REAMOND
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posted on October 1, 2001 03:39:27 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/reuters20011001_237.html
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toke
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posted on October 1, 2001 03:44:05 PM
How nauseating. Sounds like His Eminence was a battered wife. Not impossible.
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spazmodeus
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posted on October 1, 2001 03:50:52 PM
He's brand new in that position. He'll be lucky if they don't run him out of town on a rail. How reassuring for the families of the victims, to hear one of God's representatives on Earth, suggest that we ourselves are to blame for this barbarous attack.
Self-blame is a longstanding religious tradition, though. In the old days, it was common for men of the cloth to blame the people's sins for whatever disease or calamity fell upon the populace.
I know! Let's all don hair shirts and self-flagellate. Mortify the body. That will make our troubles vanish.
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toke
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posted on October 1, 2001 03:55:40 PM
spaz...
There have been plenty of implications...right here in the RT...that we, ourselves, are to blame for the deaths in NY. Have you been reading?
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deliteful
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posted on October 1, 2001 03:57:20 PM
Isn't he saying the exact thing that many on this board has been saying. I keep reading on threads here about how it is the US's actions that caused the terrorists to hate us. So what is different about what he has said?
Proud American!
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spazmodeus
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posted on October 1, 2001 04:00:49 PM
I've been trying to read them, toke (and I think this thread is a good example of one such attempt) but most times I get less than halfway through before I puke on my screen, rendering the diatribes blissfully unreadable.
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hjw
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posted on October 1, 2001 04:03:14 PM
Exactly right. He recognizes that in order to eliminate terrorism, we have to find out what causes so much hatred and deal with it.
Helen
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toke
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posted on October 1, 2001 04:04:15 PM
Yeah...well, that's what I like the most about you, Spaz.
We just need to hang together...for comfort, at least.
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spazmodeus
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posted on October 1, 2001 04:09:21 PM
He recognizes that in order to eliminate terrorism, we have to find out what causes so much hatred and deal with it.
How about those who enable it?
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REAMOND
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posted on October 1, 2001 04:11:10 PM
What the Cardinal has actually said is that US policy should be based on terrorists attacks.
There will be Nations that hate us regardless of what we do. There are nations that hate us just because we are successful, because we enjoy freedoms, because of our religion or lack thereof, because of our diversity, because we are powerful.
There is a laundry list of reasons why the Japanese hated the US before Pearl Harbor, including cutting them off from raw materials. There is a laundry list of reasons why Germany caused WWII, including the sanctions from the treaty from WWI.
If this blame the victim strategy keeps up, I can confidently predict that there will be a picture in every public building in America of bin Laden within 20 years.
Bending US policy one iota due to this attack is the unthinkable. Terrorism is SUPPOSED to be the foreign policy arm of these fundementalist muslim states. Making terrorism effective guaranttees more attacks.
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toke
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posted on October 1, 2001 04:11:57 PM
Spaz...
You prove your infinite goodness by responding to that...uh...
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deliteful
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posted on October 1, 2001 04:18:55 PM
Was there more to that story than just the one page I got on my screen?
Proud American!
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hjw
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posted on October 1, 2001 04:25:35 PM
Toke
"You prove your infinite goodness by responding to that...uh..."
Why don't you finish your sentence?
Helen
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donny
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posted on October 1, 2001 04:32:44 PM
Policy? What kind of nut is this guy?
The answer is simple - They hate us because we're beautiful. (That's why everyone's always hated me, anyway.)
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krs
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posted on October 1, 2001 04:37:51 PM
How anyone can be so insular as not to see that we ARE the enablers of terrorism is beyond me. In our maddash pursuit of communism through the 1980s we ran amock on the little places that stood either in our way or in opposition to us, all the while as much as ignoring any resentments we may have incurred.
Now, here's the result of our arrogance. You walk on people and they will resist. It couldn't be much plainer. Oh, their methods of resistance are not fair play in your book? Too close to home? Gee, look to our own methods. Why does killing thousands at their home with bombs from high up and far away differ so completely from someone else killing us at our home with airplanes from high up and far away?
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KatyD
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posted on October 1, 2001 04:39:07 PM
They hate us because we are infidels. That's pretty simple. The other stuff is just political rhetoric, to be dragged out make the chest beaters feel validated.
KatyD
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krs
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posted on October 1, 2001 04:39:28 PM
"That's why everyone's always hated me, anyway". Me too, Donny, still do. Let's run away.
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KatyD
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posted on October 1, 2001 04:42:07 PM
Now, here's the result of our arrogance. You walk on people and they will resist. It couldn't be much plainer.
Oh, you go too far, Ken.  No amount of so called "arrogance" justifies it.
KatyD
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KatyD
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posted on October 1, 2001 04:44:57 PM
Why does killing thousands at their home with bombs from high up and far away differ so completely from someone else killing us at our home with airplanes from high up and far away?
We've given them fair notice. About 3 weeks so far. And a choice. Hand over Bin Laden. Close down terrorist training camps. Their choice.
KatyD
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toke
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posted on October 1, 2001 04:46:27 PM
You're right, krs. It is your fault they killed the 6,000. Your country...your fault. How ever will you make it up to New York...and their 6,500 dead?
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donny
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posted on October 1, 2001 04:47:00 PM
"Me too, Donny, still do. Let's run away."
Okay, Krs. You go that way <----. I'll go this way ----->
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gravid
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posted on October 1, 2001 04:50:16 PM
It is no different than you making some poor slob envy and hate you because you worked hard enough to get a TV - and so tempted him - Nay forced him to break in and rip that sucker off to stop your oppresion of him. Now he is a felon and I suppose you are happy with what you have done to him!
Why couldn't you keep the same station as him to avoid upsetting him with your wealth?
Reminds me of a science fiction series that foresaw no-fault laws. If someone killed you because you were a celebrity ot was your fault for being famous. If they robbed you on the sidewalk it was your fault for having money.
People really think like that. A lot of my teachers in school felt that way. Probably because they had a crappy low paying job and felt at home as a victim.
[ edited by gravid on Oct 1, 2001 04:57 PM ]
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krs
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posted on October 1, 2001 04:51:50 PM
Donny, that was my next line. 
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donny
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posted on October 1, 2001 04:57:05 PM
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toke
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posted on October 1, 2001 04:58:22 PM
How anyone can be so insular as not to see that we ARE the enablers of terrorism is beyond me. In our maddash pursuit of communism through the 1980s we ran amock on the little places that stood either in our way or in opposition to us, all the while as much as ignoring any resentments we may have incurred. Now, here's the result of our arrogance. You walk on people and they will resist. It couldn't be much plainer. Oh, their methods of resistance are not fair play in your book? Too close to home? Gee, look to our own methods. Why does killing thousands at their home with bombs from high up and far away differ so completely from someone else killing us at our home with airplanes from high up and far away?
Guess so. Those 6,500 dead deserved what they got. Yessir.
I am SO out of here.
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uaru
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posted on October 1, 2001 05:40:57 PM
toke I am SO out of here.
I understand toke. I looked at some comments and I can't believe they are serious. Then I try to remember never under estimate the naive.
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spazmodeus
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posted on October 1, 2001 05:53:55 PM
What I meant by "enablers" are those who blame themselves for harm done to them, or who try to rationalize acts of brutality (rather than adopting a firm stance of never again), and in so doing leave themselves open to it happening over and over.
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ConnieM
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posted on October 1, 2001 09:09:16 PM
Un-freakin-believable!
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CoolTom-07
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posted on October 1, 2001 09:54:13 PM
"You walk on people and they will resist. It couldn't be much plainer. Oh, their methods of resistance are not fair play in your book? Too close to home? Gee, look to our own methods. Why does killing thousands at their home with bombs from high up and far away..."
Gee, that sounds just like the Russian invasion of Afghanistan. If you recall, the Afghans were whipped until we provided them with the Stingers. Gee, that was a dastardly manuever on our part. And that $150 million in humanitarian aide was just downright insidious.
I was listening to a twit on the radio last night who was endeavoring to make the same points. She said that the disparity of US wealth vs. the 3rd World made their inhabitants "bitter" and prone to being recruited into terrorist organizations. What piffle and twaddle.
Most of the Earth's population is born poor, downtrodden, and with little hope. For a lot, it goes downhill from there. Mexico City has the world's biggest slums and a corrupt and brutal police force. But you don't hear of any peasants trudging across the border to commit terrorist acts (well, not since we hunted down Pancho Villa). They come here to better their lives and kiss the ground when they get here.
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REAMOND
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posted on October 1, 2001 11:21:53 PM
It isn't just "poor" people that are becoming terrorists. The poor are being used as the dupes by some very powerful persons and governments in the region.
The Saudi govt has been funding the fundementalist muslim schools in Afghanistan where the Taliban leaders came from. Saudi Arabia is funding this brand of fundementalism throughout the region.
There are elements in the region that want the world power that they feel their petroleum reserves entitle them to.
The West is held in contempt for many reasons, but one of the main reasons is that we can take a $25 barrel of oil and turn it into far more than $25 worth of goods and services. We add great value to a resource that the Middle East is floating in and can't realize the value the West can create from that resource.
This is a power struggle. In a power struggle, the first rule is - You do not wound the King, you must kill him.
The U.S. will be a target whether military force is used or not.
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