posted on October 6, 2004 10:19:08 PM newIsn't there something else that you could do on this board than remark on how somebody presents an item for debate?
Yes but I think it's a whole lot more fun to do it my way.
John Kerry muttered something about President Bush bringing about a backdoor draft through the use of National Guardsmen in Iraq.
I've got news for you.
If you want to see the draft reinstated, vote for John Kerry.
"Why do you say that?" you ask.
Because if John Kerry is elected president, there is going to be a mass exodus from the U.S. military services.
Anyone who can get out will get out.
Re-enlistment levels will reach all-time lows – at least since the Clinton administration.
Why?
Nothing would be more demoralizing to U.S. servicemen than a Kerry victory. After all, this is the man who tells them they are fighting "the wrong war at the wrong time." This is the man who has opposed nearly every defense expenditure that has come before him in the last 20 years he has served in the U.S. Senate. This is the man who made a national name for himself by condemning troops on the battlefield in Vietnam as war criminals.
Yet Kerry will not be free to cut and run from Iraq as many of his supporters hope. He will have to play tough – at least for awhile.
You tell me how he's going to do that with military men leaving the first chance they get?
That's right. He will be forced to push for conscription.
It's ironic that Kerry's campaign has maliciously floated rumors about Bush's plans to bring back the draft. Even if he wanted to do it, Bush probably couldn't do it politically. Kerry could. Kerry would. He would have no choice. His only alternative would be cutting and running – and that wouldn't help him build the kind of legacy he would need for re-election.
So what would Kerry do? Could he afford to surrender in the face of massive defections by the troops? Would he forbid soldiers from leaving when their time was up? Would he force troops to stay on against their will?
God forbid there should be another attack on the country during his presidency. God forbid there should be another foreign policy crisis – in Korea or in Taiwan, for instance. God forbid the situation in Iraq could worsen requiring even more U.S. troops.
What would be Kerry's options?
There is only one: Bring back the draft.
It's funny how throughout history the people who seem to most covet peace never achieve it.
It's funny how politicians are often forced to grapple with their worst fears.
It's funny how things never go quite like you expect in politics and world affairs.
But there's nothing funny about the prospect of a Kerry victory – not for our armed forces.
I will bet you that better than 90 percent of U.S. troops oppose Kerry. I will bet you they tell jokes about him during quiet times in the barracks in Iraq. I will bet you that he is disliked by soldiers in the field as much as he was by those still on the field in Vietnam in 1971.
They will be leaving as soon as they can in the event of a Kerry victory. There will be no stopping them. It will create something of a national emergency – a crisis.
And John Kerry, with the support of his party in Congress, will do the only thing he can do – reinstitute the draft.
In fact, it's worth noting that members of his party – and only his party – already have introduced legislation to do just that.
So, once again, the political conventional wisdom is all wrong. There is little or no threat of the draft being reinstituted in a second Bush administration. But I would give you better than even odds on it if Kerry wins.
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The person who has nothing for which he is willing
to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
--John Stuart Mill
posted on October 7, 2004 05:47:09 AM new
hackworth is speculating on the wrong president... I don't think President Bush will start a draft... however I would bet kerry would if elected.
only kerry has said that he need more military personnel
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
posted on October 7, 2004 07:42:46 AM new
That's an interesting opinion, especially considering it's from WorldNet.
Personally, I find it hard to believe that either candidate will be able to avoid reinstating the draft if things continue as they are.
____________________________________________
Dick Cheney: "I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11..."
posted on October 7, 2004 08:12:59 AM new
yellowstone - you tell 'em lol
------------
One area I have seen that many commanders have stated is having an all volunteer army - gets better results because they're committed and weren't forced to do something they didn't want to do...making them more motivated for the 'cause.
------------
I agree with those who believe a draft might be restarted should kerry get elected. It's the dems who presented the 'draft bill' which was just voted down by a huge majority. And remember it's not a President that makes that call anyway...it's a vote of our Congress.
Also anyone who's aware of kerry's education program that he wants to tie giving service with getting a free education....can see he wants to use that method to recruit more to serve...both in the Armed Forces and in public service.
----------------
reamond - What made you go from wanting to bomb the whole ME area - wipe them all out totally, to now appearing to me to want to scare people that if President Bush is re-elected their children are going to be forced to go to war? If you had been in the decision making position....we wouldn't need a draft...as there'd be no one there to fight, right?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I will never submit America's national security to an international test. The use of troops to defend America must never be subject to a veto by countries like France. The President's job is not to take an international poll -- the President's job is to defend America." --President George W. Bush
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Re-elect President Bush
posted on October 7, 2004 12:06:47 PM newOne area I have seen that many commanders have stated is having an all volunteer army - gets better results because they're committed and weren't forced to do something they didn't want to do...making them more motivated for the 'cause.
We then saw the abandonment of America’s military draft and birth of the “all volunteer Army” in 1973 at the end of the Vietnam War. As a silent observer of our armed services since that time it has been of interest to watch and listen to the many reasons why young adults enlist. For the majority, the reasons seem to pivot around the kingpins of either getting a post-high school education and/or the hope of better job opportunities in the adult world. Others join because most of the opportunities in the adult world amount to temporary jobs with low pay and no benefits. Other individuals (for example, police officers and schoolteachers) seem to sign up in the National Guard for the extra pay that supplements a less than adequate salary. Until 911 today’s military was the preferred job placement for many of America’s middle-class young adults. That is because the redeeming virtue of being a member of our “all volunteer army” had been the commonly held belief that the likelihood of field combat is slim.
Now, in a post 9-11 world all of that has changed. Being in the “all volunteer Army” is dangerous, inconvenient, and demanding. The pay is bad and it is a lonely life in a far away place. Add to that the expanding shortage of supplies, military fighting equipment, or back-to-back military campaigns and the thought of returning to normal civilian life is no different today than it was for us back in 1968. Thus, tens of thousands of today’s military personnel are counting days to simply get out! There is nothing wrong with that desire except for the reality this nation has no military draft. Gone are the days of seeing elite’s like Elvis Presley submitting to induction. That’s too bad, too, because I wander how loud the flaming liberals would shout if they were to get written orders to report for forced military conscription or face criminal prosecution. In fact it, somehow now, seems practically un-American to demand that the young men and women of this nation me made to serve in the armed forced for the interests of this nation. Heaven forbid that freedom is no longer free.
What we Americans need to realize, the sooner the better, is our “all volunteer Army” program is a failure in a day and age of Twenty-first Century asymmetric war. That’s a hard pill to swallow. But the ugly truth is a day is coming when, one by one, tens of thousands of active military personnel are going to refuse to re-enlist. Then what will the Pentagon do? Moreover, that day of decision will land while George W. Bush is still a resident of the White House. He is already being forced to extend the length of service of most of the men and women who are now in uniform. So what will Bush do one year from now? Will he extend that service yet again? What will he do if there is a new hostile front, say in Korea? How long can the “all volunteer Army” sustain combat hardships without backup replacements? How long will the equipment hold up? How long will it be until our entire military is likened to a cell phone battery that can no longer hold an electric charge?
There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." —George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002
----------------------------------
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
On This Week with George Stephanopoulos, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld declares: "the area… that coalition forces control… happens not to be the area where weapons of mass destruction were dispersed. We know where they are. They’re in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat."
------------------------------
posted on October 7, 2004 12:32:16 PM newGone are the days of seeing elite's like Elvis Presley submitting to induction.
Not true....look at Tillman and his brother. They volunteered because they wanted to defend their country. There are hundreds of thousands just like them.
And on the future...what will we do if no one, or not enough want to volunteer. As long as there are brave men and women, like the one's still signing up, even thought we've been in two wars, who are willing to defend America...our way of life will continue. And I don't see a future where that will happen. Should NK say launch a NW bomb...you'd see people signing up right and left to defend this nation.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I will never submit America's national security to an international test. The use of troops to defend America must never be subject to a veto by countries like France. The President's job is not to take an international poll -- the President's job is to defend America." --President George W. Bush
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Re-elect President Bush
posted on October 7, 2004 01:01:25 PM newyou'd see people signing up right and left to defend this nation
Keep dreaming Linda. There is a good majority of people that have joined the military because they wanted the military to pay for their education or it was better than having no job at all. They say it as a small way to support their families. That is why you see military recruiters focusing on economically depressed areas of this country.
Tillman was an exception not the rule.
And in case you did not notice the article I mentioned above was written by a Republican.
There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." —George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002
----------------------------------
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
On This Week with George Stephanopoulos, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld declares: "the area… that coalition forces control… happens not to be the area where weapons of mass destruction were dispersed. We know where they are. They’re in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat."
------------------------------
posted on October 7, 2004 02:38:56 PM new
LOL - So ..it was written by a republican...doesn't change what I know is happening.
And comparing the Tillman brothers...is like using Elvis as one example. They both had great futures in front of them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I will never submit America's national security to an international test. The use of troops to defend America must never be subject to a veto by countries like France. The President's job is not to take an international poll -- the President's job is to defend America." --President George W. Bush
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Re-elect President Bush
posted on October 7, 2004 07:39:57 PM newdoesn't change what I know is happening.
Yep, the return of the draft and more soldiers coming home from Iraq in body bags....
There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." —George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002
----------------------------------
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
On This Week with George Stephanopoulos, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld declares: "the area… that coalition forces control… happens not to be the area where weapons of mass destruction were dispersed. We know where they are. They’re in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat."
------------------------------
posted on October 8, 2004 05:23:34 AM new
They still have plenty of IRR to go with...
As some other poster likes to preach on here, an enlistment is a CONTRACT, it has a clause about getting out during war time... you don't... for those that didn't finish their active service obligation from that contract they signed... they can be called back under the IRR recall...
No back door draft... just enforcement of a contract that they signed....
Prevent Bigotry through Education.
lol
