posted on November 21, 2005 07:56:24 AM
Dbl - this is a good example of the problems with news outlets that go for the sensational. Yes, theey did announce intentions to lay-off 30,000 people but they are structured lay-offs to take place by 2008.
By the way - I think $4 billion in annual losses a little more than just sluggish sales... time to do some major restructuring.
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DETROIT - General Motors Corp. will eliminate 30,000 jobs and close nine North American assembly, stamping and powertrain plants by 2008 as part of an effort to get production in line with demand and position the world's biggest automaker to start making money again after absorbing nearly $4 billion in losses so far this year.
The announcement Monday by Rick Wagoner, GM's chairman and CEO, represents 5,000 more job cuts than the 25,000 that the automaker had previously indicated it planned to cut.
The 30,000 job cuts represents about 9 percent of GM's global work force of about 325,000 people.
"The decisions we are announcing today were very difficult to reach because of their impact on our employees and the communities where we live and work," Wagoner told employees. "But these actions are necessary for GM to get its costs in line with our major global competitors. In short, they are an essential part of our plan to return our North American operations to profitability as soon as possible."
The plan will cut the number of vehicles GM is able to build in North America by about 1 million a year by the end of 2008.
GM said the assembly plants that will close are in Oklahoma City, Lansing, Mich., Spring Hill, Tenn., Doraville, Ga., and Ontario, Canada. A shift also will be removed at a plant in Moraine, Ohio.
An engine facility in Flint, Mich., will close, along with a separate powertrain facility in Ontario and metal centers in Lansing and Pittsburgh.
Wagoner said GM also will close three service and parts operations facilities. They are in Ypsilanti, Mich., and Portland, Ore. One other site will to be announced later.
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An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
posted on November 21, 2005 08:28:37 AM
Well even if it is a structured lay-off, the timing for the announcement is bad! It makes the markets jumpie and people get concerned about the holiday. I know I do.
Werent they just brimming back in the summer with that employee discount deals? some said that while the sales were good then, it was going to backfire on them in the long run. Guess it didnt take too long...
posted on November 21, 2005 10:00:28 AM
At the time I saw those ads I thought that the manufacturers offering it were in trouble. Buyers seem to get the best deals when the manufacturers are having a hard time selling their cars...
____________________
"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." -- George W. Bush
posted on November 21, 2005 10:28:29 AM
Just one more sign of our booming economy
However, many corporations lie (surprise, surprise!) ...they announce big lay offs so they appear to be doing something about their problems.
Yes, they will lay off some people ....and it really doesn't matter WHY or WHEN when YOU are the one being laid off...your economy will suffer.
I think it's ridiculous to worry about being laid off right before the hoildays...worry about what's coming in the next year.
posted on November 21, 2005 10:44:20 AM
Not all will be laid off, some will get early retirement.
Most layoffs and plant closures happen at this time of year, just the way business runs.
Would you rather run up bills over the holidays and get laid off in Jan. or be informed now?
The GM plant in Beaverton will start shutting down mid-next year.
And the economy is doing great, Here in this area lowest unemployment in 4 years.
Ron
"Better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you are not."
posted on November 21, 2005 10:46:29 AM
The POINT, dble, and I'm not talking about the one on your head, is that if you lose your job, the "holidays" are not as important as what you are going to do to support yourself into the coming years ahead.
Sorry, that's just common sense.....not for you......
posted on November 21, 2005 10:55:09 AM
Have to agree with Dblfugger on this--and I'm an athiest.
The Christmas holidays are seen by everyone as a time of warmth, family and cheer. Everyone is getting together, buying presents for one and all. Even non-Christians partake in the secular aspects of the holiday.
Being told of lay-offs just before the holiday season seems colder and more heartless than at any other time of the year. Being told you are going to be layed off in June may be just as bad financially, but doesn't have the same impact to the psyche as receiving the same message in November or December.
____________________
"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." -- George W. Bush
posted on November 21, 2005 10:55:16 AM
I agree with Ron's statement....plus...I've read many times when plant layoffs are in the news....besides what Ron said they do...they also often give them the choice to take a job at another factory, in another state.
And yes, even though 'the sky is falling liberals' want to make everyone think our economy is in bad shape....anyone who actually researches will find it's quite strong and growing.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on November 21, 2005 11:06:21 AM
Didn't G.M. say they were laying off thousands of workers just a couple months ago? If I remember right G.M. was going to close a NJ plant at the time?
Is this 30,000 lay offs over and above the thousands of lay offs already in the works?
What's next, will G.M. say, (Oh BTW we are very sorry) but we can't fund our pension plan any longer? I think G.M. is already saying that about health insurance plans for their workers.
Another blow to the American middle and working class. What's left of them anyway.
posted on November 21, 2005 11:15:56 AM
Maybe if the Americans would make better cars this wouldnt be happening.We just got a Honda,and my wife loves it.You want a good car?
buy JAPANESE
posted on November 21, 2005 11:19:42 AM
No Peepea - it includes them. they were going to announce 25K and had to up it to 30. As for before holiday season... figure it this way.. it has to be done before the end of quarter... would you rather them wait until after people have done all of their holiday shopping thinking they would remain employed, or give them the advance info so they can plan for it?
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
posted on November 21, 2005 11:22:59 AM
Yeah, but your Honda is more likely to be stolen than my PT Cruiser
In fact, Hondas are the number 1 stolen car. At my work, three staff member's Hondas were stolen this year, while my Cruiser, an Alfa Romeo, several brand-new SUVs and various other brand-new cars were left unmolested.
For me, that makes a Honda a less desirable car.
____________________
"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." -- George W. Bush
posted on November 21, 2005 11:33:45 AM
Any sane person.
PT Cruisers are the best: well-made cars with style and individuality, that are fun to drive. They are especially nice if you want that 30's car look, but don't want to renovate a car from the 30s.
Whereas Hondas, and 99% of all other vehicles, look just like...each other. These days it's hard to tell various cars apart because they are all clones of each other.
____________________
"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." -- George W. Bush
posted on November 21, 2005 11:56:01 AM
I think Mingo was saying that Christmas is just a one time event. It's what do you do after Christmas when you have no job to go to. I agree Mingo.
P.S. Get a Subaru if you're going to buy a new car. They rule!
posted on November 21, 2005 12:36:57 PM
::the "holidays" are not as important as what you are going to do to support yourself into the coming years ahead. ::
The importance of holidays are relative to people mingo. I know you just 'dont get it' but news like this puts a damper out there. People who work all year long look forward to 'the holidays' partly because it is a main event for gatherings, that do not occur during the rest of the year. They are saying GM might be filing for bancrupcy. Thats a sad state for this country. And they sponser alot of advertising, etc. it will have a trickling effect all down the line. You watch.
posted on November 21, 2005 12:41:06 PM
Best well made? I drive a dodge pick-up; simply love it and was looking at getting a PT Cruiser, like the looks. I test drove one and it rode worse than my truck, plus did not seem to be as well built. Seemed rather cheap. It is a good looking vehicle, so I am going to look at the Chevy HH2? next.
Ron
"Better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you are not."
[ edited by WashingtoneBayer on Nov 21, 2005 12:44 PM ]
posted on November 21, 2005 02:00:02 PM
I just bot a Honda,certified preowned Honda Accord,no tuneup needed until past 110,000 miles,no timing belt.
100,000 miles/7 years powertrain warranty ,since I dont drive much,it will be good till 2011.
48,000 miles/4 years non powertrain warranty ,since i dont drive much,it will be 2008.
These warranties are transferrable.
Japanese cars such as Honda Accord and Toyota Camry have higher resale values than American cars.
You may pay more upfront,but it is worth the money.
/ lets all stop whining !! /
posted on November 21, 2005 03:14:31 PM
Screw buying a new car!
I bought my 1991 Volvo Wagon 3 years ago with 174,000 miles. I now have 214,000 miles on it and it runs like it is brand new. They are built to last and last and last and last. Our new puppy loves it too!
Also, just a suggestion for those who like to have nice stereo's. Buy an Eclipse. I have one in my Volvo, and don't have an alarm. They sound great, they have a security feature that prevents them from being used if the stereo is stolen. You assign a "key" cd to unlock it if the battery is ever disco'd. It is absolutely useless to thieves if stolen (unless they know the key CD), and Eclipse will even replace it (up to 1 year from date of purchase) if it is stolen. Ironically... My other car (a Hyundai Accent GT) had an Alpine CD and an alarm system. Guess which one got broken into?
I don't remember saying anything about Christmas but thanks for your insight.
I do worry that G.M. will go before the courts and say they can't pay pensions.
I wonder if there are any government stats about pension and stuff like 401k loss. How many Americans have lost their retirement in the last few years?
Maybe that's one reason why there are so many old timers working at places like Wal-Mart.
[ edited by bigpeepa on Nov 21, 2005 04:29 PM ]
posted on November 21, 2005 04:52:07 PM
the ones who work at Walmart did not lose their pension,their pension is just too meager to make ends meet.
/ lets all stop whining !! /
posted on November 21, 2005 07:26:31 PM
We drive American trucks, specifically GMC's. Nobody makes a truck like the U.S....cars however, are another matter. We have a new Honda, and it is our 3rd in 15 years. They don't break, they are a kick to drive and they go almost forever. My wife commutes 60 miles a day, 4 days a week on average. Almost half that distance is dirt road..her Honda takes a beating and never whimpers...When U.S. manufacturers get up on their hind legs and make cars as well as they make trucks, and figure out how to compete with the Japanese and others, they'll make money. Note to GM, Ford, Chrysler et al: Make me a fun to drive, comfortable, impeccably made 35mpg car that will go a quarter of a million miles without so much as a whimper, and I'll be yours forever. Until then, the Japs get my money.
If you study up on the protections the UAW has built in to contracts, you'll see that it's not like people are going to be handed surprise pink slips. Most workers' contracts require that they be compensated quite handsomely in the event of plant closures, downsizing or restructuring. A recent study indicated that the average GM plant worker is within 5 years of retirement age, in other words, about 1 or maybe 2 contracts away from retirement. Most of those 30,000 jobs are going to be handled through attrition; that is, timely retirement, the bulk of the rest will be buyouts. It's unlikely that any of them are going to be bounced with 2 weeks notice.
Still, it is too bad they had to announce this at the start of the "festive" (*gags*) season....people are sure to get it wrong..
____________________________________________
Habla siempre que debas y calla siempre que puedas....
posted on November 21, 2005 11:56:18 PM
"""The importance of holidays are relative to people mingo. I know you just 'dont get it' but news like this puts a damper out there. People who work all year long look forward to 'the holidays' partly because it is a main event for gatherings, that do not occur during the rest of the year."""
Dble, you just don't "get it"...yes, news like this puts a damper out there, these people are NOT going to get the golden parachutes some imply they are, they will be without jobs which according to the repugs means the economy is booming.
ADULTS who know they're losing their jobs should be a little more far-sighted than whining about not spending themselves into debt for Christmas. A mortgage payment all of a sudden has more meaning than a Christmas tree (if they're THINKING).
I'm so sorry for the people for whom Christmas is the ONLY time they share the warmth of family get togethers....my family has many throughout the year...we like each other ALL the time not just at Christmas...we even feel perfectly free to give each other gifts any time we feel like it (and do).
WE don't need society to tell US when to give someone a gift....or when to have a party. Maybe some people DO need to be told because otherwise they'd never feel generous or invite others over for a party.....
A N D
I do NOT knock other people for their belief in, or love of, Christmas ! If you like it , fine, but don''t knock somebody just because they don't ...it's no skin off your nose!
