posted on October 4, 2003 04:45:20 PM
Then reasonably I am very afraid that there is a whole laundry list of countries that have at least as bad a set of conditions as he says justified this war - not needing to count weapons of mass destruction - any threat to the US - or explicit terrorist ties.
So what is to keep him from starting to work down that list if such flimsy reasons are enough?
Do most people really want a series of foreign wars on the basis we see in Iraq?
posted on October 4, 2003 05:19:31 PM
I hope this a eye opener to these other countries that the US will not be messed with in any way shape or form...
posted on October 4, 2003 05:28:39 PM
Sort of like the same caution I'd feel living next to a deranged homocidal maniac if there was no way to call for help?
posted on October 4, 2003 06:46:34 PM
I agree with twelvepole.
Partial proof to me is before we began the Afghanistan war. Pakistan military leader spoke to his people. One could easily see and hear although he would have preferred not to align himself/his country with the US he said he felt it was in his country's best interest.
Then again, immediately following the beginning of the end of the Iraqi war, it was reported Saddams top people were fleeing to Syria. Syria was accepting them, until Bush's warning not to. By reports we were told they immediately started sending them back to Iraq.
Some of the middle eastern countries don't understand 'peace'. Their religion drives them to want Jews and infidels eliminated off the face of the earth. Most appear to understand strength and power though.
posted on October 4, 2003 07:36:41 PM
It's astounding that you value this war because it was an effective way to produce fear...a sort of muscle flexing exercise to cower other countries. How shameful!
A land ruled by chaos
Award-winning writer Suzanne Goldenberg returns to Iraq, from where she reported on Saddam's fall. But in place of the promised peace she finds a country where lawlessness, violence and fear have filled the void
Suzanne Goldenberg
Saturday October 4, 2003
The Guardian
Iraq under the US-led occupation is a fearful, lawless and broken place, where murder rates have rocketed, 80% of workers are idle and hospital managers despair at shortages of IV sets and basic antibiotics. Police are seen as thugs and thieves, and the American and British forces as distant rulers, more concerned with protecting their troops than providing security to ordinary Iraqis. The governing council they created is simply irrelevant. A mile away from one of the richest oilfields on earth, the queues at petrol stations stretch for hours. "We completely underestimated how broken this system was," says Andrew Alderson, the financial officer of the British-led administration in Basra.
Cont....
[ edited by Helenjw on Oct 7, 2003 08:01 PM ]
posted on October 4, 2003 07:38:35 PM
helen, is that you? I swear, your post reminded me of skylite!
"Be kind. Remember everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." - Harry Thompson
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it." - A Few Good Men
posted on October 4, 2003 07:41:28 PM
Yes, helen. I continue to support President Bush 1, clinton, and the current President in their belief that Saddam needed to be removed from power.
posted on October 4, 2003 09:12:37 PM
It would be interesting to know just what criteria our government uses when deciding things like that. They seem quite happy to tolerate--more, SUPPORT--such regimes as long as it suits their interests...and then cry "foul" when it doesn't. Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
The Pentagon has long been a notoriously badly run agency. It cannot even lock people up in Guantanamo Bay without making a mess of it. It wastes taxpayers' dollars on an epic scale. It buys pork-barrel weapons systems nobody needs; it often simply cannot account for its spending; it hands out jobs-for-the-boys to people like Iran-Contra's John Poindexter. Now it emerges that it has been blithely selling surplus biological weapons equipment on the internet. Why anybody ever imagined that the Pentagon, of all organisations, was competent to manage Iraq is a great mystery of our time. Why Mr Rumsfeld is still US defence secretary is an even bigger one.
posted on October 7, 2003 08:29:44 PM
Linda, I don't know of anyone in the WORLD that didn't want Saddam ousted but the means didn't justify the end result, in this case. It would be like trying to kill a deadly spider in your basement by blowing the house up. It makes no sense.
posted on October 7, 2003 08:33:24 PM
Linda “Their religion drives them to want Jews and infidels eliminated off the face of the earth.”
Linda, you are bearing false witness;
Liar! Deceiver! Servant of Beelzebub, promoting & rejoicing in the war of brother against brother.
You are evil and will surely burn. LOL
The evidence has been put to you before, if you have a brain in your head and the ability to read English, it’s clear.
Again;
To save your soul;
Here are the facts.
Here is a cut’n’paste, which unlike your cut’n’pastes, actually addresses the issue at hand.
2. Whose god orders the most violent plight for nonbelievers while on Earth?
Correct Answer: C. (The Christian god because he ordered his followers to kill all those of a different religion, including family members, friends and even their cattle, whereas the Moslem god simply required the enslaving of nonbelievers .) “If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods . . . thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people . . . If thou shalt hear . . . Certain men . . . have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods . . . Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants ofthat city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword” (Deuteronomy13:6-15). “Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection” (Koran 9:29).
3. Whose god orders the cruelest warfare?
Correct Answer: D. (The Christian god because he ordered his followers to kill all the men inthe towns they invaded, enslaving only the women and children (who sometimes were to be slaughtered as well, along with every other living thing insight.)) “So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates” (Koran 47:4). “And when the Lord thy God hath delivered [a city] into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword: But the women, and the little ones . . . shalt thou take unto thyself . . . But of the cities of these people, which the Lord thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth”(Deuteronomy 20:13-16).
posted on October 7, 2003 10:45:16 PM
LOL KD - Guess he thinks so. Heck, I don't even know who Beelzebub is......but if I've been accused by austbounty...then it must be true. ROFLMHO
posted on October 7, 2003 11:12:19 PM
Linda, I think it has to do with Hitler or Satan. It's weird here, how there's no middle ground. You can't have a differing view, bad hair day, pms, etc. If you do, you're either related to, or a decendant of Hitler or Satan.
posted on October 7, 2003 11:24:57 PM
I agree. We all feel there is so much at stake, that sometimes we forget there's a person behind their monitor that is just freely voicing their position.
Somehow the issues become personal and the insults start. Some of the insults can be easily ignored and at times are really laughable....like me. I don't feel like I'm a Hitler nor Satan...so those statements roll off my back like water on a duck. And I know when I'm voicing my opinions, that at least 1/2 of American's agree with me. [trying to be positive in my thinking here ]
posted on October 8, 2003 03:34:10 AM
Surely I could be forgiven for having used the word evil to describe you because the way I have heard your president bandy the word around, I may have though perhaps, Americans take the word to mean ‘naughty’. LOL
“Their religion drives them to want Jews and infidels eliminated off the face of the earth.”
That was clearly a lie Linda; the evidence has been put before you.
My ‘subjective view’ is that many of the Muslim countries have had it tough.
BUT
The FACT is; that you are willing to make grand assertions on the basis of lies, and on very important issues; ie war.
Insulted Linda???
And supporting a push to war, as you do, is not insulting???
And can you please tell me exactly who in the US I can criticise for killing innocent people, for you to not be insulted??
“I agree. We all feel there is so much at stake” Are you talking about OIL???
Is it true that 72% of serial murderers vote Republican???
posted on October 8, 2003 05:31:21 AM
Hey - If you are sitting in your kitchen having a light supper and a mob of crazed people in robes burst in shoot your family and dog and toss molatovs in the other rooms and retreat to their car chanting Allah Akkabar when the cops come do you think you might just mention that they seemed to share a religeous identity?
And if the cops told you there were lots of them that would never want to shoot you or burn your house down how impressed would you be with that?
Next time you ran into some of these robed chanting fellows would you remember the cops assuances or your own experience?
If they don't want to be identified with the terrorists they can damn well do something to control them. Instead we hear of honored and well supported teachers of this religion getting up in Mosques and preaching mayhem. They don't really HAVE any central authority to tell one of these guys that they are preaching a falsehood, and cut it out.
Trying to say there is no connection between Islam and terror falls on it's face when the terrorists themselves keep assuring us it's true. It's just Bush and his buddies standing up there at the podium wringing his hands like an old women and saying it's not Islam like he wants it to be true. He may be hot to bring it on - but it's really a bigger fight than he wants to take on too. But chanting it like a mantra doesn't make it so.
All the troubles in Ireland had nothing to do with religion either, right Austbounty? But that's your UK buddies so you can't denounce them as flaming jackasses like you enjoy doing to the US. All religion has the ability to inspire violence if history is any lesson. They have always walked hand in hand with politics to control the people.
When your life takes a hit from these crazies you don't see in what way many of them are not violent means much. They aren't the ones you have to deal with. If it's only five out of a hundred so what? That's the five trying to kill you and the other 95 don't mean much fella.
posted on October 8, 2003 07:09:59 AM
Gravid
“Hey - If you are sitting in your kitchen having a light supper and a mob of crazed people in robes burst in shoot your family and dog and toss molatovs in the other rooms and retreat to their car chanting Allah Akkabar when the cops come do you think you might just mention that they seemed to share a religeous identity?”
Did the crazed people in robes shouting Allah Akkabar have American CIA accents???
Why not mention that your PNAC are dominated by a religious/racial identity.
“Bush and his buddies standing up there at the podium wringing his hands like an old women and saying it's not Islam like he wants it to be true.”
Nothing more than lip service!
Just like the $3Mill and Kissinger for the WTC enquiry.
Trying to say there is no connection between the PNAC and terror falls on its face.
There is plenty of evidence to show that something is rotten,
Yet you are still in denial.
The reason I’m not carrying on about the Poms in Ireland is because, the current Pax-Americana is currently a much more grave issue!
