posted on August 9, 2001 12:22:47 AM new
shouldn't be allowed to breed.
Last night on the news we had yet another report of a child left in a parked car while the adult went into a store. This time, fortunately, the child was rescued before he died.
Now, it has been highly publicized that in the last few weeks alone several children here in Southern California have died, & others came close to it, because their parents or grandparents left them in the car "just for a minute" while they went into a store. What kind of a mental midget does this--especially in the face of almost daily mention in newspapers & on radio and television of the dangers of doing so?!?
Last night's case was particularly idiotic. The grandmother said the 6 year-old boy didn't *want* to go into the store, so she did as he demanded & left him in the car! Of course, we all know that a six year-old's demands should be met at all times because they know best, right?
You would think this issue would be a no-brainer. But no. There are so many stupid people endangering their kids this way that the police have had to step in and start charging them. Hardly a day goes past without hearing of another case. Geez! I guess it's going to take the threat of jail time to make some folks realize that just maybe leaving young kids in the car on a hot day is not the thing to do...
posted on August 9, 2001 01:02:24 AM new
You would think that if someone were going to leave a kid strapped in a seat or a pet in the car that they would let it running with the air condotioner on. My mother in law has always believed however that it will "ruin" a car's engine to sit and idle for a few minutes. Even in the winter she will sit and freeze her butt off rather than run it for the heater. As usual she - who does not know anything about what makes a car work - believes her friends who are her age and therefore trustworthy over anything the "kids" say. The kids are in their 40's and 50's but if she needs advice about cars or money she will ask some old lady who has never worked a day in her life over her own children. She is also one of these you follow who stops for evey cross road whether there is a stop sign or not. She stopped for a school bus parked on the shoulder of the road with no lights on and caused a spectacular crash as everyone piled up behind her. I guess she was going to sit there until the driver was through taking her break. She still does not understand why it is stupid to stop at random for no good reason in the middle of the street. To her slow is safe and stopped is safer. This year we stopped her driving finally before she killed someone.
posted on August 9, 2001 01:19:17 AM new
It's not a recent thing for people to be charged at least for manslaughter in such cases.
I doubt, bunnicula, that you remember the case in which I was peripherally involved. The wife of the son of one of my wives had picked up a child at SFO to take to her parent's foster home. She pulled into the driveway, opened the car and heard the phone ringing in the house. She went in to answer it and stayed about 20 minutes, having forgotten the child. The child died in the car.
She was arrested and charged first with manslaughter, then down to criminal negligence, and some nine months later the prosecutor decided not to prosecute.
The parent's lost their foster care license and were sued by the family of the mother who was in the woman's prison near Fresno where the child was born.
I thought that she should have been prosecuted, at least for criminal ditzyness, and maybe now she would be. That was some ten or eleven years ago.
posted on August 9, 2001 08:22:22 AM new
Leaving a kid strapped into a car seat with the air conditioner running might not be a good alternative either, it's surprising how quickly a child smaller than you'd think could do it can get themselves out of that car seat and put a car in gear.
posted on August 9, 2001 08:32:49 AM new
Don't leave kids or pets in cars when it's hot. Several times every summer, someone here in Florida does that, and a kid either dies, or is very sick. DON'T DO IT.
posted on August 9, 2001 08:36:46 AM newdonnyYou are so right, and not only that but if you leave the car and A/C on what is to say that it won't overheat and shut down...(the car that is) while you are shopping thinking everything is fine. Not a good idea.
I do leave my car running and locked..no kids or pets inside..to try and eliminate the excessive heat build up even after a quick trip to pick up drycleaning or such.
posted on August 9, 2001 08:55:35 AM new
Actually, in the cases of the 2 fathers who left their babies in the car while they went into work, it's quite possible that dropping the babies off at daycare was not something they did as part of their routine every morning.
With a change in routine, their minds on their day's work schedule, and a quiet, possibly sleeping, baby in the back, I could see how it could happen.
Now, those who purposely run into a store on a quick errand and who erroneously think the child will be just fine for a few minutes, should be charged with negligence.
That negligence could not only result in the death of the child in a hot car, but in the kidnapping of the child by way of a car highjacking.
That's what happened in a DC suburb, which resulted in the horrible death of a young boy.
It only takes a moment in one's life to result in a lifetime of regret for an error in judgment.
There are times when I drive my husband crazy with my what-if attitude. But, there have been other times when he has appreciated my caution.
posted on August 9, 2001 09:33:56 AM new
I don't get it either. Even if your baby is asleep and you have other things on your mind, you are still responsible for that baby. To me there is no excuse. But I also know that no jail sentence will compare to the amount of pain and guilt the parent will have to live with so maybe that is some sort of justice in its own way.
If you are too busy to remember your kids maybe you shouldn't have kids, but that is a whole different argument....
posted on August 9, 2001 10:52:39 AM new
I believe I am thinking of the same case a Femme, but I believe there was only one baby. As, I recall the Mother had asked the Dad to take the baby to the daycare center because she was running late. She was to pick the baby up later. The Dad loads the baby and then picks up a co-worker and off to work they go. They were discussing the business of the day and pulled into the parking lot, parked and went to their jobs. The father received a phone call from his wife who was hysterical: she had gone to get the baby and was told the baby had never been dropped off, she wanted to know if he had the baby. He of course remember the baby at that point and ran to the car...it was of course too late for the baby.
I would assume that at least 4 lives were profondly affected. The poor baby who was lost. The Mother, the Dad and the co-worker.
How would you deal with that. If I was the co-worker, I would probably be overwhelmed myself. Why didn't I think about that poor baby????
I do not believe there is really an acceptable "excuse" for such an oversite resulting in such a tragedy, but I am quite aware of how it can happen.
My son was less than a month old when my sister came for a visit to see her brand new nephew. Midway through her week long visit we were having a really good "catch up" conversation and got on the subject of food. Desert actually. I told her I knew a place that made the finest chocolate sunday I had every had in my life. We decided we had to have one. So we grabbed our purses and headed out the door. We were in the car and backing out of the driveway when I suddenly remember my baby, who was sleeping soundly in his crib! I was shocked and overwhelmed at how easily I had "forgotten" even having him!!!!! It had a lasting affect on me...I became an extremely overprotective mother and I and my only child don't see much of each other, because he finds me "suffocating".
I can understanding it happening, but it doesn't excuse it.
posted on August 9, 2001 12:00:26 PM new
Yup, it's surprisingly easy to forget something, even something as important as a baby.
Every so often, you hear about someone who put their baby up on the car roof, to get the inside of the car ready for the car seat or something, and then drives off, forgetting they left the baby on the roof. It's a terrible tragedy. Consciously choosing to leave your child in a hot car is something different, but I think forgetting is something any one of us could do.
When my kids were little, more than a few times they'd be in their car seat, on the roof of the car, while I got the inside ready for them. We never forgot and drove off, thank goodness. Sometimes I put my purse on top of the car. Plenty of people do that too. Once, a friend of mine put her purse on top of the car and drove off. A few miles down the road she missed her purse and realized what she'd done; she backtracked, but no sign of it. A few years ago, heading out to go on vacation, my husband put his prescription sunglasses on the roof of the car. Down the block, he realized he didn't have them. We went back, and there they were in the driveway, all smashed to pieces, they must have fallen off right away and we'd backed over them. Eighty bucks. Boy were we pissed.
Neither my husband nor my friend are irresponsible or unusually forgetful people, and it's not that my friend didn't care about her purse, or my husband didn't care about his sunglasses. It's just one of those things that can happen to anyone.
posted on August 9, 2001 03:37:23 PM new
My daughter's best friend is the boy next door. They are 8 and 9 years old respectively and have been inseparable since they were toddlers.
I was very worried about him going to football practice tonight. It's about 105 with the heat index right now AND he's was diagnosed with diabetes about a year ago. He came back over a bit ago - because they cancelled football practice!! I'm glad that the coaches in our small town have the smarts to know when it's too hot.
posted on August 9, 2001 06:35:10 PM new
I'm sorry to think there are parents that would let their children go to these practices, when others are passing out and worse. I don't think all the blame should be put on the coaches. I surely wouldn't let my child go, no game is worth that much. (And yes I am a parent.)
[ edited by Barbarasgirl on Aug 9, 2001 06:36 PM ]
posted on August 10, 2001 01:40:42 PM new
Way back when I was but a wee kitten, I went into the hospital to have my tonsils removed. Two beds down from me was a boy with severe burns to both legs and hands. He had been left alone in the car while his parents went shopping, had become bored, and had started playing with the cigarette lighter, setting the car's upholstery on fire.
In those days, parents thought nothing of leaving their kittens, no matter the age, in cars while they did their errands. However, that little boy made such an impact on my mother that she didn't leave any of her kittens alone in the car until we were all much older.
It even affected me. Every time I even thought about leaving the kittens in the car, I would remember that boy and haul the kittens with me.
posted on August 10, 2001 01:59:15 PM new
As the examples show with leaving things on the roof etc sometimes we get side tracked from our usual normal actions. I am sure we have all had the experience of doing something silly like putting the cereal in the refrigerator and the milk in the cupboard. The trouble is there is a chance of doing one of these brain glitch things sometime when we are transporting a baby or flying a jet aircraft and there is no room for error. The legal system has no room in it for human nature with life or death actions so such a error may be unavoidable in reality but still ruin our life because there is no room to forgive some errors for fear we will encourage less vigilance.
posted on August 10, 2001 02:03:36 PM new
The same argument used to be used in regards to drunk drivers. They got away with it because "that could be any one of us."
posted on August 10, 2001 02:47:52 PM new
Well, I don't think driving off with your purse on top of the car (or a baby on top of the car) compares to driving off drunk. When you drink and drive, you've consciously made a calculation of risk. If you're lucky, nothing bad happens. If your calculations don't pan out, someone gets hurt.
When we do something of a "glitch" nature, as Gravid puts it, such as forgetting the car seat is on the roof, putting the cereal in the refrigerator (my father put his paycheck in the fridge one Friday afternoon, that made for a frantic Friday night at our house!), this isn't a calculated decision. Perhaps you calculate by putting the baby on the roof in the first place, but driving off with it doesn't involve a calculation (i.e. we don't assess how much risk there is of the baby falling off.) No one is going to drive off with a baby on the roof of the car after a conscious calculation of - "Well, it's only for half a block, it'll be fine."
Contrary to what Gravid says, it's not the strictness of the margin of error that figures into whether an act is punishable, it's presence or abscence of a conscious act by the person who committed the error. Driving a car leaves no margin for error. Yet, if a man, who was in completely sound health, suddenly has a heart attack at the wheel, loses consciousness, and plows into group of innocent bystanders, we hold him to be not culpable. But, if a person who knows he has a history of seizures refuses to take his medication, loses consciousness at the wheel, and plows into a group of bystanders, we hold him to be culpable. It's not the strictness of the margin of error alone that controls.
"The same argument used to be used in regards to drunk drivers. They got away with it because "that could be any one of us."
Any act that anyone does are has done "could be any of us." That's not the rationale I was trying to illustrate.
posted on August 10, 2001 11:14:18 PM new
We had one here a few weeks ago...a woman left her 3 week old in the car as she "ran into work" to check on things...guess what....she managed the DAY CARE for the Hospital!!!! HELLO!!!!!!!
Keith
I assume full responsibility for my actions, except
the ones that are someone else's fault.
posted on August 11, 2001 10:17:31 AM new
Donny - Very good post. I think you explain the eye of the law much better than what I was thinking was the rational.
Today we went out to some sales and saw a fellow park his car in the sun - windows all rolled up tight and take his time at the sale.
When we walked to our car there was a tiny babby strapped in a car seat in the back with the doors unlocked. Sorry to say he was right behind us and jumped in a drove away before we could call anyone. Unbelievable.
posted on August 11, 2001 05:25:54 PM new
Another good idea is to remember to always keep your car doors and trunk locked. Some children may be able to get into the car but unable to get out.
posted on August 12, 2001 10:59:46 AM new
"If you are too busy to remember your kids maybe you shouldn't have kids, but that is a whole different argument...." I'll second that motion!
Anyway, a few years ago where I live there seemed to be a rash of people leaving babies in the car to die. Interestingly enough, there was one story where a lower-middle-class income person did so and was prosecuted to the max. Now, a week or two later in an incident that was pretty much identical, an upper-middle-class person did the same thing and she wasn't prosecuted at all...Now THAT pissed me off!
posted on August 12, 2001 05:14:17 PM new
We just had a woman take her 2 month old to the bus stop and told some stranger to watch it while she ran back to her house to get her purse and shoes. Both were gone when she came back. They found the kid dead a few days later in an abandoned house - of which there are hundreds if not thousands in Detroit.
The state knew that she was not cpable of raising a child and the court ORDERED her to be given help but it never happened. She is also pregnant.
