drinking a beer or asking strangers on the street for directions contributed to the shootings, either.
Rosie
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Hjw
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posted on July 30, 2001 11:03:21 AM new
Reamond
"I would think "mild" would be not wanting to set next to a gay person on the subway. Medium would be throwing the gay person out of their seat. Severe would be doing physical harm to any degree."
I can't agree with that. Racism, for example, is not determined by your reaction to a member of another race. Neither is homophobia determined by your reaction to an
individual based your opinion of their sexual orientation.
Helen
ed. to clairify
[ edited by Hjw on Jul 30, 2001 11:07 AM ]
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krs
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posted on July 30, 2001 11:13:16 AM new
You mean that there are no degrees of either?
This guy was whacked before he entered the service.
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bunnicula
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posted on July 30, 2001 11:18:40 AM new
Using "angst" caused by your name as an excuse is total BS. A name can be changed if you find it that much of a burden. There is a guy in my bowling league whose last name is Assman about which I am sure he was & is teased--using the excuses of Gay's family I guess we should expect my fellow bowler to go postal any day now.
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krs
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posted on July 30, 2001 11:19:44 AM new
Assman?? He's my brother.
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cariad
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posted on July 30, 2001 02:50:01 PM new
"What he said"
Thank you krs, for saving me some time on the soapbox.
It is to be expected that defense lawyers would try to offer service in Vietnam and PTSD as a defense, if the client has been only as close as a map on the wall. They are only doing the job of trying to find a possible defense.
What ticks me off is the willingness of the general public to accept it as fact, or a given. News article clearly indicates he had problems before going in the service.
cariad
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