posted on January 13, 2006 03:02:03 PM new
I'm tired of hearing slurs and closed minds when it comes to gays. What's your problem? Yes, I know the lifestyle has been interpreted in the Bible as being wrong, but if it wasn't interpreted that way in the Bible, would you all still feel the same way? Do you have sexual hang-ups that make you think what they do sexually is wrong? What is it?
posted on January 13, 2006 03:20:31 PM new
I generally take the religious point of view for obvious reasons. But let's leave that completely out of it for now.
-------------------------------------------
The purpose of sex is reproduction, not pleasure. Sexual pleasure only exists as an incentive to procreate. If it didn't feel good, we'd have died out millions of years ago
I hate to belabor the obvious, but only a man and woman together can reproduce. Anything else is biologically inefficient and counter-reproductive.
Heterosexual reproduction is a biological imperative. Anything else is just for pleasure, which may be nice, but it has NO other justification other than it feels good.
It would probably feel good to run down the street naked too, but we're not allowed to do that.
The whole "biological imperative" thing is just really a scientific way of stating we were intelligently designed through natural selection to want to do what leads to procreation. Anything else is a biological dead-end.
In other words, and in all seriousness, if all homosexuals were left to their own devices, they would cease to exist after a generation or two. This point has been used as a joke many times in the past, but it's quite real. Those who believe homosexuality is genetic or that you "are born that way" are in effect, singing the death-knell of that particular genetic defect. Natural selection alone will solve the problem. I don't believe homosexuality is a genetic thing, but if it IS, then it can only be considered one of the most serious genetic defects ever, since this gene is guaranteed to cause the extinction of those who carry it.
Maybe we should stick to religion. The scientific argument is entirely on my side.
-------------------------------------------
Oboy. If this post doesn't get pulled, I'll be amazed.
-------------------------------------------
And I will edit this to add: I do NOT hate gays. Not at all. But I am definitely against people pushing the gay agenda as if it were a good thing. It is NOT a good thing. Gays should be allowed to do whatever they want, but do it in the privacy of their own homes.
[ edited by replaymedia on Jan 13, 2006 03:28 PM ]
posted on January 13, 2006 03:32:41 PM new
You asked why it was wrong. I answered it.
I don't FEAR that they can't procreate... It's an obvious fact.
If you want me to say I have a sexual hang-up or phobia about this, it's not going to happen. I gave a thought-out, analytical response to your question. There is no psychological agenda behind my statement.
--------------------------------------
Quidquid Latine dictum sit altum sonatur.
posted on January 13, 2006 03:47:47 PM new
Animals and Abe Lincoln do it because it feels good too. But they aren't lobbying congress for laws establishing gay marriage or creating sitcoms that show how wacky and fun the gay life can be.
But you remind me of another point:
The fact that animals do it too lends weight to the argument that it's not genetic. If it were, those animal would have died out millennia ago.
Humans can go against their genetic tendencies if the social situation requires it. Take for example, that in the 1800's (and most other centuries) when gay men married women and had children because society required and expected it. The "gay gene" could have been handed down through the generations, even though it is counter-reproductive. But animals wouldn't have that societal pressure, and natural selection would have run its course. The very existence of same-sex relations between animals proves, or at least support,s the belief that homosexuality is NOT genetic.
[ edited by replaymedia on Jan 13, 2006 03:55 PM ]
posted on January 13, 2006 03:55:35 PM new
There is no verifiable truth that Abe Lincoln was gay.
You keep using that as something shows how ignorant you actually are nerfball.
Is that your only reason to like gays is because you think Abe Lincoln was one? Pathetic.
I have no problem with gays married or single, loss of revenue to the govts that don't allow gay marriage and loss of revenue to those who protest it. It should not be a big deal, money is wasted on it and in the long run who actually wins?
If you don't like the postings kraftdinner, leave. And take your intolerance with you.
Ron
"Better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you are not."
posted on January 13, 2006 03:57:50 PM new
Because it's not wacky and fun. That's just the Will & Grace liberal gay agenda propaganda machine talking.
I think in many cases, homosexuals KNOW they are wrong. That's why they protest so much. They just see a need to validate their lifestyle, so they push this agenda and try to legislate for special rights.
--------------------------------------
Quidquid Latine dictum sit altum sonatur.
posted on January 13, 2006 04:01:32 PM new
And Washington, I just didn't see the need to dispute the Abe Lincoln thing. It's just silly, and in my opinion irrelevant. But no, I don't believe that either. If he were gay, someone would have published the information- newspapers back then were just as tenacious as the scandal-mongers today.
--------------------------------------
Quidquid Latine dictum sit altum sonatur.
posted on January 13, 2006 04:03:47 PM new
Replay, I understand your thoughts on this subject as well as others.
It just bothers me that it seems like tolerance has become a mantra of the left but they are the least tolerant of all.
edited for correction profe51 is the grammar and spelling monitor. Thanks profe.
Wouldn't want some communist thinking I am giving them a compliment.
Ron
"Better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you are not."
[ edited by WashingtoneBayer on Jan 14, 2006 01:05 PM ]
posted on January 13, 2006 04:13:18 PM new
Abe Lincoln carried on a long term relationship with a man named Joshua Speed and shared a bed with him for 4 years as a lawyer. I'm sure it was platonic, though.
I don't like gays, and I don't dislike them. I am a little indifferent on the subject. On the one hand, it means more women for me...on the other, watching two dudes get intimate is repulsive to me. But I still don't pass judgment on them.
Replay, you still seem to have a ways to go in your religious studies. The Bible is very clear on homosexuals, but it is also very clear on a womans place, and supportive of slavery. So do you support those biblicals standards as well?
You say that homosexuals KNOW they are wrong, because they are having sex without the intention of reproduction. How many children do you have? How many times have you had sex? Are the two numbers equal? Ever masturbated?
posted on January 13, 2006 04:14:14 PM new "Because it's not wacky and fun. That's just the Will & Grace liberal gay agenda propaganda machine talking."
It's called love, replay. Why do you object to two people in love?
posted on January 13, 2006 04:38:04 PM new
Helen: I have no problem with same-sex LOVE. It's the SEX I am referring to with the natural selection bit. Again, if people LOVE each other and want to have SEX in their own home, fine.
What people do in their own homes does not bother me. Just don't preach it in the schools and on TV like it's a good thing.
Nerfball: "The Bible is very clear on homosexuals, but it is also very clear on a womans place, and supportive of slavery. So do you support those biblicals standards as well? "
Who said I supported Biblical standards? That book is so full of contradictions that you cannot use it as an absolute guide to life. If I remember correctly in my very first post in this thread, I said I would leave the Bible out of it.
But to answer you, I'm all for women's equality, and of course by today's standards, slavery is a bad thing. Although I should point out that the slavery supported in the Bible was nothing like pre-Civil-War American slavery- most slaves were quite happy with their lives and in fact lived better than many freedman. The New Testament was written in Greek & Roman times, and slavery was very far evolved from the days of the "Evil Egyptians" and Moses.
------------------------------------
"Ever masturbated?"
I'll leave that mental picture to your imagination. But assuming I have, you won't see me lobbying congress to get a tax break because of it or making films of it showing how it's a good thing that everyone should accept.
------------------------------------
--------------------------------------
Quidquid Latine dictum sit altum sonatur.
posted on January 13, 2006 04:41:39 PM new
The point is, since apparently I have to spell it out, is that very few, (if any) people have sex solely for procreation - let's be realistic.
As far as your statement about slaves being very happy, what do you base that on?
posted on January 13, 2006 04:43:00 PM new
Replay, maybe fear was the wrong word. Would non-acceptance be better? Actually, I'm not sure what word to use.
By saying "if all homosexuals were left to their own devices...", you assume they would somehow wipe themselves out, yet there have been homosexuals throughout history and they haven't been wiped out, plus it's made no difference in the population. Did you mean something different than the way I took it?
And I don't want to argue with anyone. Sorry if it appeared that way, but I thought Replay, who is majoring in religion, would have a "deeper" reason than the biological fact gays can't procreate as being the reason for the slurs.
posted on January 13, 2006 04:45:48 PM new
If we spent more time worrying about ourselves and what we're doing and less about other people and what they're doing. . .
My brother is gay and I love him just as much as I would if he were straight. The same goes for the rest of the family and my mother is religious enough that she attends bible study once a week and goes to church every Sunday. My brother and his partner have always been welcomed into her home and ours. In fact his partner, John, is my best friend. I don't see how what a person living next door to you, or down the street from you, does in the privacy of their own home affects any of you in the least. Like my mother said when I was younger: Worry more about yourself and less about what others are doing. IOW - mind you own business.
I don't like what we used to call PDA (public display of affection) between hetero- or homosexuals.
Edited to add: Unless you've been appointed by God (and can prove that you were) to bring judgement down upon the homosexuals of the world, I think it's best to allow Him to do the judging.
Cheryl
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
[ edited by cblev65252 on Jan 13, 2006 04:48 PM ]
posted on January 13, 2006 05:02:39 PM new
"you assume they would somehow wipe themselves out, yet there have been homosexuals throughout history and they haven't been wiped out,"
See my other post about how homosexuals in the past werre forced by societal norms to marry and have children. They may not have wanted to, but they did it. In this case, society demanded that gays breed, thereby propagating the gay gene. Those societal forces are no longer in place today. If all gays did same-sex marriages, homosexuality would end within a few decades. Again, this is assuming the genetic theory, which I really do not believe. I still vote for "it's a choice," but I could be proven wrong on this someday. But not yet.
"Replay, who is majoring in religion, would have a "deeper" reason than the biological fact"
I was trying to avoid Religion for the very reason that facts are stronger and are harder to argue. If I say it's "because God said so," that's not going to inspre much discussion.
You want Religion? OK, here goes:
A) The Jewish Bible not only says that homosexuality is wrong, but it condemns them to death and it is up to the people to stone them.
B) The Qu'ran condems it too, and I'm not going to look up the punishment, but I bet it's worse than stoning
C) I don't know Hinduism's point of view on this, but it pretty much has to be bad karma since it goes against the cycle of rebirth.
D) Buddhists probably agree with the Hindus.
E) The Christian Bible says it's a sin and you're going to hell for it, but it's up to God to judge, not you. I do think Jesus would go along with the statement "hate the sin, love the sinner". And Jesus always spoke out against those who were spreading false teachings or those who spoke against God. He would not be for them pushing that agenda.
Other than every single major religion in the world strictly prohibits it, there really isn't that much to say. God/Allah/Vishnu's Word is not up for debate. That's why I wanted to go the science route
--------------------------------------
Quidquid Latine dictum sit altum sonatur.
posted on January 13, 2006 05:12:05 PM new
Soon, the distinction between gay and straight culture will blurr and intermingle and there will be no need to carry on a conversation like this. Already, Massachusetts has ended the distinction between the marriage certificates that gay and straight couples receive.
posted on January 13, 2006 05:41:28 PM newThe purpose of sex is reproduction, not pleasure. Sexual pleasure only exists as an incentive to procreate. If it didn't feel good, we'd have died out millions of years ago
So I guess the only time straight people have sex is when they want to procreate? How many unwanted pregnancies have there been because people did not mean to have a baby when they were having sex?
I hate to belabor the obvious, but only a man and woman together can reproduce.
Biologically speaking - yes. However medical science has helped in that area for those couples that want to have a baby but can not.
Anything else is biologically inefficient and counter-reproductive.
So what do you suggest we do with all the couples that want to have a baby but can't and those couples that get married and choose not to have kids?
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
---------------------------------- The duty of a patriot in this time and place is to ask questions, to demand answers, to understand where our nation is headed and why. If the answers you get do not suit you, or if they frighten you, or if they anger you, it is your duty as a patriot to dissent. Freedom does not begin with blind acceptance and with a flag. Freedom begins when you say 'No.'
posted on January 13, 2006 05:45:27 PM newIf you want me to say I have a sexual hang-up or phobia about this, it's not going to happen.
You should have stopped while you were ahead.
This statement in my opinion shows you do have a phobia: I think in many cases, homosexuals KNOW they are wrong. That's why they protest so much.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
---------------------------------- The duty of a patriot in this time and place is to ask questions, to demand answers, to understand where our nation is headed and why. If the answers you get do not suit you, or if they frighten you, or if they anger you, it is your duty as a patriot to dissent. Freedom does not begin with blind acceptance and with a flag. Freedom begins when you say 'No.'
posted on January 13, 2006 05:49:05 PM newIt just bothers me that it seems like tolerance has become a mantra of the left but they are the least intolerant of all.
And what is wrong with being tolerant of other people, their beliefs and cultures?
You forget that this country was founded by immigrants - their different cultures and beliefs? I suppose you would rather every one bow down and support the beliefs of the Republican party, King Dubya and the Christian right?
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
---------------------------------- The duty of a patriot in this time and place is to ask questions, to demand answers, to understand where our nation is headed and why. If the answers you get do not suit you, or if they frighten you, or if they anger you, it is your duty as a patriot to dissent. Freedom does not begin with blind acceptance and with a flag. Freedom begins when you say 'No.'
posted on January 13, 2006 05:53:21 PM newWhat people do in their own homes does not bother me. Just don't preach it in the schools and on TV like it's a good thing.
Would that also include religion in public funded places?
Unless you've been appointed by God (and can prove that you were) to bring judgement down upon the homosexuals of the world, I think it's best to allow Him to do the judging.
Now only if the religious right could get that message, the world would be a happier place.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
---------------------------------- The duty of a patriot in this time and place is to ask questions, to demand answers, to understand where our nation is headed and why. If the answers you get do not suit you, or if they frighten you, or if they anger you, it is your duty as a patriot to dissent. Freedom does not begin with blind acceptance and with a flag. Freedom begins when you say 'No.'
posted on January 13, 2006 06:07:37 PM newIn this case, society demanded that gays breed, thereby propagating the gay gene. Those societal forces are no longer in place today.
I will disagree with that statement. The societal forces that you are referring to are still place today - namely society still places a stigma on gay people otherwise we would not be having this discussion. Because of this people will still hide their "true self" and enter into relationships of the opposite sex because that is what society as a whole wants.
If all gays did same-sex marriages, homosexuality would end within a few decades.
Is that a fact? Suppose all gays did the "same sex marriage thing" and those couples wanted to have kids, they could still have children the natural way. All it takes is one male and one female and they could produce a child.
That male could come from the "same sex marriage thing", the female could also come from another "same sex marriage thing" and boom they could have a baby together. The "gay gene" could still be passed on.
The "gay gene" could also be passed on between a person from the "straight marriage thing" and a person from the "same sex marriage thing".
If people want to have a child bad enough, they will find a way to do it. Whether it be the natural way or via artificial insemination, through a seragate or test tube.
You are also forgetting that some genes lie dormant and skip a generation.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
---------------------------------- The duty of a patriot in this time and place is to ask questions, to demand answers, to understand where our nation is headed and why. If the answers you get do not suit you, or if they frighten you, or if they anger you, it is your duty as a patriot to dissent. Freedom does not begin with blind acceptance and with a flag. Freedom begins when you say 'No.'
posted on January 13, 2006 06:27:23 PM new"Why are you so intolerant and close minded of those who think "gay" is a deviant lifestyle."
Bear, I'm not sure if I'm closed minded about it - it's closer to I don't understand why people would choose to hate/dislike... whatever you call it, instead of acceptance of another human being. People don't want to talk about their real feelings - they just say it's because the Bible says so, which I think is just a nice way to say you don't want to talk about it.
posted on January 13, 2006 06:36:49 PM newWhy are you so intolerant and close minded of those who think "gay" is a deviant lifestyle.
First you have to define what is deviant about "the lifestyle"? Is it the person himself/herself or what goes on in the bedroom that you find deviant?
If it is the later, what gives you the right to regulate what goes on behind close doors? Is it the fact that you have a problem with two people of the same sex having love or is it what you think those two people are doing?
If you think anal sex is deviant, I got a news flash for you, there are some straight coples that do it too.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
---------------------------------- The duty of a patriot in this time and place is to ask questions, to demand answers, to understand where our nation is headed and why. If the answers you get do not suit you, or if they frighten you, or if they anger you, it is your duty as a patriot to dissent. Freedom does not begin with blind acceptance and with a flag. Freedom begins when you say 'No.'
