posted on May 12, 2005 11:09:11 AM
I read an article that said the people of Afghanistan are really suffering from hunger and malnutrition since their country was invaded (sorry, I meant liberated). How sad.
I've said before that these people made much of their money from cultivating poppies and marijuana. Of course this is a no-no with the U.S., so they (the U.S.) is trying to get these people to grow other crops in this desert soil. It sounds like a great idea, but the kind of crops they can grow are limited, and there's no resources for them to look after food crops which leaves them in the position they're in.
How come I feel that Afghanistan was just a stepping stone to the Iraq invasion? How can a country invade another country, leave it in ruins, call it liberation, then leave to go and destroy another country without cleaning up the mess they left in the first one? Are skinny people riddled with signs of starvation the faces of liberation?
Let's try to not forget these people in Afghanistan.
posted on May 12, 2005 11:28:02 AM
kraft, I saw a piece on sixty minutes (i think) on Afghanistan about that. It was some time ago but I had questions as well.
But arent some troops still there? How devastated was the economy even before we got there?
posted on May 12, 2005 11:46:43 AM
Double, it was a recent article in McLean's so it sounds like nothing much has changed since the program you saw. Sure, Afghanistan was one of the poorest countries in the Middle East so destruction was something they lived with before 911. But how can you further destroy a country then do very little but provide military assistance? Like, where's Halliburton? Why aren't they there to help with the reconstruction? Is there ANY reconstruction going on or is this another blanket statement put out by the government to pacify? I still haven't seen any pictures of the reconstruction happening in Iraq, so I'm beginning to think it's ALL lies and the government doesn't give two hoots about the people of Afghansitan or Iraq.
posted on May 12, 2005 12:18:11 PM
For anyone who is really interested in ALL that's gone on since 2001 in
Afghanistan....I've posted this link many times. This is the most recent report.
To imply they have been left to fend for themselves is not true. They have and still are receiving help from MANY nations.
posted on May 12, 2005 01:50:16 PM
Linda, I could do a post on all the good stuff that's happening on the Vendio Round Table and make it sound like all of us get along famously. Doesn't mean there's no other side to the story. Words don't cut it when I read about all the good stuff happening in these two countries because of that. At the very least, the government should provide pictures of all the reconstruction taking place, but you know as well as I do why there are no pictures.
posted on May 12, 2005 02:35:29 PM
KD - There is good and bad going on in many countries around the world where we didn't declare war. These two are no different. But you, or your story, implies they're worse now. are really suffering from hunger and malnutrition [b]since their country was invaded. That may be someones opinion....but others have different opinions are do see the good that is happening in BOTH courties.
My article clearly states what's changing, what still needs to change and what is being accomlished there.
It is my honest belief that those of you who ONLY want to focus on the negative, will not have their minds changed with the good that IS occurring is present for their evaluation and will continue to blame our country for their terrible situation. When in both cases, it's better than before we invaded.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on May 12, 2005 03:11:06 PM
It's not negativity. It's reality.
In Iraq:
In all, the death toll rose to at least 72 across northern and central portions of the country yesterday, while 160 people were wounded. The toll over the past two weeks neared 400, one of the most violent periods since the U.S. invasion two years ago.
posted on May 12, 2005 04:09:26 PM
KD WAS speaking and DID refer to the people in Afghanistan - kiara.
The WORLD supported our actions there. Things have improved...they're now FREE and VOTING for their own government. And as for how they continue to go....that is NOT only in our hands. Many counties all over the world, including Canada, are helping them....giving them aid in one way or another.
------------
As far as Iraq....we've been EXTREMELY successful there, as opposed to all the 'world war III' and horror stories the anti-war lefties claimed were going to come about. They too are now a FREE people and very much enjoyed their first right to vote without saddam's threats. They're right to form their OWN government.
In Iraq - Almost ALL the people being killed now are being killed by their own countrymen...or other Arabs/Muslims....NOT American's. The terrorists are on their last leg and they know it.
We have been very successful there and OUR CONGRESS has just given their continued approval for us to remain there, by voting for the additional funding. The Senate vote was 99-1[not voting]. House 385-58...[close # not exact]. So....it looks like it doesn't matter what you ultra-lefties would like to see....OUR COUNTRY has made the decision and OUR government supports it.
And again, there are many, many countries all over the world where differing factions are killing each other - that's why we have peace-keeping troops in many other countries. They're having civil war...religious wars...wars about who should lead them, etc. And we didn't start a war with them. Just the way the world is....and President Bush didn't cause it to be that way either.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on May 12, 2005 04:30:03 PM
And the cherry blossoms are blooming again and the children are skipping back to school...just like you said last year??? Linda, you know that is a blatant LIE. You are so uninformed and brainwashed that it would take more effort than I have time to spend to get you up to speed on the situation in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Plus, discussing anything with you would be like chatting with a bunch of rocks.
posted on May 12, 2005 04:34:05 PM
Thursday, May 12, 2005
Brigadier Assassinated, Another Bomb in Baghdad
The London Times Online reports that guerrillas detonated another bomb in a market in East Baghdad, killing 17 and wounding 80, catching up 8 cars and a bus in the huge blast.
The explosion at a fertilizer plant in Basra, which also set an oil pipeline on fire, is now being blamed on a guerrilla's bomb.
Another bomb in West Baghdad wounded at least 5 civilians some three ours later, and may have hurt some US troops.
posted on May 12, 2005 04:39:26 PM
Yes, helen....except I didn't write and link to proof of all that is listed in the "Good News From Afghanistan" link I provided.
And you HAVE MADE MY POINT by posting who's doing what to whom.....
You doom and gloomers won't EVER see any good that comes from anything. Thank heaven you're not calling the shots. YOU just have to live with them.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on May 12, 2005 04:42:23 PMKD WAS speaking and DID refer to the people in Afghanistan - kiara.
I realize you think you can see into my mind Linda_k and that you have a strong desire to control how I post but believe it or not I am able to read quite well and I did see that Kraft was speaking and that she mentioned Afghanistan and Iraq and I also mentioned Afghanistan and Iraq.
posted on May 12, 2005 04:46:24 PM
Lest we forget.
There have been 1,792 coalition troop deaths, 1,613 Americans, 88 Britons, 10 Bulgarians, one Dane, two Dutch, two Estonians, one Hungarian, 21 Italians, one Kazakh, one Latvian, 17 Poles, one Salvadoran, three Slovaks, 11 Spaniards, two Thai and 18 Ukrainians in the war in Iraq as of May 12, 2005.
The list below is the names of the soldiers, Marines, airmen, sailors and Coast Guardsmen whose families have been notified of their deaths by each country's government. At least 12,350 U.S. troops have been wounded in action, according to the Pentagon. The Pentagon does not report the number of non-hostile wounded.
posted on May 12, 2005 04:54:22 PM
Something around 1500 are American's out of that total.
And in THIS country...our Congress controls the purse strings for our wars. As I've already mentioned. 100% of the democrats in the Senate and a large number in the House...voted for MORE WAR FUNDING.
Even kerry voted FOR it this time. Which of course, means he agrees with continuing the war efforts too.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on May 12, 2005 06:21:40 PM
Linda_K, your attempts to cover for your failed leaders are getting weaker and weaker daily.
Here is another example of more and more Americans not believing you or your failed Commander and Chief any longer. Its now been 4 months back to back our military has not been able to meet their recruiting goals.
posted on May 12, 2005 06:26:57 PM Something around 1500 are American's out of that total.
1,613 Americans
All men and women who had hopes and dreams for a future.
At least 12,350 U.S. troops have been wounded in action.
All men and women with hopes and dreams who will be affected by this for the rest of their lives.
Of course they voted for more funding. They won't be able to leave now after that big mess they created over there. Besides, Haliburton hasn't gleaned quite enough out of it yet either.
posted on May 12, 2005 06:48:44 PM
I'm stumped Linda. How can we discuss both sides of the picture regarding these 2 countries? How can we talk about the things that need changing or things that should be scrutinized a bit more without appearing like we're being negative?
posted on May 12, 2005 07:14:26 PM
Kraft, I think there are some that look upon war and death as a positive thing even when it's a messy fiasco like the one now in Iraq, the one that Bush had planned before his election and the one that was based on lies.
They don't value each life of the individuals directly involved and refer to the deaths as 'sh*t happens', or a 'low number' or compare them to traffic statistics. If we show empathy for the ones involved in war or are touched by the reality of it, it's called negativity by them.
It's just two different attitudes and I don't see it changing.
posted on May 12, 2005 07:38:11 PM
KD - Discussing differences about the war is totally different that posting FALSE accusations - from heaven knows who or where. You didn't provide proof that things have gotten worse....I proved proof of what's being improved. Just because you read ONE person's opinion doesn't mean they have a clue as to what they're saying.
Why didn't you post the article so we could see just who's making this claim that their being FREE, VOTING for the first time, living the way they do...is WORSE than they had it before. Where are the [supposed] FACTS they have to have formed that conclusion - where's the PROOF they were so much better off before they choose to protect those who bomb us on 9-11.
You, once again, sounded to me like 'poor Afghanistan's - look what the US has done to THEM'. And yes, I'll repsond to that. Had they done the same to your country you MIGHT just feel differently. Then again, Canada might just have rolled over and played nicey nice with them, as you have impled many times the US should do, rather than going to war with those who we as a Nation feel are a threat to us.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on May 12, 2005 07:58:02 PMthe one that Bush had planned before his election and the one that was based on lies....
kiara, do you have access to the secret "Iraqgate" tapes that we dont know about?
You know what strikes me odd? Must only be a handful of really smart informed people in this country -- why else did the people actually re-elect Pres. Bush?
posted on May 13, 2005 10:16:24 AM
Linda, give me a bit more credit please. I could post something that said the opposite of what your articles say but what difference does it make? None of our articles are proof something is true or not, I'm just discussing what I read.
Since you seem to believe things are going well over there, can you show us some pictures of ANYTHING that's been rebuilt? Any pictures of the Taliban being trucked off to prison? Any idea why there aren't any pictures Linda?
posted on May 13, 2005 11:17:15 AM
LOL what difference would it make? The one I posted is based in FACT...people who are there reporting on the progress....vs...and unknown [possible ] far left anti-war, anti-American, anti-Bush hot head. THAT's the difference.
Maybe you can explain YOUR position on why when the WORLD supported our actions in Afghanistan....are you still harping on what Americans have done now?
You want me to give you more credit, and I'd be happy to IF you had the FACTS of what's REALLY going on over there and then made up-front statements about how you disagree with some/all of our actions there.
But when many, many countries are helping to rebuild Afghanistan, including your own, and then you claim they're WORSE off than they were before BECAUSE of our [America's actions] ...without any giving any substantiation at all to back up your claims of NEGLECT on our part....I do question whether this is just more...."Bad America" "Bad Bush" or a honest evaluation based on the reality of what really IS occurring over there.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on May 13, 2005 12:32:58 PM
Linda, I never said things were worse than before. I said the article stated that people are suffering from starvation, etc., since 911, which is the other side of the coin to all the wonderful things happening that your articles suggest. Whether either of our articles are based on fact is open for discussion.
As for pulling a Helen with Bear's question, Helen wouldn't ask such a stupid question to begin with.
posted on May 13, 2005 12:59:18 PM
KD you said, and I quote your OWN words:
I read an article that said the people of Afghanistan are really suffering from hunger and malnutrition ***since*** their country was invaded (sorry, I meant liberated). How sad.
And I'm saying you have not presented ANY proof that is true since you made that statement.
Where is the PROOF that they weren't "suffering from hunger and malnutrition" in exactly the same manner you claim they are now, BEFORE we invaded? Where is your proof on how much they were suffering BEFORE as compared to NOW to PROVE they are suffering MORE since we invaded. You haven't proved the basis of your argument. Anybody can SAY anything...doesn't make it true.
And then you insult bear. YOU'RE the one that said it.
I've said before that these people made much of their money from cultivating poppies and marijuana.
no one disagreed with that.
He just pointed out, and gave an example of your faulty logic. And used Columbia as his example.
Of course this is a no-no with the U.S.,
See my point here? You only single out the US...when there are many other countries who hold that SAME position. They must be given other ways to earn a living, rather than their drug crops.
so they (the U.S.) is trying to get these people to grow other crops in this desert soil. It sounds like a great idea, but the kind of crops they can grow are limited,
And you know this how??? READ KD, what IS being done in Afghanistan to change their past environment so that water can be sent to areas where there is none now. That will allow for others crops to be planted.
and there's no resources for them to look after food crops which leaves them in the position they're in. Not sure what you're referring to here. Are you saying they have no storage facilities or ways to sell say, food crops to their people?
Each issue you brought up is and has been addressed in the link I provided. As I said...it states the challenges the country has and how OTHER countries are helping them work these problems out...so they're no longer problems.
Like, just for one example...on your concern about malnutrition. It has always been a problem over there...NOT one that started after the big, bad American's invaded. Their cows have worms...thus when they eat them...they get worms. Malnutrition is not ONLY caused by not having food available...it's also caused by one's body not absorbing the food it does eat.
Are you even aware of what your OWN country is doing in Afghanistan, KD? Are they just twiddlin' their thumbs over there or are THEY activitely working to improve the plight of the Afghani's?
I think it's the latter.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
[ edited by Linda_K on May 13, 2005 01:06 PM ]
] far left anti-war, anti-American, anti-Bush hot head. THAT's the difference.