posted on March 16, 2005 11:32:03 AM new
Incredibly, TWO YEARS after this book is published, the Catholic Church steps in with its opinion. It is a work of fiction based on certain facts (such as the painting of The Last Supper). I was born and raised Catholic, and I enjoyed the book for what it is -- a work of fiction. -- Diane
Top Cardinal Blasts 'Da Vinci Code' as 'Cheap Lies'
VATICAN CITY (March 16) - If you're not among the millions who have already read "The Da Vinci Code," an Italian cardinal has a plea for you: Don't read it and don't buy it.
Genoa Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, who previously was a high-ranking official of the Vatican's office on doctrinal orthodoxy, told Vatican Radio on Tuesday that the runaway success of the Dan Brown novel is proof of "anti-Catholic" prejudice.
"You can find that book everywhere and the risk is that many people who read it believe that those fairy tales are real," he said. "I think I have the responsibility to clear things up to unmask the cheap lies contained in books like that."
Allegations in the novel that Jesus married Mary Magdalene and has descendants have outraged many Christians and have been dismissed by historians and theologians.
"The distribution strategy has been absolutely exceptional marketing, even at Catholic bookstores - and I've already complained about the Catholic bookshops which, for profit motives, have stacks of this book," the cardinal said.
"And then there's that strategy of persuasion - that one isn't an adult Christian if you don't read this book. Thus my appeal is: Don't read and don't buy" the book.
Asked about commentary that the book's success is "only further proof of the fact that anti-Catholicism is the last acceptable prejudice," the cardinal exclaimed. "It's the truth."
"There's a great anti-Catholic prejudice," Bertone said. "I ask myself if a similar book was written, full of lies about Buddha, Mohammed, or, even, for example, if a novel came out which manipulated all the history of the Holocaust or of the Shoah, what would have happened?"
"The Da Vinci Code" was published two years ago this month and is available in 44 languages. Booksellers expect the novel to remain a best seller well into this year.
03-16-05 09:55 EST
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Copyright 2004 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content, including by framing or similar means, is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters shall not be liable for any errors or delays in the content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon.
posted on March 16, 2005 11:42:20 AM new
I would imagine that anything that threatens to take funds away from the Catholic church would be conceived as a threat to the Pope.
A word to the wise ain't necessary, it's the stupid ones that need the advice."
- Bill Cosby
posted on March 16, 2005 11:43:55 AM new
"""Booksellers expect the novel to remain a best seller well into this year."""
So HAHAHAHA nyah nyah catlick church !!!!
Wasn't interested before but think I'll buy a copy now......and so will others......
the book sellers, publishers and author will all be grateful to Cardy Bertone (known to be an active member of the mafia)for the upsurge in sales.
posted on March 16, 2005 11:52:24 AM new
I think what bothers me the most about Cardinal Bertone's comments is that he seems to perceive that those who read the book will take it as fact. Aren't we adults with the ability to use our intelligence to discern between fact and fiction? Obviously, he views the book to be a threat to Christianity. Imagine if he read Angels & Demons by the same author! OIY! LOL ...
posted on March 16, 2005 12:53:47 PM new
As I have said before...both "The Da Vinci Code" and "Angels and Demons" by Dan Brown, are two of the most interesting and entertaining books I have ever read. I couldn't put them down! For books of fiction, they sure have stirred up a hornets nest among ultra devout Christians and the Catholic Church... I would encourage everyone to read both books, draw your own conclusions. If nothing else they will give you hours of good reading....and guaranteed to make you re-examine your religious beliefs...
Here are a few questions asked to Dan Brown about the Da vinci Code and his answers...
Bizzy... go to his website and check out the photos of all the art work and places mentioned in the book... I'll never look at
The Last Supper without marveling at what I had missed all these years!
.........................................
HAS ANYONE IN ORGANIZED RELIGION COME OUT IN SUPPORT OF YOUR NOVEL?
Yes, many people in organized religion have come out in support of this novel, and, of course, many have come out in opposition as well. The opposition generally comes from the strictest Christian thinkers who feel the idea of a "married Jesus" serves to undermine His divinity. While I don't agree with this interpretation, this is immaterial because the dialogue itself is a deeply empowering and positive force for everyone involved. Suddenly, enormous numbers of people are passionately debating important philosophical topics, and regardless of the personal conclusions that each of us draws, the debate can only help to strengthen our understanding of our own faith. Much of the positive response I get from within organized religion comes from nuns (who write to thank me for pointing out that they have sacrificed their entire lives to the Church and are still considered "unfit" to serve behind the altar). I have also heard from hundreds of enthusiastic priests. While many of them disagree with some of the ideas in the novel, they are thrilled that their parishioners are eager to discuss religion. Father John Sewell of St. John's Episcopal Church in Memphis stated it particularly eloquently in the press recently, saying: "This [novel] is not a threat. This is an opportunity. We are called to creatively engage the culture and this is what I want to do. I think Dan Brown has done me a favor. He's letting me talk about things that matter."
THIS NOVEL IS VERY EMPOWERING TO WOMEN. CAN YOU COMMENT?
Two thousand years ago, we lived in a world of Gods and Goddesses. Today, we live in a world solely of Gods. Women in most cultures have been stripped of their spiritual power. The novel touches on questions of how and why this shift occurred…and on what lessons we might learn from it regarding our future.
THE COVER OF YOUR BOOK MENTIONS "THE GREATEST CONSPIRACY OF THE PAST 2000 YEARS." WHAT IS THIS CONSPIRACY?
Revealing that secret would rob readers of all the fun, but I will say that it relates to one of the most famous histories of all time…a legend familiar to all of us. Rumors of this conspiracy have been whispered for centuries in countless languages, including the languages of art, music, and literature. Some of the most dramatic evidence can be found in the paintings of Leonardo Da Vinci, which seem to overflow with mystifying symbolism, anomalies, and codes. Art historians agree that Da Vinci's paintings contain hidden levels of meaning that go well beneath the surface of the paint. Many scholars believe his work intentionally provides clues to a powerful secret…a secret that remains protected to this day by a clandestine brotherhood of which Da Vinci was a member.
posted on March 16, 2005 01:17:40 PM new
I agree with you Bizzy. But many people are susceptible to being sucked in by anything to do with religion. That's why they need a leader in the first place - to tell them what they should be believing.
posted on March 16, 2005 02:11:54 PM new
Shun Da Vinci Code, Cardinal Tells Catholics
2 hours, 20 minutes ago Entertainment - Reuters Celebrity/Gossip
By Philip Pullella
VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - The cardinal leading the Vatican (news - web sites)'s charge against The Da Vinci Code urged Catholics on Wednesday to shun it like rotten food and branded the bestseller "a sack full of lies" insulting the Christian faith.
In an interview with Reuters inside the Vatican, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone also said Catholic bookstores should take the thriller off their shelves and accused U.S. author Dan Brown of "deplorable" behavior.
The novel is an international murder mystery centered on attempts to uncover a secret about the life of Christ that a clandestine society has tried to protect for centuries.
"Don't buy this. Don't read this because this is rotten food," said Bertone, the highest ranking Catholic churchman to speak out against the blockbuster.
"A lot of novels do good but this book is rotten food ... it does harm, not good," Bertone said in the 30-minute interview in the offices of the Vatican's doctrinal department.
"This book is a sack full of lies against the Church, against the real history of Christianity and against Christ himself," said Bertone, archbishop of northern Genoa.
The central tenet of the book is that Jesus married Mary Magdalene and had children. Christians are taught that Jesus never married, was crucified and rose from the dead.
"We can't keep quiet about the truth when faced with all the lies and all the inventions in this book," Bertone said.
"Some of the gross falsehoods include the treatment of the death and the resurrection of Christ, which is the central mystery of Christianity," he said.
His comments are significant because he is close to Pope John Paul (news - web sites) and until 2003 was deputy head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the Vatican's most powerful office.
Speaking as one of the Church's top theologians, he said the book sows doubts and dangerous confusion among the faithful.
A central storyline in the book is that the Holy Grail is not the cup which Christ is said to have used at the Last Supper but the bloodline descended from Jesus and Mary Magdalene.
"I would ask the author of this book and similar ones to be more respectful because freedom of expression has limits when it does not respect others," he said.
"DEPLORABLE" BEHAVIOR FOR A WRITER
"I deplore this behavior ... Great writers did not behave this way," he said.
On his Web Site, Brown rejects anti-Christian charges. His agent in New York said the author was "incommunicado" writing a new book and was not expected to reply to Bertone.
The book's publishers, Doubleday, said in a statement that it "certainly respects Cardinal Bertone, the Vatican and their desire to clarify any factual errors they feel may have been made in The Da Vinci Code."
Doubleday said the book merely explored centuries-old ideas "in an accessible work of fiction."
Bertone called it "the latest in a series of devastating attacks against Christianity" and that he believed that similar attacks on other religions would not have been tolerated.
Bertone said he was stunned that Catholic bookstores, even those near the Vatican, were selling the book.
"It's impossible to pull the book off shelves of general bookstores ... but certainly not selling it in Catholic bookstores would be a good first step," he said.
Bertone, who was appointed a cardinal by Pope John Paul in 2003, also said he had received much encouragement from fellow bishops and cardinals for his campaign against the book.
"I am happy that a lot of people have been put on the alert and that I have sounded the alarm of vigilance against the spread of this book," he said.
"I have arrived too late. Millions of copies have been sold. I can't hope to slow down sales but at least to prompt a critical response," he said.
Bertone is so incensed about the novel that he will be the key speaker at a roundtable in Genoa on Wednesday night attempting to dismantle the book, which also claims the Church suppressed the female role in Christianity.
He rejected the assertion, saying: "The role of women in the Church is a primary one, starting from Mary, the mother of God."
**********
I bet the scumbag that wrote this book is related to Michael Moore.
Do you think this book is going to change anyones faith, like Michael Moores movie did for the republicans. It will be controversy for a while but then it will die down just like Moores movie did. He is just trying to get his 1 moment of fame.
I doubt if crowfarm and Maggie know what the role of a women is. I know maggie's is to get married and divorced 4 times. And crowfarm to go to bed with her husband.
As previously stated in another thread.
posted on March 16, 2005 02:46:21 PM new
Libra -- Did you read the book? Evidently, by calling the author a "scumbag", I would bet that you haven't. It's a great read! It's a work of fiction based on some facts. That's it. You take what you will from it and move on. Personally, I enjoyed the book. It was exciting and extremely hard to put down. It raises alot of questions. What can be so bad about researching religion and the implications that The Vatican has on religion and faith? Why does The Vatican work so hard at snuffing out any doubts about exploring one's religion and faith? I don't know, Libra, but I would suggest that you pick up a copy of the book and read it. Perhaps you will have a different view of the author.
posted on March 16, 2005 03:40:43 PM new
Oh..My.. Libra.. your ignorance is showing again.. READ THE BOOK...you stupid old cow..
And you really shouldn't start drinking so early, that statement about me and my four husbands and Crow going to bed with her husband...makes you sound either totally plastered or your half a bubble off...I personally believe that in your case, the lights are on but nobody's home...but like I have said before, you are our Board mascot, and like any other mentally challenged person, we tend to overlook your short comings and cut you some slack... but don't push it.. I for one have only so much patience...there is a fine line between amusing and annoying...
For those of you who have actually read the book.....just wondering if you read Angels and Demons too? I found both equally as good as the other.... This book has been on the best sellers list for what? 2 years now, and this latest publicity will only help to keep it there.. imo
posted on March 16, 2005 04:28:51 PM new
Maggie -- I read Angels & Demons. I thought it was good, but nowhere near as good as The Da Vinci Code. The Da Vinci Code left you wondering ...
posted on March 16, 2005 05:05:19 PM new
Possibly another book that might interest all those who have read Da Vinci Code....
DISPROVED: the outrageous anti-Christian falsehoods popularized by the bestselling novel, The Da Vinci Code
Breaking the Da Vinci Code
by Bock, Darrell L.
For more than a year, Dan Brown's #1 New York Times besteller, The Da Vinci Code, has been entertaining readers with its dark tale of a conspiracy to suppress the supposed "truth" about Jesus and early Christianity -- a "truth" which the novel, on its very first page, insists is historical fact, not fiction.
Among the novel's central claims: that Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene and had children by her.
Now, in Breaking the Da Vinci Code: Answers to the Questions Everyone's Asking, New Testament scholar Prof. Darrell Bock dismantles the reckless, quasi-nonfiction claims made in Brown's novel--and shows how they are misleading millions of unsuspecting readers, many of them Christians.
Posing each of Brown's claims in the form of a question, Professor Bock examines them one by one -- including:
Was Jesus really married to Mary Magdalene, and did he have children by her? Has their bloodline really been traced by "scores of historians"?
Would being single really make Jesus "un-Jewish"?
Did the Catholic Church really suppress the fact that Christ's "family" fled to France as a way to protect his claims to divinity?
Did Leonardo da Vinci really stumble on a Vatican plot to conceal the truth about Jesus, and then expose it in his famous painting of the Last Supper?
Did the Bible really emerge as a "power play" document in the early fourth century under the emperor Constantine, after Christianity finally won its battle with paganism?
Do the unbiblical "Gnostic Gospels" really reveal truths about Jesus that the church and New Testament have hidden from us?
Was the role of women suppressed in the early centuries of the Christian faith?
In other words: did the church lie?
The short answer to these questions: no. The full answers take the form of Bock's sound and scholarly refutation of Dan Brown's outrageous falsehoods.
"This book is my effort to clarify the difference between virtual reality and historical likelihood," writes Bock, a professor of New Testament studies at Dallas Theological Seminary. "In other words, I hope clearly to distinguish between fictitious entertainment and historical elements of the Christian faith. . . .
Each chapter will probe what we know, how we know it, and what we have to think about together. We will review ancient texts, for they unlock much of the history that The Da Vinci Code attempts to portray."
"A must for all who are confused by Brown's portrayal of fiction as fact"
"A must-read for anyone who wants to understand the pernicious nature of The Da Vinci Code.
Darrell Bock shines the light of history on Dan Brown's conspiracy theories and turns up a mixture of fascinating possibilities, wishful thinking, overblown claims, and outright errors. But more importantly, he reveals the book's hidden agenda: to transform the very character of the Christian faith." --
David Neff, Editor & Vice-President, Christianity Today
posted on March 16, 2005 05:25:54 PM new
Oh pullllllllleeeeeeeeezzzzzzzze!!!!! That is so ridiculous!!!! The first page does state certain facts such as the fact that the works of Da Vinci, etc., are fact. However, nowhere does it EVER claim that it is FACT that Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene. That is pure fiction. Jeez... Did that author even read the book????
posted on March 16, 2005 05:43:08 PM new
I've been meaning to read this thing forever. Is it EVER going to come out in paperback?
I'm too cheap to shell out for a hardcover on eBay ;(
--------------------------------------
Replay Media - The best source for board games, card games and miniatures on the web! http://www.replaymedia.com
posted on March 16, 2005 05:55:37 PM new
Another review of Da Vinci Code:
Fans of The Da Vinci Code often dismiss Christians' concerns by singing a chorus of "It's only fiction."
However, they overlook that the bestseller does contain a misleading brief section entitled "Fact" at the front of the book: "All descriptions of artwork, architecture, documents, and secret rituals in this novel are accurate."
Bock responds by asserting:
No longer is The Da Vinci Code a mere piece of fiction. It is a novel clothed in claims of historical truth, critical of institutions and beliefs held by millions of people around the world.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on March 16, 2005 06:02:51 PM new
Diane - I see no reason for you, or anyone else, to object to me mentioning another book that takes the 'stories' in Da Vinci Code, one-by-one and disputes them.
It's always good to read BOTH sides of issues. This was/is to encourage others to do so.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on March 16, 2005 06:04:38 PM new
Linda -- It's inaccurate. That's my point. And IF you had even read the book, you wouldn't be posting this nonsense! Anyone who has read the book realizes what is fact and what is fiction.
posted on March 16, 2005 06:08:47 PM new
Linduh can't reason....she has to C&P,, this is a prime example and the poor DOPE doesn't know this is a work of fiction.....can someone with more patience than I explain what "fiction" means to the brain dead.
posted on March 16, 2005 06:15:10 PM new
Diane - Anyone who has read....
And obviously, there is GREAT disagreement between those who have read this book, on just what are FACTS and which are UNTRUE conspiracy theories, as we observed in your opening post - and to a list of others who agree with the Cardinal.
That was the point in recommending the 'other' side - this book that argues the opposite of the 'conspiracy theories' suggested in the Da Vinci Code book. They AREN'T in agreement with what was presented in the D V C book.
Again, I'm sure it wouldn't bother you to have 'both sides' of issue read by anyone interested...would it?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on March 16, 2005 06:18:33 PM new
Crowfarm -- There's no reason to get nasty. I posted about this because I thought the book was fascinating. I thought I could have a discussion about the merits of the book. But I don't think many in this forum read it. I do know that Maggie and Tom read it. (I still laugh when I picture Tom chasing Ralphie around the house trying to measure him!) I'm sorry. Perhaps this was the wrong forum to strike up a conversation on a fascinating read.
posted on March 16, 2005 06:21:06 PM new
Libra and Linda...expand your mind...read the book and then, and only then, will you be able to have an informed opinion..start thinking for yourselves once in a while, make an effort.
If you would like to read how the author answered the questions about the facts of the book.. read what he says below...if you are to lazy to do so.. then remain ignorant on the subject.
HOW MUCH OF THIS NOVEL IS TRUE?
The Da Vinci Code is a novel and therefore a work of fiction. While the book's characters and their actions are obviously not real, the artwork, architecture, documents, and secret rituals depicted in this novel all exist (for example, Leonardo Da Vinci's paintings, the Gnostic Gospels, Hieros Gamos, etc.). These real elements are interpreted and debated by fictional characters. While it is my belief that some of the theories discussed by these characters may have merit, each individual reader must explore these characters' viewpoints and come to his or her own interpretations. My hope in writing this novel was that the story would serve as a catalyst and a springboard for people to discuss the important topics of faith, religion, and history.
BUT DOESN'T THE NOVEL'S "FACT" PAGE CLAIM THAT EVERY SINGLE WORD IN THIS NOVEL IS HISTORICAL FACT?
If you read the "FACT" page, you will see it clearly states that the documents, rituals, organization, artwork, and architecture in the novel all exist. The "FACT" page makes no statement whatsoever about any of the ancient theories discussed by fictional characters. Interpreting those ideas is left to the reader.
IS THIS BOOK ANTI-CHRISTIAN?
No. This book is not anti-anything. It's a novel. I wrote this story in an effort to explore certain aspects of Christian history that interest me. The vast majority of devout Christians understand this fact and consider The Da Vinci Code an entertaining story that promotes spiritual discussion and debate. Even so, a small but vocal group of individuals has proclaimed the story dangerous, heretical, and anti-Christian. While I regret having offended those individuals, I should mention that priests, nuns, and clergy contact me all the time to thank me for writing the novel. Many church officials are celebrating The Da Vinci Code because it has sparked renewed interest in important topics of faith and Christian history. It is important to remember that a reader does not have to agree with every word in the novel to use the book as a positive catalyst for introspection and exploration of our faith.
posted on March 16, 2005 06:31:51 PM new
Some people know the difference between fact and fiction if he states this in the front of the book. How do we know what is fact or fiction. Come on this book is only to confuse the religious people of the world. it can't be the non religious people he is writing to because they don't believe and they never will.
A must for all who are confused by Brown's portrayal of fiction as fact This is what he is doing confusing the readers.
Maggie "Oh..My.. Libra.. your ignorance is showing again.. READ THE BOOK...you stupid old cow..
And you really shouldn't start drinking so early, that statement about me and my four husbands and Crow going to bed with her husband...makes you sound either totally plastered or your half a bubble off...I personally believe that in your case, the lights are on but nobody's home...but like I have said before, you are our Board mascot, and like any other mentally challenged person, we tend to overlook your short comings and cut you some slack... but don't push it.. I for one have only so much patience...there is a fine line between amusing and annoying...
You are annoying...not amusing as that picture you posted shows your ignorance. You are the one who brought your private life into this board and it is fair game. Crowfarm did also. Well I hope your patience has run out because I have no patience with you either. What are you going to do about it? Nothing as there is nothing you can do. No if you can tell by the posts you are the board mascot. You hide behind your smilies. You crave attention. You certainly do have opinions of people and since you don't know who I am keep your mouth shut....
Sorry all but maggie is well I won't say it you can make your own assumptions.
posted on March 16, 2005 06:33:03 PM new
Bizzy...all I can say is it is a pity that some will not give the book a read.. They are missing out on a brilliantly written mystery, one I will treasure forever...
First - Crowfarm -- There's no reason to get nasty.
That's NOT CF getting nasty. When he/she chooses to get nasty she/he wishes DEATH and illness upon the disagreeing person and their family. She brings up sexual issues with you too. So...don't cross her/him or you'll get to see what REAL NASTINESS can be.
Second: I posted about this because I thought the book was fascinating.
And I have never objected to anyone doing so. But wanting to discuss a book some may or may not have read is much different than posting the rest about the Cardinal. We have a ton of anti-religion bashing threads on here.
I thought I could have a discussion about the merits of the book. But I don't think many in this forum read it.
So...I sure don't see a problem with continuing to discuss this book, as you say you wanted to. But I also don't see a problem with posting about those who do feel offended by what the book author is trying to do either.
This is just like michael moores 'supposed documentary' ...full of distortions, suggestions of untruths and many people believed his film was truth.
This is just the other side....those who feel the intentions of this author is just more anti-Christian bashing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
for the upsurge in sales.
