posted on March 3, 2006 09:48:25 AM new
I listened to most of the tape that a student in a Geography class. Rantings (I would call them that anyway) of the teacher. Interesting, the only 'Geography' I heard was that North Carolina grows tobacco, and China should bomb NC for it. -well you'd have to listen to the teachers diatribe-
posted on March 3, 2006 10:39:03 AM new
That high school happens to be not far from here and we have been deluged with stories about this one. The interesting thing is that when they interview the students, they pretty much all acknowledge that their teacher is a bit radical but say that he is just presenting them with another view of things. They vknow going in to the class what the story is going to be, the teacher even gives them a handout that says that he is going to present them with some radical ideas, if they don't want that to be part of their experience, they are encouraged to transfer to a different class.
I'd say that the kids have a much better grip on reality than the parents and media members that are covering this. They all seem to think that these kids have no ability to think for themselves.
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Never ask what sort if computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If he's not, why embarrass him? - Tom Clancy
posted on March 3, 2006 10:47:57 AM new
"if they don't want that to be part of their experience, they are encouraged to transfer to a different class."
What's the likelihood of this High School having two Geography teachers? SHould these kids not learn Geography at all because the teacher has a big mouth?
Yes, I'm sure that some of the kids realize he's a nutcase. But not all students can think for themselves, and they're going to believe what this guy tells them. Then they'll rush out as soon as they're old enough and become Democrats.
Dr. Arcane, revelator of mystical secrets http://www.drarcane.com
Got questions about the secrets of the universe?
posted on March 3, 2006 11:11:26 AM new
Who studies geography? Basically geography is one of many classes that falls under the "Social Studies" umbrella of district grad requirements. Most students take history since it tends to be an easier and more interesting class (which is why there are so many more history than geography teachers).
This teacher has managed to make what is usually the last resort class into something that the kids want to take because they know it's not going to be bland book learning. It's a give and take of ideas. It's a class that makes kids think rather than a class that makes kids memorize.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
Never ask what sort if computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If he's not, why embarrass him? - Tom Clancy
posted on March 3, 2006 11:17:44 AM new
fenix I'm curious to know if the majority of his students agree with him? When you take a 14-15 year old, and they are given one view on a subject, what are they learning? I would say they are learning that one view they get everyday at school. Thats just IMHO only.
I had geography class back in the dark ages
I loved geography. Learning about different countries and how they live, I don't remember a lot of what their politics were like though. (this is 8th grade remember )
Oh, a student recorded the class, you can hear the whole thing, from the link I gave above (I think! )
posted on March 3, 2006 11:32:27 AM new
He's not a frehman teacher - he's a junior teacher so the only 14 year olds he is teaching are ones that have skipped two grades ; ).
Most of the students they have interviewed say that they agree with him on some counts, disagree with him on ohers but they all seem to agree that he is a good teacher. The interesting thing is that when they interview one of the students that do not support him, they sound like they are mimicing something that someone else has told them, and then you find out that they are not actually in one of his classes.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
Never ask what sort if computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If he's not, why embarrass him? - Tom Clancy
posted on March 3, 2006 11:44:49 AM new
I think the kid who recorded his tirade and posted it on the Internet must not have agreed with him or thought he was doing such a great job teaching.
"...but they all seem to agree that he is a good teacher."
Then that just shows they have no judgement, because they are so obviously wrong. A "GOOD Teacher" of Geography is supposed to teach geography, not espouse their political views on a bunch of kids who probably don't watch the news or hear other view points.
Dr. Arcane, revelator of mystical secrets http://www.drarcane.com
Got questions about the secrets of the universe?
posted on March 3, 2006 11:48:20 AM new
Actually - it was the students parent that got upset. The student has repeatedly stated that he never intended to cause problems for the teacher.
Also - this is not a normal geography class. It is an AP Human Geography class.
::Then that just shows they have no judgement, because they are so obviously wrong.::
How are they wrong in believing that a class that makes them think is a good class? I'm sorry but I would rather be in a class that opens up the mind to other view points and encourages you to think any day. Hell, I might have actually paid attention if someone had offered that type of curiculum when I was in school.
Why do we believe that kids are so incapable of thinking for themselves.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
Never ask what sort if computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If he's not, why embarrass him? - Tom Clancy
[ edited by fenix03 on Mar 3, 2006 11:52 AM ]
posted on March 3, 2006 12:11:06 PM new
I would have probably listened to him also back then, and those would most likely end up being my politics as well.
As you said, the class is not a bland book type class.
Instead its a teacher who talks to his students and tells them what is going on in the world, and in our own country.
If that was one of my first exposure to foriegn and domestic politics, I would be begging my parents to move to Canada or France! I would not like the US much at all.
I personally knew 2 16 year olds. One didn't care what went on in class, the other did. She didn't have this kind of teacher, but came home and told me things that she did learned in class, some things I didn't know!
No, they don't have quite a mind of their own at that age, or rather, MOST don't.
These kids minds are like sponges. And right now they are soaking it all up. Does what he teach true? Thats a loaded question on the RT But what about the 'other side' to all he says???
posted on March 3, 2006 12:15:56 PM new
"Actually - it was the students parent that got upset. The student has repeatedly stated that he never intended to cause problems for the teacher."
Bull. If the student hadn't wanted to cause problems, then why did he take his recorder to class and tape this rant? The PARENTS didn't record this teacher, the student did. He may be trying to cut his potential losses and reduce the damage, but he knew what he was doing.
"Also - this is not a normal geography class. It is an AP Human Geography class."
So?
Dr. Arcane, revelator of mystical secrets http://www.drarcane.com
Got questions about the secrets of the universe?
posted on March 3, 2006 12:23:36 PM newActually - it was the students parent that got upset. The student has repeatedly stated that he never intended to cause problems for the teacher.
Thats not what the student said last night when interviewed on Hannity and Colmes. He said that he hoped the teacher wouldn't lose his job as that was not his intention but that the teacher needed to be reprimanded. The student went on to say that 80% of class time was typically spent listening to the teachers political ideolgy and about 20% touched on geography.
posted on March 3, 2006 12:27:13 PM new
::Bull. If the student hadn't wanted to cause problems, then why did he take his recorder to class and tape this rant?::
He taped all of his class lectures. Said he did he it all the time. It's not exactly unheard of. Are you tellling me that no one in all of those courses you are taking tapes the lectures?
As for your "so? remark - I am pointing out that this is not a class where they just learn the ocation of countries on the map. They talk about the politics and cultures of various geographical areas.
this is a public school where students are going to be presented with a variety of different ideas. It's actually considered on of the best in the state. Maybe if parents want their students to be presented with only the ideas that they personally approve of, they should consider private education.
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Never ask what sort if computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If he's not, why embarrass him? - Tom Clancy
[ edited by fenix03 on Mar 3, 2006 12:27 PM ]
posted on March 3, 2006 12:29:06 PM new
Well as far as Geography goes, they know where
South America, Iraq, North Carolina and the United States is.....
As for which one is evil (according to this teacher) well, I won't go there.........
posted on March 3, 2006 12:31:21 PM new
Near - here you go - it's dry but you get the idea....
The purpose of the AP course in Human Geography is to introduce students to the systematic study of patterns and processes that have shaped human understanding, use, and alteration of Earth's surface. Students employ spatial concepts and landscape analysis to examine human social organization and its environmental consequences. They also learn about the methods and tools geographers use in their science and practice.
The particular topics studied in an AP Human Geography course should be judged in light of the following five college-level goals that build on the National Geography Standards developed in 1994. On successful completion of the course, the student should be able to:
* Use and think about maps and spatial data
* Understand and interpret the implications of associations among phenomena in places
* Recognize and interpret at different scales the relationships among patterns and processes
* Define regions and evaluate the regionalization process
* Characterize and analyze changing interconnections among places
Use and Think About Maps and Spatial Data
Geography is fundamentally concerned with the ways in which patterns on Earth's surface reflect and influence physical and human processes. As such, maps and spatial data are fundamental to the discipline, and learning to use and think about them is critical to geographical literacy. The goal is achieved when students learn to use maps and spatial data to pose and solve problems, and when they learn to think critically about what is revealed and what is hidden in different maps and spatial arrays.
Understand and Interpret Implications of Associations Among Phenomena in Places
Geography looks at the world from a spatial perspective -- seeking to understand the changing spatial organization and material character of Earth's surface. One of the critical advantages of a spatial perspective is the attention it focuses on how phenomena are related to one another in particular places. Students should thus learn not just to recognize and interpret patterns, but to assess the nature and significance of the relationships among phenomena that occur in the same place and to understand how tastes and values, political regulations, and economic constraints work together to create particular types of cultural landscapes.
Recognize and Interpret at Different Scales Relationships Among Patterns and Processes
Geographical analysis requires a sensitivity to scale -- not just as a spatial category but as a framework for understanding how events and processes at different scales influence one another. Thus, students should understand that the phenomena they are studying at one scale (e.g., local) may well be influenced by developments at other scales (e.g., regional, national, or global). They should then look at processes operating at multiple scales when seeking explanations of geographic patterns and arrangements.
Define Regions and Evaluate the Regionalization Process
Geography is concerned not simply with describing patterns, but with analyzing how they came about and what they mean. Students should see regions as objects of analysis and exploration and move beyond simply locating and describing regions to considering how and why they come into being -- and what they reveal about the changing character of the world in which we live.
Characterize and Analyze Changing Interconnections Among Places
At the heart of a geographical perspective is a concern with the ways in which events and processes operating in one place can influence those operating at other places. Thus, students should view places and patterns not in isolation, but in terms of their spatial and functional relationship with other places and patterns. Moreover, they should strive to be aware that those relationships are constantly changing, and they should understand how and why change occurs.
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Never ask what sort if computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If he's not, why embarrass him? - Tom Clancy
posted on March 3, 2006 12:31:26 PM new
fenix, if this is the teaching they get, why should they think it is wrong? Meaning they can't really personally decide this isn't right for them.
And who wants to go to a private school? They suck, I went to one for too many years
posted on March 3, 2006 12:37:30 PM new
Near - do you really think that a student in an AP class is unable to decide what they agree with and what they don't?
As for private school - I think it depends on the school. Academeically, the only classes that interested me at mine were ones where topics were always open for debate and discussion. The dry standard teaching classes bored me to tears, but then when I returned to public school I didn't find that much was different other than that I was being bored by the same things as a senior there that I was bored by as a soph in my old school.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
Never ask what sort if computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If he's not, why embarrass him? - Tom Clancy
posted on March 3, 2006 12:40:00 PM new
He presented a radical idea - why is that a bad thing? If he had made the exact same lecture, talking about the ethnocentric dynamics of bushs speech and his politics but left out the word Hitler, would it have been more acceptable?
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
Never ask what sort if computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If he's not, why embarrass him? - Tom Clancy
posted on March 3, 2006 12:46:49 PM new
Yes I would say most kids are not sure what to believe, until they are introduced to teachings in high school, but for a lot of kids, its usually college or some other medium
Would it be better if he left out the Hitler part? uh, yeah! it probably would
And I would like someone to define what they think (or believe) ethnocentric is.
posted on March 3, 2006 01:00:19 PM new
OK , but an AP class is an advanced placement class. these are not just the random run of the mills kids, they tend to think a little more and at a different level than the average student, or at least they are supposed to. I think it's amazing that we finally find a teacher that does not dumb down his teachings and makes students think and parents are all of him because apparently they don't want their kids thinking independently of them.
As for what I think of when I hear the Bush being protrayed as ethnocentiric... He seems to have this belief that the entire world should have the same ideals and the same goals as himself. Good traditional WASPy ideals of god and family, and it should be the traditional christian idea of both. I think he plays a bit more lip service to tolerence than this teacher acknowledges but in the end, his actions tend to contridict his words.
the Hitler thing is a real hot button word. Lots of negativity attached there but if you strip away the actions of Hitler and look at the beliefs, that all should have the same beliefs and that those beliefs should be his and that countries that don't hold to the same standard should be shown the light, even if they have to be dragged kicking and screaming toward it is not all that different from what is happening right now.
How many times has someone on this very board suggested carpet bombing the arab penninsula because they are all arabs and even if they are not all terrorists, it 's just a matter of time before they become one?
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
Never ask what sort if computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If he's not, why embarrass him? - Tom Clancy
[ edited by fenix03 on Mar 3, 2006 01:01 PM ]
posted on March 3, 2006 08:00:04 PM new
I applaud the teacher for hoping to get kids to actually think. On the other hand, as a professional educator, I can tell you, he's toast. He could have found much more subtle and ultimately successful ways to do that. He could have gone for years encouraging kids to question the dominant paradigm without shooting his mouth off and pissing tiny minded people off. The purpose of high school social science courses like history and geography is not, sadly, to encourage kids to think for themselves. The purpose, the only purpose of these courses is to build good citizens. Citizens who are devoted to the historical status quo. Citizens who specifically do not think for themselves.
Not pretty, but that's how it is.
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posted on March 3, 2006 09:22:57 PM new
District officials met with his students and other teachers in the department today and it actually sounds like this is going to go in favor of the teacher. Will still be a couple weeks (probably just long enough for the media furor to die down) before final judgement is passed. In the meantime, the teacher is on paid leave and the student whose father started all of this is not going to be returning to the school.
Too bad the tape of that meeting will never make it to the national news. As one of the anchors stated after it showed here... that was probably the most civil and reasonable discussion of the issue that has taken place all week. Those are some smart, well spoken kids.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
Never ask what sort if computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If he's not, why embarrass him? - Tom Clancy
posted on March 3, 2006 10:25:24 PM new
profe, of course he is getting them to think. He is getting them to think like him
Getting kids to see all sides is great, but how do you do that? Most teachers are liberal.
My sister in law is going to college here, she graduated with a degree in Science and was an engineer in China, but that degree means squat here. So she goes to her Literature class. (she is taking every course there is! ) First day. The woman who is the teacher introduces herself, but also 'introduces' her lifestyle. LOL, my SIL asked if all teachers in the US do this. I said, don't know anymore.. She said, my teacher said, 'my name is xxxx. And I am a lesbian.' AND THEN WENT ON TO SAY HOW GAY AND LESBIANS SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO MARRY,
Oh some guy 'heckled' her and she kicked him out.
I ask ya, WTF does ones sexual orientation have to do with American Literature?
posted on March 3, 2006 11:16:33 PM newI ask ya, WTF does ones sexual orientation have to do with American Literature?
Nothing, it's also not a reason to make the blanket statement that most teachers are liberals. You can't prove that anymore than I can prove that most Ebay sellers are sh!tty photographers.
And even If most teachers are liberals, so what? It isn't against any law that I know of to be a liberal, although there are quite a few here who would make it so if they could. This country elected a conservative president, or at least one who calls himself conservative, (He isn't, in my opinion, but that's for another thread.) and if those who call themselves conservatives here are to be believed, there will be a landslide of conservatives elected in the next elections, so where's the problem?? Maybe all those liberal teachers have taught their kids to think for themselves after all.
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posted on March 3, 2006 11:53:15 PM new
Sorry, I guess I made a blanket statement on teachers being liberal. I'm sure one or two aren't
But still, the question is, how do you get kids to see 'both sides'. I know some will say this teacher is right, and there is no other 'side' but I do think there is another view on some things he said. I listened to the tape that was recorded. So these kids leave the class believing that the US and Israel are the evil ones. I don't think they are.
And I don't think he should be fired. I really do not. He does make kids think, as you say. The problem with it, is they think just like him. Is this bad? No, not necessarily. But they should be independent thinkers, and I don't believe they are going to be, if they continue to listen to the same opinions from this teacher. So how do you get children to become independent thinkers?
posted on March 4, 2006 06:13:18 AM new
NearTheSea,
Is right most teachers are liberals because they study,stay informed plus they are able to think independently and progressively.
Most important, progressives aren't part of a herd. They don't have to follow their leader while the leader jumps off a cliff.
BY SUMMER AS MANY AS 15 LAWMAKERS WILL BE CHARGED WITH TAKING BRIBES AND OTHER HIGH CRIMES. MOST WILL BE REPUBLICANS AND JOIN THE REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS ALREADY CHARGED OR CONVICTED OF MONEY CRIMES.
THESE CROOKS SAY, PRAISE THE LORD LOUDLY but pass the bribe money quietly!!!!!!
posted on March 4, 2006 06:35:31 AM new But they should be independent thinkers, and I don't believe they are going to be..
You're right about that, but it isn't the result of a few nuts like the one you posted. It's the result of a school system that is designed from it's very core to create good citizens; rank and file "productive members of society" , not independent thinkers. I don't believe all the nut-job teachers and professors in the country spewing their own goofy politics make the slightest difference against a system that is set up to encourage mediocrity and sameness.
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"But what I'm trying to get you to do is to think about these issues more in depth and not to just take things from the surface."
If this was the teachers goal, I think that he made a mistake when he apparently reached the conclusion for the students. They were then left to "take things from the surface"...his opinion.
After gathering the facts, they should have been left to come to their own comparative analysis between Bush and Hitler. And in that case, the better thinkers in the group would have agreed with the teacher's opinion.
