fenix03
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posted on June 14, 2005 07:26:05 PM new
And tomorrow the insanity begins again....
The medical examiner's office plans to release its autopsy report Wednesday on Terri Schiavo
Anyone taking bets on the likelihood of an apology if results show that Terri's coma was not the result of physical abuse?
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
- Ann Coulter
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kraftdinner
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posted on June 14, 2005 07:51:36 PM new
Good one Fenix! Yeah, sure... there will be tons of apologies. 
I don't think it matters at all what the outcome of the autospy will be. People will stick to their guns even when evidence proves otherwise. They have all through this ordeal. She was just another case for right to lifers and people against husbands that carry on with their life too quickly, imo.
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Libra63
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posted on June 14, 2005 08:33:47 PM new
Your right KD, well partially. When he took over his second life he should have given the guardianship to her parents. That is all I am going to say on the matter.
I'll watch from the sidelines.
_________________
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Helenjw
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posted on June 15, 2005 08:01:12 AM new
"I don't think it matters at all what the outcome of the autospy will be. People will stick to their guns even when evidence proves otherwise."
Exactly right! Any evidence which doesn't support their wing-nut agenda doesn't exist. Instead, they will rant against "judicial tyranny".
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Helenjw
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posted on June 15, 2005 08:33:43 AM new
Schiavo autopsy report backs husband
Medical examiner says she suffered from 'irreversible' brain injury
TAMPA, Fla. - In a victory for Michael Schiavo, a coroner who performed an autopsy on Terri Schiavo reported Wednesday that she suffered from an irreversible brain injury and would not have recovered as her parents insisted was possible.
Her brain was profoundly atrophied," Jon Thogmartin, medical examiner for Florida's Pinellas and Pasco counties, told a press conference. "There was massive neuronal loss, or death. This was irreversible."
He added that all evidence indicated that she could not have survived without a feeding tube.
In response to questions, Thogmartin said there was no evidence Schiavo suffered from abuse.
In addition, the report said no evidence existed that Michael Schiavo tried to hasten his wife's death via drugs or other substances as her parents had alleged.
Schiavo died March 31 at the age of 41, nearly two weeks after the feeding tube keeping her alive was removed by a court order sought by her husband, Michael Schiavo.
Her death marked the end of a bitter, seven-year legal battle between Michael Schiavo and her parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, who desperately tried to keep her alive. Their efforts reached the halls of the Congress and made news around the world.
Cont...
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crowfarm
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posted on June 15, 2005 08:37:17 AM new
Sure makes liars out of a lot of people.
And all the "doctors" here look pretty foolish with their "diagnosis".
[ edited by crowfarm on Jun 15, 2005 08:48 AM ]
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kiara
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posted on June 15, 2005 08:55:50 AM new
Maybe the Vendio doctors who googled their medical license will watch from the sidelines or disappear and hope the thread just sinks and no one bumps it.
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crowfarm
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posted on June 15, 2005 09:04:15 AM new
""googled their medical license ""
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Linda_K
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posted on June 15, 2005 09:24:23 AM new
Guess not too many here actually WATCHED and LISTENED to the doctor explain the results.
They STILL don't know what caused her initial collapse. But her body didn't show signs of suffering from anorexia.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
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CBlev65252
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posted on June 15, 2005 09:35:06 AM new
Linda
Don't forget to add: There was no sign of abuse. Or, was that purposely forgotten?
Cheryl
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dblfugger9
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posted on June 15, 2005 09:35:41 AM new
Linda, I didnt see/watch/or hear about it as yet. But my initial feeling was they werent going to be able to tell much from the autopsy. Of course there was going to be atrophies after years and years of any brain injury, and left untreated?? What do you expect?
Cheryl, the only way they could determing that is if they could attribute scar tissue or other malformations, but 20 years later and with the whole thing...I dont see how they could even make a realistic determination of that.
.
[ edited by dblfugger9 on Jun 15, 2005 09:38 AM ]
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crowfarm
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posted on June 15, 2005 09:46:06 AM new
Hearing from the "doctors" and "experts" who "googled their medical licenses"
Ha Ha !
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Linda_K
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posted on June 15, 2005 10:22:09 AM new
How funny.....NOW cheryl wants me to answer a questions from her?
And I thought I personally, was the ONLY reason she hardly posts here anymore. She just runs when I ask her questions, or when I make statements that don't agree with hers. LOL LOL LOL
Don't forget to add: There was no sign of abuse. Or, was that purposely forgotten? Cheryl
--------------------
dbl - From what I took from the doctor this morning was: Terri had SEVERE osteoporisis....and that attributed to what they felt was most of her broken bones.
BUT....I think in fairness to her family and to all others who felt her husband could have been the cause of all her broken bones, by abuse...how many people have that severe of a case that would be the cause of all those bones breaking in someone so very, very young. Very, very few. And as he explained...it does occur frequently in a lot of these type cases.
So...I'm hopeful that now that some of the points of argument over all this have become more clear....Terri's family and her so called husband can reach a point of forgiveness and healing.
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NearTheSea
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posted on June 15, 2005 11:01:43 AM new
I dunno, I still have to think I am a 'pro life' person.
The whole thing that made me think about this whole thing, was the husband. He could have divorced her long ago, and 'got on with his life', and let the parents take care of her, as they wanted to. They, I'm sure were hoping for a miracle, as they do happen on occasion.
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crowfarm
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posted on June 15, 2005 11:05:01 AM new
Yes, NTS, and then some in here would've bashed him for "deserting" his wife just because of her condition !
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kraftdinner
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posted on June 15, 2005 11:34:12 AM new
I bet anyone here that has a partner they love would not let anyone else take control of their welfare if they told you beforehand they didn't want to live as a vegetable. Do any of you think you wouldn't do all you could to make sure there was no hope of recovery before you made that decision? And if you didn't want to let go, wouldn't you also make up ANY story you could to make sure that didn't happen?
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dblfugger9
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posted on June 15, 2005 11:46:38 AM new
Linda: how many people have that severe of a case that would be the cause of all those bones breaking in someone so very, very young..
That is a good point. I wonder why her bones became so brittle? Was it from inactivity? Some lack of calcium? I'd have to read up on it, but it seems to me that it would be the opposite?
Kraft:..[i] wouldn't you also make up ANY story you could [//i]
Not so sure I would? Although I think since their (schiavo and the parents) falling out was kinda volatile - there probably was a mixture of some real things (done maybe in anger and frustration) and some imagined by all concerned. But we will probably never know. But, I think one of the friends or somebody I saw interviewed said there were other allegations they had proof of that they couldn't discuss at the time, but thoughts of a book were in the works.
Crowfarm, you are such an idiot. There is a big difference between deserting your wife to leaving her to LIVE with her parents who want to take care of her as opposed to preferring her dead as he did. There's no way to get around that. The mans preference was to see her dead and buried.
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Linda_K
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posted on June 15, 2005 11:47:22 AM new
There was plenty of reasons to suspect the husband. Plenty.
And with the findings here...they still don't know what caused her death. Her parents, family and friends have all spoken about how she wanted out of this marrige. The results of this autopy doesn't change a lot of that.
And we don't know had she received proper care from the beginning, which many deny she got....maybe her brain wouldn't have continue to get worse.
There are, and always will be, many unknowns.
But when one does not have this in writing....I don't think anyone, even a spouse, should make the decision for the patient.....unless there is absolutly NO disagreement about doing so from any relatives involved. ESPECIALLY a spouse that had gained substancially in the court settlement and didn't appear, by his actions, to want it spent on his wife's rehab.
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fenix03
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posted on June 15, 2005 11:47:27 AM new
I think one of the most interesting things is that she was blind. Her parents and lawyers insisted that she would follow the balloon and such with her eyes but the autopsy showed that this one aspect that they insisted was proof of her cognizance was an even bigger case of wishful thinking than initially thought.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
- Ann Coulter
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Linda_K
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posted on June 15, 2005 11:53:28 AM new
For me personally, after watching the TAPED video of her turning her own head to follow the balloons being moved from side to side....that's hard to believe. But there are different degrees of blindness...and I don't know how they could really make that diagnose without the patient responding themself about what's 'blurred' and what's not. Maybe that part is further explained in the more detailed report that was given to the media.
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fenix03
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posted on June 15, 2005 11:53:41 AM new
::There's no way to get around that. The mans preference was to see her dead and buried.::
Is it really so impossible to believe that he fought to follow her wishes? There is very strange contridiction in the arguement on Terri's family side. On one point, they said that she was cognizant and aware of all that was going on and then they turn right around and make this arguement that in no way considers her wishes as if she's a piece of furniture.
I only hope that if I were ever in the same situation that someone would sacrifice as much as her husband did to follow my wishes. Lord knows it would have been so much easier to just ignore them, pawn her off on her parents, and move on with his life without all of the pawyers, courts and television pundits ripping every aspect of his life.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
- Ann Coulter
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classicrock000
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posted on June 15, 2005 11:56:39 AM new
"Crowfarm, you are such an idiot."
well....no arguement in this corner......
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Baseball season has started,but they have it all wrong.3 strikes and you're out,4 balls you walk.I can tell you right now a man with 4 balls could not possibly walk
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fenix03
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posted on June 15, 2005 11:57:43 AM new
There are a number of different things that could indicate blindness in the autopsy. I seriously doubt that a medical examiner in such an important case would hypothesize.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
- Ann Coulter
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Linda_K
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posted on June 15, 2005 11:59:17 AM new
To me, when there is life that life should be honored. Her murder, the removal of food and water is what killed her. Nothing else.
This begins our way down the slippery slope of taking the lives of those with what some consider 'lesser value'.
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crowfarm
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posted on June 15, 2005 12:06:59 PM new
Once again Dr. Google voices an "opinion".....knows waaaaay more then the attending physicians and the doctor who did the autopsy....why, she must've been right in the room with him!(giving advice all the while no doubt).....and waving her medical degree!
But she should call the police because these "murders" are happening every day around the world.....
c'mon, call 911 and report it...I'm sure they'll give you plenty of attention
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dblfugger9
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posted on June 15, 2005 12:08:05 PM new
::Is it really so impossible to believe that he fought to follow her wishes? ::
Fenix, you have your opinion and I have mine. Do you friggin mind? Gawd!
As posted eariler by me on this subject, I saw an interview with a group of her friends and they said they didnt think Terri would have said that or wanted that. What they said rang very genuine and true to me. Some of them had known her since her childhood.
.
[ edited by dblfugger9 on Jun 15, 2005 12:17 PM ]
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kraftdinner
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posted on June 15, 2005 12:12:29 PM new
Linda & Double, what about what Fenix just said? Wouldn't it have been easier for her husband to give up Terri to her parents from the beginning if his motivation was to get rid of her?
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dblfugger9
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posted on June 15, 2005 12:14:05 PM new
oh come on kraft! The guy was a total control freak -- it is never "easier" for that type of person to give up anything!
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kraftdinner
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posted on June 15, 2005 12:31:50 PM new
A control freak? So, he wanted to get rid of her but because he was a control freak, he didn't want to get rid of her to pacify his freakish ways. Sure thing, Double.
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Linda_K
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posted on June 15, 2005 12:36:25 PM new
KD - Yes, but what you're not seeing, imo, is that had he done just that....he would have lost control of all that money the court awarded for her care. That, imo, is why he didn't want to do so.
As has been stated before...immediately following receiving the 'check' he discontinued all her care. He then started saying she wouldn't have wanted to live in this condition.
BUT...he hadn't said any such thing to the court when he was supposedly fighting to get money for her rehab.
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