posted on August 10, 2001 05:27:38 PM
I don't have any kids, but I have noticed our local Wal-Mart had a display of list from all the area schools of what they except your child to have the first day of school.This list has all the name brand most expensive items they could pick on it,and a long list of back to school supplies.And they won't except any brand other than the ones listed. Most of this stuff certainly isn't nessessary,and I happen to live in an area where these people do well just to pay their bills.And alot of them have more than one child.There needs to be a law against schools doing this.Are they doing this everywhere?
posted on August 10, 2001 05:55:18 PM
I know a family who needs two Webster's Elementary Dictionaries. They are all sold out at every store here so I offered to order them from Amazon They were going to be $24.00 shipped for paperbacks. This family can't afford them.
We are contributing to supply the needed items for 4 kids in 2nd grade. (Each church youth is "adpoting" kids as they can.) We have a teacher in our church who has a classroom full that shows up every year without supplies because they can't afford them, so this is our youth project.
Though we have to buy books and everything else since we hs, it's a lot easier when you can pick what you want to use or buy second hand, recycle to a second kid, borrow, loan, library, etc.
posted on August 10, 2001 06:06:27 PM
What I love is that the list changes every year. Not good enough that the neighbors kid has a dictionary that they used last year in 3rd grade, and your kid is in 3rd grade this year. Like the words aren't spelled the same this year or something.
For that matter, what difference does it make what dictionary you send to school with your kid?
Have you checked half.com? I did a search there and they have the 2000 paperback edition available, starting at under $10. Earlier editions are cheaper.
posted on August 10, 2001 06:27:27 PM
Doesn't anyone know how to say no?
My dear Mother taught me that very early and it has saved a lot of trouble and agravation.
Look at the list and buy what seems reasonable and make them explain the need for anything exotic. If you can't afford it you can't.
When we moved to North Carolina in 1957 I meet a black kid that lived near us who of course would have gone to the segregated black school and he told me he did not go the previous year because he had no shoes. Puts things in perspective.
posted on August 10, 2001 07:14:51 PM
You should have seen the list I got when we lived in NYC - toilet paper, baggies, soap, paper towels, PLUS the list of supplies. And we had to supply the craft pieces for every holiday.
At least in Alabama the schools already have toilet paper.
I buy the full years worth of supplies while the stuff is on sale now. I have reams of paper & boxes of pencils.
posted on August 10, 2001 07:22:23 PMLeave it to modern educators to screw up even the simplest things. Maybe the schools get kickbacks from the stores, who knows.
As an educator (who has just spent 12 hours getting her class ready....not to mention the 16 hour, unpaid, days I've already spent getting ready for the school year) who has spent well OVER $800.00 on supplies for her classroom and students, I resent the hell out of your little remark.
The schools can NOT afford to supply supplies for all the students, and I sure as hell can NOT afford to supply all the supplies for my class.
As for those long lists, pardon ME if I think that students NEED paper to write on, rulers to learn how to measure, ect., ect., ect (God strike us down for asking for a box of tissue for the kids who are sent to school sick). IF someone really can't afford the supplies they should contact the school to make arrangements.
posted on August 10, 2001 07:29:03 PM
Yeah Spaz, it is the *schools* that rip out the backbone of all parents so they can't say NO to their kids demands for the flashiest of everything. Right.
And THEN the damn teachers go and demoralize the kids by setting limits (like, say, don't hit/kick/curse others) which means the parents are FORCED to go buy their kids whatever their hearts desire so they feel better.
posted on August 10, 2001 07:31:55 PM
Poverty pisses me off. There is no excuse for these lists of required school supplies when there are children in the neighborhood who cannot afford them.
What in the hell are educators thinking or do they think?
I can remember a boy who came to school with no shoes.
posted on August 10, 2001 07:37:54 PM
School supplies should be a primary consideration in the school budget. Neither teachers or children should be required to provide them.
posted on August 10, 2001 07:47:11 PMWhat in the hell are educators thinking or do they think?
School supplies should be a primary consideration in the school budget. Neither teachers or children should be required to provide them.
Well Gee, wish *I* had thought of that, but I'm just a dumb educator who don't do that thinkin' stuff.
*MAYBE* the school district is just as strapped for cash as the teachers and parents are and we are all doing the best we can to TEACH our students so that the cycle of poverty can stop.
Of course, the fact that the teachers are spread thin from demands from all fronts certainly doesn't take away the *enjoyment* of getting kicked by people who don't know what they are talking about.
posted on August 10, 2001 07:55:55 PM
Schools are spread thin.
Teachers are spread thin.
Parents are spread thin.
Not any of them have the money it takes to provide a good education and the necessary supplies to our kids.
How did you vote the last time it was proposed to increase your property taxes?
How did you vote in the last presidential election? For the party that always always sides with the rich or the party that at least occasionally realizes that working class folks are real human beings?
Blame the educators - that's exactly what the sleazeball politicians want you to do - while they smile greedily rubbing their hands together coming up with some lovely way to take your tax money and put it in the hands of one of their rich contributors.
posted on August 10, 2001 07:57:54 PM
Why can't they teach the basics anymore.When I went to school, Calculators weren't allowed let alone you having to have a brand name one.They didn't make you buy fancy sissors.We were required a pen and pencil,not magic markers,crayons,fancy glue and crap like that and lets not forget all the fancy folders,notebooks and colored paper.We started school with very basic items,a few new cloths and a pair of shoes that would have to last the school year.Its no wonder these kids of today can't even count change,the schools are too busy teaching them crafts.
posted on August 10, 2001 08:05:57 PMFuzzy: I don't know what's on your school's list of supplies, but I remember stuff like certain kinds of notebooks(that were going to be used to take notes, not for any specific projects), computer disks(just in case they needed to download information for a report sometime during the year), tissues(just in case they were sick on the first day of school), highlighter pens(for books they weren't allowed to write in), and other such dreck.
I told the teachers that none of that stuff was necessary for the opening day of school and the kittens would have it when necessary. Oh no, the teachers said, the kittens MUST have all the dreck on the lists. I snorted and the kittens started class with a semi-filled list. Some of the stuff never came into use throughout the year so we saved money by not having bought the dreck.
Plus, being overseas, frequently the stores didn't have whatever particular brand a teacher requested and *gasp* the teacher had to make do with students who had generic crayons, pencils, notebooks, etc. And guess what? Class went on as usual.
posted on August 10, 2001 08:09:08 PM
Hello to you too, fuzz.
Sorry if my post rubbed you the wrong way, but I've had a lot of bad teachers in my time, and I have a general distrust of school systems.
Doesn't make you a bad teacher, or your school system out of touch with reality. But no matter how angry you get, those bad elements are out there. I've experienced them.
IMHO, something is seriously wrong when a teacher has to spend $800 of her own money for class supplies. Something is seriously wrong when parents have to spend hundreds of dollars on basic supplies too.
These "school lists" seem to be a relatively new thing, having come into popularity in the last four or five years.
How is it generations of American kids managed to get through school for so long without them. How is that now they can't. What changed so dramatically in recent years?
posted on August 10, 2001 08:10:42 PMAnd guess what?
I'd guess that the teacher scrambled to cover the shortage OR had to change his/her lesson and, therefore, probably had to eleminate objectives. He/She then probably had to retool his/her schedule (that s/he spent many, unpaid, hours working on) so that the objectives that must be taught could be covered.
But that is just a guess. (One that is supported by experience, but just a guess).
Edited to add: Of course, you can take my post with a grain of salt since I'm just one of those dumb educators.
posted on August 10, 2001 08:16:38 PMteach the basics anymore.When I went to school, Calculators weren't allowed
This is the kind of CRAP we are talking about. Any teacher that can't teach math with out every kid in the class having a calculator should be thrown out on their butts. You wonder why kids that in the 11th grade can't even make change??? Ask a kid in the 9th grade what 8 X 12 is, and they have to pull out a calculator.
I don't need teachers teaching my kids to push buttons, teach them to think.
Pencils and paper... No problem.
Send my kid home, and they tell me the "the Teacher told me to get on the internet and...." Bullcrap. We now have to provide internet service for our kids?
Books. Why can't the schoools use the same math books for more than 3 years? Does simple Algebra change every three years? I know the Algebra book my daughter used isn't the sameone her brother used 3 years later. Why? Wonder why Schools plead that they don't have funds?
posted on August 10, 2001 08:20:26 PM
So Microbes, how deep was the snow when you had to walk to school, uphill both ways?
Just a FYI: Calculators are part of the curriculum (I don't have my guide next to me, so I can't give you the grade level). Don't like it? Talk to the rule makers (who, BTW, aren't the teachers).
I should have made it clear in my first post that I was referring to the educators on the school board.
I did make a second post to point out that neither students or teachers should be required to provide lists of school supplies.
In poor neighborhoods, money can be appropriated for school supplies. Local businesses and fund raising events might be a temporary answer until the school board is straightened out. I find it very hard to believe that a school board can draw up a school budget without consideration of paper, pencils, crayons and books. This is totally incredible to me.
In our neighborhood, for example, they just installed in front of every elementary school expensive signs to let the community know the schedule of events. Nobody looks at these signs and they are a total waste of money which would be better spent on books
and school supplies.
Somebody needs to get in touch with the school board and raise hell.
posted on August 10, 2001 08:29:37 PMDon't like it? Talk to the rule makers (who, BTW, aren't the teachers)
Point taken.
But You can't tell me that simple algebra can't be taught with out calculators. I know better. You know better too. I also know the schools around here don't just say buy your kid a calculator, they tell you the exact model you have to buy. Want to bet that NO STORE in the area has that model for less than $40? Want to bet that 3 years later, when another one of my kids takes algebra, that it will be a different model calculator?
Now, as a teacher, you tell me, does the math "sink in" better if they do it on a calculator, or if they do it with a pencil?
posted on August 10, 2001 08:45:46 PMFuzzy: You missed something important there-the fact that a lot of times THE LISTED SUPPLIES WEREN'T AVAILABLE. If the kids couldn't get them, neither could the teacher. Yet school went on, the kids learned, and everyone made do.
And coming from a small community where we knew the teachers socially, I know for a fact that the teachers did not buy the supplies themselves. They worked with what the kids could get or the parents were willing to get. And surprise, they were still able to teach the kids even without the supplies.
When it came to getting my kids new shoes for school or buying them every specialized notebook each teacher wanted instead of generic notebooks, guess what came first?
When I see schools where a bunch of kids share a notebook and one textbook yet they still learn, you can't convince me that all the nonsense on those supply lists are crucial for the education of our nation's children.
posted on August 10, 2001 08:52:37 PM
They get to use calculators now? How long before cheat sheets become standard classroom equipment too?
We had to work out every math problem on our own. If the teacher even suspected you used a calculator on your homework, you'd get an incomplete.
I also think this "go on the internet to find ..." is a bunch of baloney. How about, "Go to the library to find ..." I'm not opposed to familiarizing kids with the internet, but not at the expense of the basics.
posted on August 10, 2001 08:56:08 PM
Just pulled my school list out of the bottom of a pile that I haven't gotten to yet tonight:
3rd grade:
5 #2 pencils
1 bottle of glue (8 oz.)
1 single-subject spiral notebook
4 folders with pockets
1 backpack (opinional, but recommended)
1 large box kleenex
4 pkgs wide-ruled paper
2 erasers
4th grade:
(same as above with these additions):
1 blue ballpoint pen
1 box of crayons (24 count)
3 single subject notebooks
1 box of markers
5th grade:
(same as 3rd with these additions):
1 red ball point pen
1 black ball point pen
1 pencil bag to fit in binder (No pencil boxes)
Optional: 1 box of colored pencils
For the record, I also requested a ruler on my list.
Also, there are no recomendations for any brand. (I lucked out and found sissors for 39 cents each so those didn't go on the list).
Unless you have been on the other side of the desk, you really don't know what is invovled in teaching (on an educational or personal level).
posted on August 10, 2001 09:02:04 PM
My husband's ex-wife was an elementary school teacher. Every year they spent hundreds of dollars out of their own pockets to supply the kids and the classroom.
I know it's tough. I see what the teachers are given by the school district (not much). Every year we get a list from the teacher of what is needed in the classroom, and pass out a list to the parents. Some just can't afford to contribute, but we always seem to pull it together. Last year the district wouldn't even replace the damn pencil sharpener that was broken, so guess who bought a new one.
What are we going to do? Make the kids go without?
In the state of Maryland we voted for the right politicians and our real estate taxes are raised on a regular basis so there is no excuse for not appropriating enough money to pay for basic school supplies.
posted on August 10, 2001 09:07:12 PM
spazmodeus, I can't tell you how much your blessing means to me. Anyway.
Microbes: Missed your post up there. In a perfect would I would LOVE to use both calculators and the 'old fashioned' method. Why? Well, not to get to deep into educational theory (as it is late and I've been up to my eyeballs in it all day) but it is a matter of focusing both on the process and the end result. (I don't teach Algebra, which is probably good for everyone invovled), but I do know the use of calculators is requried in upper levels.
