posted on August 14, 2000 10:46:08 AM
Here I am again acccccccck
Daughter is 18, and about 60 miles away at school. I brought her home 3 weeks ago to see her regular dr for a bladder infection, got that cleared..
Now, after spending the weekend at friends, and she was fine (of course), she calls about a pain in her side, I talked to the nurse they have there and she said they thought it not that serious, and they can do a U/A, and a regular MD will be there tommorow... but my daughter has always been this way, stomach aches, this that, alway at the dr, nothing wrong.... (hate to say this, but a little hypocondriac thing going on)
She calls, wants me to come get her, nurse talked to me for quite sometime, about her own daughter that is 21 and still does this, but *maybe* its time for a little 'tough love' and let her stay up there, let the dr there see whats up.... I just always cave to her 'whining and crying' about every little thing... she is immature in that area.
Anyone else have kids that do this, she did this all thru jr high and H.S. nothing is seriously wrong with her, never was, but I have taken her to her dr too many times to even count!
She doesn't have a car, or she would leave... so I did decide to let the nurse do the U/A thing to see if its lingering bladder infection, and let the dr up there see her tommorow, but I have this guilty feeling.... I gotta let her go just a little?
ok going on here, cuz I'm at a loss at this thing... one hand, I think she is fine, and just wants to leave and see her own dr that she knows well, and on the other hand, she DOES need to grow up some.... accccck
posted on August 14, 2000 11:08:00 AM
ShellyHerr....Ain't parenhood a hoot?....One of the hardest parts (especially for me) was to take action is situations like this....I have three boys, who can lay on the melodrama like they were oscar winners!...My oldest son found the school nurse very early on in Jr.High...First couple of times I got a call from her, I ran, picked him up, brought him home and nursed his hurt...(ailments ranged from stomach aches, head aches, leg, arm, anything ache)...After a while (and a growing pattern) the nurse and I would talk before I made any decisions (it did help greatly that I trusted her judgement) ANYWAY, I listened to assesment (including a rundown of the tests/big projects/etc. scheduled for that day) at that point we would make our decision as to whether or not this was indeed an illness that required attention or just a kid lookin' for some extra attention....Typically the latter...I would talk to him, she would let him stay for a few minutes and then back to class we sent him....Took a couple of years, but he's now his Jr. year in HS and has been to the nurse only once!...(and it was truly a legit illness).....
The decision is hard to do, but it might be time....ONLY YOU can make that decision...I wish you best of luck!
posted on August 14, 2000 11:43:34 AM
Rancher, your son sounds just like my daughter! Back in jr and sr high, when she would make it to school! I would basically wait for the call from the nurses office, it was that many times!
She saw her dr about every 3 weeks, it was insane, but I caved, because she is the 'baby', I have 2, the other is 19, never did this sort of thing...
She also saw a therapist and pychiatrist, about this.... and nothing 'mental'... basically they said she was more immature about things...
I really thought she outgrew this, esp. since moving away and living in a dorm, which I was amazed at! But now, she's been there since Feb. 1, she is doing the sick thing again.... I am not there, so I can't 'see' her, and *see* if she just is homesick, or what... she was crying, actually crying.... thats when I called the nurse there, and had a talk, they said if it really was an emergency they DO take them to town to either an MD or the hospital, otherwise it could wait till the schools MD comes in tommorow. So I am 'toughing' this one......
Personally? I think she is just a litttttle homesick...
Parenthood, yep its great... most of the time! Theres the great and the bad, and we have them,probably for the rest of my life! and hopefully it will be more of the great!
edited to add: just talked to the nurse there, they put her on a new anti biotic, because it was a lingering bladder infection, and she should be fine, so I have made the decision to tough it out, for tonight! anyway... I think she will be ok..
posted on August 14, 2000 12:04:52 PM
ShellyHerr....Yup, they sound like they both needed some attention....&...although my "baby" (he's 7) THINKS he's 16 (like the big brother) he is way more immature at his age than his brothers were (and I'm not a babyin' kinda mom, so it must simply be birth order)....
Sounds like your daughter took a huge step on Feb 1, to move out to the dorms....&...is probably, as you said, homesick....In addition, those antibiotics can really do a number on the emotions & a bladder infection is absolutely the pits!.....
I know it's tough to "tough it out"....But hang in there & you can do it!....
posted on August 14, 2000 02:02:42 PMShellyherr: I know it's tough when your kitten calls you but if you go and get her every time, what are you teaching her? That at the first sign of trouble, you'll rescue her or run interference for her. Unfortunately, knowing she can always count on Mom to shield her from life doesn't teach her how to deal with things on her own.
Our younger kitten was like that throughout most of his school years. There came a point where the tom and I realized we weren't doing him any favors by shielding him from life's up and downs like we were, so we made the decision to stand back and let him deal with things. The kitten balked mightily but eventually began dealing with things on his own. Problems with a teacher? He went and talked to the teacher and worked it out? Need information about a class? He got it himself. College apps? He filled them out himself(the tom helped.).
The thing is you have to let them know you're willing to listen to them and love them but you aren't going to solve their problems for them any more. And sometimes it is hard to stand back and watch them fall or make mistakes but if they're going to grow up they need to learn how to pick themselves up and go on.
Of course, all this stoicism may change next week when I have to leave the kitten at college...
posted on August 14, 2000 03:19:44 PM
When my daughter was about 10 (she's 21 now), she called me from school and said that her throat hurt and would I come and pick her up. Told her I would be right there. She then asked me if her bestfriend could come home with her, cause she wasn't feeling good either. Told her sure, if her mother came and picked her up. Strange thing is, she never was sick at school again. If she was sick, she told me that morning. My sister is a hypochondriac. I think that if my parents had been a little tougher on her, she would not be a card carrying member of the disease of the month club now at 37 years old.
posted on August 14, 2000 03:57:13 PMshelly, I don't think this is just a case of going-away-to-college homesickness. Your girl sounds like she's got some serious issues NOT associated with being "immature" or being the baby of the family.
I recall from your initial post that you said this is a behavior she's had from childhood, and that you'd taken her to therapy but they said she was "OK." I have to disagree. 18 and calling Mom "crying, really crying" to have you drive 120 miles round trip when she's got competent medical care right there just doesn't make any sense.
Let me suggest something. I'm wondering whether your daughter's got the idea, deep down inside, that she really isn't very competent (the "baby" ). That's a pretty distressing thing to know about yourself, yes? But if you're not merely pathetically helpless, but sick - well, sick people are justified in being taken care of, right? It's not quite so humiliating that way... So anytime she's feeling anxious or in need of attention, she "gets sick". I'd bet it's not a conscious, manipulative attention-getting device, but something completely unconscious on her part, and she probably DOES have some sort of symptoms every time she complains. This time she did indeed have an infection (and I've BTDT with the same thing at her age, so I know how nasty they are). But to go home to Mom? I don't think so.
I'd suggest the best thing you can do for your daughter is to get her some help in feeling competent, independent and comfortable with herself. Good luck!
[ edited by HartCottageQuilts on Aug 14, 2000 03:57 PM ]
posted on August 14, 2000 05:28:45 PM
This is hard for me to say as I consider myself very "together" and in charge of my own life.
Starting in March I started getting very sick with some really weird stuff. Got hives for the first time (didnt know what they were for 3 days and that was VERY scary), then I had kidney stones and a uninary tract infection, then I had "something" happen that caused my hands, feet, and face swell like ballons (all in about a week).
I was in EXTREME pain during that time (so much so that I was throwing up because of the pain). The only person in the world that I wanted was my mommy (dad would have done in a pinch, but mom was where it was at for me). Funny that with all my accomplishments when push came to shove and I was hurting and scared out of my mind (it is weird to have your whole body muntiny on you) mom was the first one I called.
What I am saying is that wanting mom when your sick is not always a sign of something "deeper".
Having said that I feel like it isnt the best course of action to "guess" about health problems. If after seeking help from the Dr. closest to her she still is not feeling well, I would suggest a second opinion from your Dr. (even though it does mean a 120 mile round trip) just to be SURE. There really IS a chance that something physical is causing her pain. If you are in the position to help out (and some parents are not) then I think you should.
I think many parents "know" when a kid is really sick or when they are faking. I did my share of faking when I was a kid but my mom always knew. (When I got sick in March it was on St. Patrick's Day so my mom KNEW I was sick when I couldnt finish the corn beef and cabbage). If after doing one more check up to clear up any physical problems, you feel your daughter is still depending on you to much, then I suggest a long talk with her about "moving on". Assure her that you will always be there for her in an emergancy, but that you feel that she needs to start taking care of things on her own.
If you daughter is in real pain, now is probably not the time to have that discusion.
posted on August 14, 2000 05:52:41 PM
Well, I hope that this does not come off as being unfeeling. There is a thin line between "Tough Love" and "Tough Luck" when on the receiving side.
However, perhaps you need a vacation after this particular crisis passes. Long one - without a phone - If you are not around to run to - then they might have to stand on their own feet.
My 2 cents to parents reading this is that the process of getting kids on their own starts years and years before they leave. About the age of 13, when I wanted something it was kinda made clear that I could buy it if I had a paycheck coming in with my name on it. They might kick in some - but it had to involve MY money for special things.
I of course would have prefered to not be a janitor in my High School afterhours - Or mowing 300+ yards one summer, but it was that or do without. (Swabbing out urinals will give you a whole different outlook about the value of an education - believe me)
I also had the chance to travel on my own at that age - even just a flight to stay with grandparents for a few weeks during summer. I later went (and saved the money) to go to London with my School theater group when I was a junior.
Did I fall and fail at times? - sure, and I lived through it - each and every time.
The point is that you never really feel like an adult until you are treated as one. And it is damned difficult to act like one if you don't feel like one.
posted on August 14, 2000 07:18:20 PM
HCQ-
I have watched you dispense questionable legal opinions in the past, but remained quiet, because at least you had worked in the field and had some credentials, however specious. But now, you are coming on pretty heavy with an unasked for psychiatric evaluation of a situation, when you don't know all the facts, have not examined the patient, and as far as you've told the board in the past, don't have the qualifications to diagnose (seeing someone in the mental health profession doesn't qualify a person to be one). Your advice goes well beyond "tough love", and is, in my opinion, very out of line.
rca001
posted on August 14, 2000 07:41:56 PM
Seems like I've been on the phone all day.. ack, with one break.... the post office...
Anyway, here is the thing to make it clear,
After dad left (for good, they don't see him, he 'has new family now') yes I did spoil her, because she had the most problems with it..... when it came time for jr high... it got worse, meaning, she 'started getting sick', she would NOT get out of bed in the morning, it came to a point, where I literally poured water on her! and what did she do? She pulled the sheet off, and layed back down.... then came the 'Becca Bill' (thats what its called in this state for truancy, and kids under 18 that have 10 days in a row of abscenses) I got subpeoned (sp?) for court! So, I went before the board of our school dist. ..
They demanded she see a 'school appointed' therapist. I didn't want her to... so I paid out of pocket a therapist, who did work with her for about 6 months, things got somewhat better, so she stopped seeing her, then it started again.... back to therapist, we are now talking Jr in H.S. by this time, the therapist suggested a pychiatrist, and I found one, not the school, or state. We went, 15 minutes, with this guy, and he dx'ed ADHD. I'm sorry, I know my child.... I know there ARE kids with ADD and ADHD, but Elizabeth was not.... he gave her Ritalin, I got the prescription, and gave her (she's 16 by this time) the dosage..... she came to me.... and was happy, yes... but she told me, and her sister, this is good stuff! (yes she had tried crank before..) that was it.... I threw the ritalin away... So, by this time she is 17 and doing the same thing in school, not going, or coming home, if she did go. When she was in school, she was a good student. And another thing, she doesn't look her age, and her friends suggested she try the modeling thing.... she went, without my knowledge, and of course they want her, for a price! No.
Anyway same thing with school. I thought about boot camp, in fact the therapist suggested it.... found some, they were pricey..... TADA the magical age... 18....I found JOB CORP. When we discussed it, she read the stuff on it.... of course she didn't like it, we went for interview.... after 18 they take you... under 18 you have to be below poverty.... So she was accepted.
She started Feb 1. First night, she called crying, I want to come home... I refused to get her..... after that? she was happy as can be.... went to find out how she was doing, she finished up GED and cont. high school,and is in a trade; medical assiting.
They also, if you keep in there, stay straight, no drugs, they test once a week, they will send you to the local community college. She is almost at that point! She is also dorm leader in her dorm.... so I don't understand this 'crying, mom get me' after 7 months! Talked to her counsler, they said she was doing great in her trade. I was amazed that she could get up at 6 am and go to classes... do the drills they do, meetings etc. She is all set to go to the college there, now this?
Tonight, I did get a call, the nurses got her a stronger anti b and she is taking it... and the MD comes there tommorow and she is seeing him.
I am not picking her up.
AND I highly recommend Job Corp for any kids that couldn't 'do' high school, or did H.S. and can't afford college. I could of helped her with community college, like her sister is doing, but she hadn't finished H.S. and this seemed like the best place. Its a very disciplined place.
Ahhhhhh..... she still has a 'dad' thing going, but 'dad' made it pretty clear, he didn't really want to see them awhile back, which is sad, but there has been little or no contact, he is out of this state anyway.
I do not keep them from him, never have, they are the ones, mostly Elizabeth that initiates it, she calls him! but I don't say anything..he doesn't talk long, and thats alot of what her therapy was about too.
So I am going to wait to see what the dr there says. And keep this tough love going...
We have a planned mini vacation for the 20-24 and she has that time off, so they consider it AWOL if she leaves now, I think she will be fine. Yes I worry, and care A LOT! but I have to do this, and try to have her make it on her own, though I will always be her for both of them.
posted on August 14, 2000 07:59:46 PM
Shadowcat, thats ok.... I was very upset, of course at the time, and didn't know, what to do.... we figured it out... and we are slowly..... getting thru it... now dealing with Elizabeth and this 'tough love' thing.
I haven't thought about their dad, they have, I was on a thread here about child support, actually it was my oldest daughter that wanted either myself, or her, since she is over 18, to go after him for child support.... I had thought about it.... and we talked about it, and decided it would cause more emotional crap, that she didn't need, he wouldn't like it, or her for doing it......
And now? Its much much MUCH better he isn't here! sh*t he'd be outta here in a heartbeat with what goes on, like now, my one daughter up there wanting to come home, and dealing with it? he couldn't... so its a good thing really, that he isn't here.
posted on August 14, 2000 08:39:46 PM
I'd say no Army because the Army people I see are all exhausted from back to back deployments and because there's not enough troops to go around are working 14 hour days trying to get the job done.
Then again, the same thing could be said for the AF...don't know about the Navy, don't see them around unless they're on leave.
posted on August 14, 2000 08:59:03 PMKRS: And I live the military life.
My brother got out of the military with a career that would translate real well in the real world. He was a fighter jet mechanic. Yup, big demand there.
*stepping away from the topic before moving into rant mode*
Just a suggestion - do some reading on "separation anxiety". This is something that you don't outgrow, sometimes you just have to adjust to it, but might make some sense.
Lots of therapists aren't worth a dern and don't try to find out the cause of a kid's problem. They think that certain problems only exist at certain ages, that just ain't so.
If he'd follow through and get an A&P license there is a large demand there.
I didn't suggest anything, but I wouldn't have suggested the Navy or the Air Force because from the sound of it this kid has already disqualified herself.
All of the branches, however, now train and make use of a variety of transferable skills.
A friend of mine's two sons emerged from the Navy with job offers in high tech industries, one electronic and the other in photocopy equipment repair.
Within five years the first was making six figures and the second seemed stuck at around $70,000. Neither had, at that time reached thirty years of age. The second, last I heard, had surpassed his brother and is an exec. at Kodak.
Nope. No future in it....none whatsoever. Unless they're good.
posted on August 14, 2000 09:30:37 PMKRS: True, my brother could have probably parlayed his 13 years experience into big bucks in the real world, but he was sick of working on planes and wanted to go back to college.
And the tom has a VERY marketable career. We joke that when he retires and gets a RW job, we'll finally be able to live in the manner to which we'd always wanted to become accustomed.
But if a person has a hard time conforming to what others expect or have the "right" attitude(whatever that may be), they'll have nothing but trouble in the military or they'll get by but they will be miserable.
(I'm prejudiced towards the AF, incidentally. I'm an AF brat, as well as an AF spouse.)
posted on August 14, 2000 09:32:12 PMShellyIn reading your post it seems to me that your daughter has come a very long way and is at least attempting to be pro-active in getting her life together. And, at least in this case, she did actually have an illness. So, maybe she's not reverting back to her old habits after all?
I have an 18 year old daughter also and I've found that she swings widely both ways in wanting to be completely independent of mom and dad and wanting to still be our little girl. I think it's entirely normal for teenagers to be torn between the two. It sounds like your daughter is taking positive steps into what can be a very scary journey into adulthood.
Your situation with your daughter is probably compounded because of the separation from her dad. If you can encourage her to really understand that this is his problem and his loss, it could go a long way in building her confidence. It would be a real shame for her to believe that his issue has anything at all to do with her.
As for the Army idea, I've only known one person on a close basis that went into the Army at a young age. He was a 16 year old high school drop out with a baby. It was basically a choice between the Army and minimum wage jobs. Today he swears that the Army was the major turning point in his life. He owns an extremely successful import/export business and says that the Army gave him the self-confidence and self-discipline that he needed in his life. So, that may not be such a bad choice, at least for some.
posted on August 14, 2000 10:05:22 PM
First KRS, more like a
"Buck Private & a Jerk" ya know?
(not that all military, Army or others are bad)
Jada, the separation anxiety is certainly there..and I have read a lot on it.
mybiddness-yes! she really has come a long way, even though some may say that 7 months isn't long, for this girl, its a real improvement! thats why I am so worried about this situation now. Like all of a sudden, after doing this well, she's regressed.
BUT, the call tonight was encouraging and she is seeing the dr up there tommorow.. whew... though I still believe she does have
this problem....
And lotsafuzz-I know where your coming from! Wow... I am 41 (yikes!) and when I am feeling down, or whatever, I do wish I had my mother! I think thats something most people feel.. I lost mine when I was 17.. and my father, wow... well we are not close, but I think he trys to 'make up for things' or something, he gives my girls stuff, like a new big ass truck for my oldest graduation, something I didn't think was right... and sends them money all the time....I finally told him, hey send me a check! LOL! geeeeeez
posted on August 14, 2000 10:24:01 PM
Ha! Don't look to the Army to "build character" anymore. Last year my best friend's son went into the Army. He'd graduated from high school but instead of college or looking for a job, he lazed about the house helping out only under duress & expecting his mother to pay for everything & to do everyhting for him. She finally said he could only stay at home if he went to college & otherwise he could move out on his own or try the military. He opted for the Army...and three months later they discharged him. Why? Because he didn't like being there, didn't like being told what to do, and he wanted out. They *could* have been the making of him, instead they said gave in to his whining.
posted on August 14, 2000 11:08:28 PM
Well their dad got out on a 'general discharge', not sure how, he went AWOL for 18 days.. not sure why they didn't give him a dishonorable.... but he did do almost 4 years, and thats where he learned his trade, he was a diesel mechanic, and worked for Hyster for a long time.
posted on August 14, 2000 11:22:34 PM
Shelly: Im sorry about your mom. I can't imagine where I would have ended up if I lost mine at 17.
While I would like to take full credit for what I have accomplished, I know I wouldn't be half the person I am today without my parents. I also know that no one will ever be there for my like my folks have. Who else would sit for 12 hours in the ER while I cried in pain and puked? I later said that after all she had been though that night it was my MOM who should have gotten the neat-o drugs! LOL
posted on August 14, 2000 11:29:05 PM
Guess there has to be blocks to build with, and some never get any formed at home. But that's a different subject, bunnicula. Shelly's kid sounds to have some stuff to work with.
posted on August 15, 2000 12:04:00 AM"But if a person has a hard time conforming to what others expect or have the "right" attitude(whatever that may be"
...will have problems in all areas of life and employment, and not (just) the military.
Until the US military was forced to bend to the liberal whimp-out way of doing things, the military (was) quite adept at adjusting such an attitude and personality.
You have done a wonderful job with your daughter. Good for you in getting rid of the Ritalin.
I just have one thought from reading what you wrote. Some of us hate change. Is it possible that the problem might lie in the fact that she feels comfortable where she is and is feeling very anxious in moving on and starting college which in her mind is a whole new ballgame? It sounds as though she has really made a place for herself there and maybe is afraid og losing the structure it has afforded her.
I think you are doing the right thing just keep the old stiff upper lip.
and hopefully it will be more of the great!
