posted on November 14, 2001 10:00:47 AM new
The other day my wife noticed an debit on our account by a video rental store which we hadn't even done business with for 3-4 months.
We did owe a late fee which I disputed because the movies were returned on time. The only way they could have come up with our debit card number is if they went back through their receipts. We didn't have a card on file. Obviously your account numbers are not safe even when you use them at legit companies.
Is it legal for a business to make an unauthorized debit on someones bank account?
posted on November 14, 2001 10:28:42 AM new
It's not legal outoftheblue. If you call your bank and tell them, they will reverse the charges. Maybe a call to the Better Business Bureau wouldn't hurt either. Good Luck!
posted on November 14, 2001 11:47:48 AM new
I think the video rental stores make more money from the late fees than they do from the rentals themselves. We've had so many undeserved late fee charges on our account this year, that we ended up disputing in order to get them reversed. Good luck when you call the bank.
posted on November 14, 2001 01:27:10 PM new
My friend has the second oldest video rental store in NJ. I wrote the software that runs the place. When a new person shows up, we take all of his info and the bottom of the form has a disclaimer saying if you steal a tape or never return to pay late fees incurred, we will charge your card. Some notes after 25 years:
1) "I don't believe in credit cards". 991/2 percent of the time these people are deadbeats.
2) "They were returned on time". 100 percent of the time a lie. Our software tracks when it was rented and when it was returned. When the person stands there and jumps up and down that he returned it on his way home Monday, you pull the records and find it returned 6:15PM TUESDAY. If you let this go, pretty soon it becomes a pattern and we have to show the proof, after which there is no problem with this customer again.
3) when we get a chargeback, we send the bank a copy of the rental agreement, the customer's signed receipt, and a copy of the return record and the chargeback gets reversed.
4) In the begining when vcrs were $1000, you could do business on a handshake and NEVER had a problem. Today people "lose" tapes and are astounded that they cost money (typically $110.00 or so) and should pay for it. Today beside signing their info sheet (with the rental terms on it), customers have to sign for each rental (which also has the terms on it). This prevents the "I didn't rent that" stuff. Our rental agreement also says that if you let someone rent on your account, YOU are responsible for it. This prevents the "My sister rented that, see her about it", and why we also do not rent unless an existing balance is paid.
5) As to "making more money from late fees", we set up our late fee to be the same as a rental, so the customer didn't commit an offense, he just "rented" again.
I would GUARANTEE that Video stores have more rip-offs than virtually any other business because of the attitude of "it's just a movie".
posted on November 14, 2001 03:34:41 PM new
DeSquirrel
So what you are saying is that even if you don't have a card number on file. All they asked for was a drivers license and a phone number. That it is ok for them to search through their receipts, find your debit card number and run an unauthorized transaction?
If that's the case I will never rent another movie.
I was under the impression that, unless you gave the person your debit/credit card number up front when you signed up that they had to have a signed receipt to make a charge. I could be wrong because I don't know all of the rules.
Anyway, my bank agreed with me. Maybe the video store won't.
posted on November 14, 2001 03:43:08 PM new
This is the reason I like renting from grocery stores.
I once rented a movie at QFC and returned it to Safeway by mistake. When everything was finally worked out I was not charged a late fee, even though the movie was finally returned a couple of days late.
posted on November 14, 2001 04:38:07 PM new
If you Used your Debit card at the video rental store your card number was On record.
we have two rental stores around here each works a different way one just requires a name and phone number you pay for your rental at the time of Return they have a cut off point for a days rental if you are more then 30 mins late when you go in they ask if you would like to keep the tape another day since your going to be paying for the extra day.
The other store only wants a name a phone number but you must pay for the rental with a credit card or debit card, if the reantal is late being returned your card is charged you do have a right to go to your bank and dispute it but if the rental company shows proof of late return your just out of luck.
its best to read the small print on your rental reciept or on the wall in the rental store for there rules..
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
Email [email protected]
[ edited by dman3 on Nov 14, 2001 04:40 PM ]
"The other store only wants a name a phone number but you must pay for the rental with a credit card or debit card, if the reantal is late being returned your card is charged"
That would make sense to me.
What ticked me off is that I talked to them and told them I was not paying that particular charge and the reason. I thought the matter was closed after talking to them. Then, about 3 months later, the charge shows up. Nothing like this has ever happend before.
posted on November 15, 2001 12:27:14 AM new
First of all I didn't call anyone a liar. I said anyone who would tell US that, WOULD be a liar. I don't know where you guys live, but in NJ you don't hand out $100 video tapes based on a person's good looks. Now, of course, if you want to rent with some outfit that keeps their records on the back of greasy envelopes, then you should have your head examined and not complain about problems.
We rent only to people with a CC (card is also processed to see if it is stolen or "at the limit" when a person joins. If you don't have a CC you have to leave a cash deposit for the dealer cost of what you rent (typically say $65). We don't "search through trash" for later problems. Our rental agreement says we keep the number on file and when and how we will put a charge against it.
Kraft
Renting is kind of like the Audi acceleration problem. The guy says he had his foot on the brake and the car "accelerated" wildy. Even when shown film of their foot stomping the gas pedal, they still insist it was on the brake. We keep all records, when a person says he didn't rent it, we pull the original ticket and his rental sign up sheet and compare signatures. All paperwork and receipts our system generates are time-stamped by the computer. We don't "guess" or "fib" about anything. When returned, a late film is automatically billed and stamped with the return time. A human can intervene to disallow the bill, but a record is STILL made to prevent employees from helping "buddies".
The thing about computers monitoring everything is that there are years of history. 90% of people are ok, they know when they are bad and have no problems. We even tell many "forget it". The other 10 percent seem to have ALL the problems. The guy that "lost" a film 2 yrs ago at his mother's wake seems to lose one this week visiting her in ICU.
As for a charge being "unauthorized", what does the rental receipt say about charges?? Initially, we didn't have customer's sign for rentals until people started denying renting an item and even a clerks memory of the actual rental wouldn't stand up.
If the store has no such SIGNED agreement and the rental transaction has no terms and is not signed, more than likely having the charge reversed will stick. Some CC policies are tougher than others. In our experience Amex is the hardest to make the charge stick. Our procedures became much more elaborate after Amex negated a few of our charges years ago.
posted on November 15, 2001 07:05:02 AM new"They were returned on time". 100 percent of the time a lie
Your software may not make mistakes but it's only as good as the humans using it. And they do make plenty of mistakes.
Recently returned movie a day before due date. Know it was returned well before time because my daughter & I were having an argument all the way to the store, in the store & home from the store.
Week later, get $80 bill for movie never returned. Speak to manager, tell him the facts. He says it happens and will probably find it during inventory.
Keeps rocking along for weeks, continuing to get bills. Finally go to district manager (national rental chain). SURPRISE, SURPRISE, they "find" it during the inventory search, never checked in & put back on the shelf in the wrong location.
Profuse apologies from local manager & district manager along with nice size gift certificate. Problem is, the people (often high school kids) sometimes don't check the movies in correctly, or forget to check them in at all and put them in the wrong location. Guess who then gets to prove they returned the movie correctly?
I've had situations where the movie was returned in plenty of time but the kids never got around to scanning it until it was after the due time. Gotten so bad, I've taken to making them scan it in when I return it right then & there.
So your software may be great and infallable, but if the people aren't, then it's pretty bold to be saying 100% of the time the customers are lying.
posted on November 15, 2001 09:28:51 AM new
LoneHaranger
"Your software may not make mistakes but it's only as good as the humans using it."
the humans do not decide when and how to bill. There are no scanners and items have to be keyed in with item numbers that have check digits.
" because my daughter & I were having an argument all the way to the store, in the store & home from the store. "
Periodically, someone says its not late because they know they rented it Thurs on the way to getting their cat dyed.
You check the rental date, see that it was Wed, pull Wed tickets, find their receipt at 6:52PM.
The only thing that could occur resembling your scenario is if someone runs in, throws a return unseen on the counter and then someone else unseen steals it.
When a person returns a film, their receipt is stamped with the date & time. We give out prizes and freebies based on numbers of stamped receipts to encourage people to hold on to them for a while, because our agreement says "the only proof of return is a stamped receipt).
posted on November 15, 2001 12:11:31 PM new
longgrass
I guess you don't know what a check digit is. A check digit is an integer that is derived from a formula operating on the item number. So if the item number is 5 digits long, a 6th is added and that is the number on the item. When the six digits are entered, the 5 causes the system to calculate the 6th and if it doesn't match the 6th one entered the system won't take it.
posted on November 15, 2001 12:51:24 PM new When a person returns a film, their receipt is stamped with the date & time. We give out prizes and freebies based on numbers of stamped receipts to encourage people to hold on to them for a while, because our agreement says "the only proof of return is a stamped receipt).
I could honestly care less about prizes and freebies...Make me deal with a line again just to return a movie and its the last $3.24 of mine you'll get. My independant video store across the street gets very crowded after everyone gets home from work. Sounds like paranoia to me...and what does NJ got to do with anything?
posted on November 15, 2001 12:56:39 PM new
DeSquirrel, Blockbuster recently settled a class action lawsuit over so-called "late returns". Seems the "late return charges" were a BIG percentage of their income, and finally somebody decided to do something about their bogus charges. We have accounts at two franchises in our area, and both of them would claim that videos were late, and try to charge us. Usually my husband would go ahead and pay not knowing that I had returned them on time (I always refused). The last straw came when my husband dropped off one on his way to work at 4:30 A.M. and it wasn't due until midnight that night. You guessed it. They charged a "late fee" for late return. A month or so ago we got a letter from Blockbuster with free rental certificates to "settle" the class action suit filed over these "late returns". It was all a scam.
posted on November 15, 2001 01:19:34 PM newThe only thing that could occur resembling your scenario is if someone runs in, throws a return unseen on the counter and then someone else unseen steals it.
Yeah, whatever. I'm sure in your book this never could happen and the large gift certificate they gave us was just an error.
Periodically, someone says its not late because they know they rented it Thurs on the way to getting their cat dyed.
Boy, I bet it's just a thrill to rent from you since you are never wrong and the customer never right. Oh, but then I'm sure all your customers just love getting those great freebies. What is it, a box of jujubees?
posted on November 15, 2001 03:01:17 PM new
Actually, compared to the volume, we have very few problems, and always from the same people.
Many people have a dramatically different view of entertainment than any other business. I guarantee you the number of people who incur large late fees and skip is hundreds of times larger than the number that walk into Walmart and shoplift. In today's world nobody accepts responsibility for their actions. It's not MY fault you lost it. It's not MY fault it's late. From the time I hand it to you till the time you hand it back, it's YOUR responsibility. Nobody here would run into Enerprise, throw the keys on the counter and dash out the door.
posted on November 15, 2001 11:51:48 PM new
BlockBuster is the worst. I will never rent there again. 2 movies we rented were due at noon. Because we had an appointment that ran late the movies were returned about 20 minutes late. We were charged for an extra day.
[ edited by outoftheblue on Nov 15, 2001 11:54 PM ]
