posted on March 3, 2006 11:39:31 AMWhy does god hate children so much?
Ex.12:30
God murders the Egyptian firstborn children.
Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21
Children who are disobedient, or who curse or strike their parents are to be killed.
Dt.20:16, Jos.10:40
God ordered the Israelites to kill all of the children in the cities that they invaded.
1 Sam.15:2-3
God orders Saul to kill all of the Amalekite children.
2 Sam.12:15, 18
To punish David for having Uriah killed, God kills David's newborn son.
2 Kg.2:23-24
God sends bears to kill 42 little boys for making fun of Elisha's bald head.
Jer.13:13-14
God will make everyone drunk and then "dash the fathers and the sons together." He vows to "not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them."
Jer.19:9
God will make parents eat their own children, and friends eat each other.
Ps.135:8, 136:10
God is praised for slaughtering little babies.
Ps.137:9
Happiness is smashing your little children against rocks.
Ezek.5:10
God will cause fathers to eat their sons and sons to eat their fathers.
Hos.9:16
God assures Hosea that he will "slay even the beloved fruit of the womb."
Hos.13:16
God promises to dash to pieces the infants of Samaria and "their women with child shall be ripped up."
Zech.13:3
A prophet must be killed by his own parents by "thrusting him through when he prophesieth."
Just curious, because Christians always act like they are so compassionate.
He also supports rape...
Num. 31:17-18
God commands that all the young virgin girls be taken for the soldiers to enjoy.
Why don't I support Christianity again? Give me a minute to think...
posted on March 3, 2006 11:49:06 AM
Somehow I'm guessing you didn't actually look all those up yourself, and that you just copied from some kind of "hate site".
Not ONE of those sayings is from the Christian Bible (New Testament). Every single one of those is from the Jewish Bible (Old Testament). Christians simply see the Old Testament as historical information, not as law. Jews see the OT as LAW, and don't believe the NT.
So your thread title should actually read "Jews Are Evil... They support killing babies." Which clearly falls under the heading of anti-semitic hate speech.
So, is this quite as funny now?
Dr. Arcane, revelator of mystical secrets
http://www.drarcane.com
Got questions about the secrets of the universe?
[ edited by DrArcane on Mar 3, 2006 11:50 AM ]
posted on March 3, 2006 01:17:39 PM
"Who gets to pick which writings are valid?"
I think that was a guy named Jesus.
There was a new covenant ( i.e. "New Testament" ) that replaced the old laws with Jesus's laws.
The primacy of the New Testament over the Old Testament and the replacement of the Jewish laws are the primary differences between Christianity and Judaism.
Jews still follow the laws sent through Moses. The dietary laws, sabbath laws, certain holidays, technically even sacrifices, although without the Temple, they cannot perform them anymore. The Christians don't do any of these things- they have been made obsolete by Jesus.
Although Christians do still read the O.T. and use the stories as background information, the sayings of Jesus ALWAYS overrule things in the O.T.
Here are some quotes. Note, "The Law", as mentioned here is the Law of the Jews, as given to Moses. This was explained so dramatically by the original poster.
Matt 7:12
So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
Matt 5:20
For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matt 7:28-8:1
When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed at his teaching, because he taught as one who had authority, and not as their teachers of the law.
Heb 7:22
Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.
Gal 3:10-18
All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith." The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them." Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree." He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.
Brothers, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ. What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise. "
Dr. Arcane, revelator of mystical secrets
http://www.drarcane.com
Got questions about the secrets of the universe?
[ edited by DrArcane on Mar 3, 2006 01:19 PM ]
[ edited by DrArcane on Mar 3, 2006 01:26 PM ]
posted on March 3, 2006 01:28:36 PM
"Christians still use those directives as "background information"? Wow...thats scary."
Yeah, it's called "History." I hadn't realized that knowledge of history was considered a scary thing before.
Dr. Arcane, revelator of mystical secrets
http://www.drarcane.com
Got questions about the secrets of the universe?
[ edited by DrArcane on Mar 3, 2006 01:30 PM ]
posted on March 3, 2006 01:35:23 PM
When you know, as I know how the people of the south in particular rely on that history as truth today, it is in fact scary.
posted on March 3, 2006 06:55:26 PM
"Why does god hate children so much?"
he probably feels the same as I do...kids suck.
"I think that was a guy named Jesus."
I knew a few Puerto Ricans with that name.I invited them over to my pool to walk across the water.They looked at me like I was wacked out....being the fact that I kept mis-pronouncing their name didnt go over too well either.
posted on March 3, 2006 07:31:34 PM
I ran into a stranger as he passed by,
"Oh excuse me please" was my reply.
He said, "Please excuse me too;
I wasn't watching for you."
We were very polite, this stranger and I.
We went on our way and we said goodbye.
But at home a different story is told,
How we treat our loved ones, young and old.
Later that day, cooking the evening meal,
My son stood beside me very still.
When I turned, I nearly knocked him down.
"Move out of the way," I said with a frown.
He walked away, his little heart broken.
I didn't realize how harshly I'd spoken.
While I lay awake in bed,
God's still small voice came to me and said,
"While dealing with a stranger,
common courtesy you use,
but the family you love, you seem to abuse.
Go and look on the kitchen floor,
You'll find some flowers there by the door.
Those are the flowers he brought for you.
He picked them himself: pink, yellow and blue.
He stood very quietly not to spoil the surprise,
you never saw the tears that filled his little eyes."
By this time, I felt very small,
And now my tears began to fall.
I quietly went and knelt by his bed;
"Wake up, little one, wake up," I said.
"Are these the flowers you picked for me?"
He smiled, "I found 'em, out by the tree.
I picked 'em because they're pretty like you.
I knew you'd like 'em, especially the blue."
I said, "Son, I'm very sorry for the way I acted today;
I shouldn't have yelled at you that way."
He said, "Oh, Mom, that's okay.
I love you anyway."
I said, "Son, I love you too,
and I do like the flowers, especially the blue."
FAMILY
Are you aware that if we died tomorrow, the company
that we are working for could easily replace us in
a matter of days.
But the family we left behind will feel the loss
for the rest of their lives.
And come to think of it, we pour ourselves more
into work than into our own family,
an unwise investment indeed,
don't you think?
So what is behind the story?
Do you know what the word FAMILY means?
FAMILY = (F)ATHER (A)ND (M)OTHER (I) (L)OVE (Y)OU
posted on March 3, 2006 08:38:05 PM
Arcane, nice try, but you'll find the OT is quoted as the word of god with just as much frequency in christian churches as is th NT. Relegating it as "history" and attempting to cast it as somehow not part of your "Christian Bible" is just plain silly. if it's not, how come the christian "Holy Bible", regardless of it's version, includes the Old Testament, and doesn't come with some sort of a "Please read the first half as information only and not actually the word of god, it's only in there so you'll know about the culture Jesus came from" disclaimer?
If your theory holds water, I guess we can toss out the 10 commandments too, as just "history", and not part of the new covenant.
____________________________________________
posted on March 3, 2006 09:23:37 PM
OK, Profe, if I'm wrong, then you tell ME why Christians don't go around killing children, sacrificing goats and stoning prostitutes and homosexuals? Because it's the Law? Then why didn't people do these things back in the days of, say, Constantine when Christianity wrote the Laws?
Leaving the violent parts of Jews law out of it, then tell me, why do Christians eat pigs and seafood? Why do Christians carry money to church on Sunday while Jews won't?
If it's not the difference in holy books, then what exactly *IS* the difference between Christians and Jews? It's exactly what I said it is. One group follows the law of Moses, the other group follows the law of Jesus.
This thread is just so incredibly dense with obvious troll-posts, I can't believe I'm even TRYING with this one.
Dr. Arcane, revelator of mystical secrets http://www.drarcane.com
Got questions about the secrets of the universe?
posted on March 3, 2006 09:25:25 PM
"doesn't come with some sort of a "Please read the first half as information only and not actually the word of god, it's only in there so you'll know about the culture Jesus came from" disclaimer?"
Actually, I have one here that DOES say basically that.
Dr. Arcane, revelator of mystical secrets http://www.drarcane.com
Got questions about the secrets of the universe?
posted on March 3, 2006 10:54:31 PM
The reason Christians don't follow all of the rules is because they don't want to. It's not just Christians, but people of all religions that follow only the parts they want to follow.
Matthew 5:18 (New Testament, right?) says not one jot or tittle should be changed from the old law.
There are 4 types of laws in the Old Testament: Criminal, Civil, Dietary and Sacrificial, and they are spelled out in different sections of the Pentateuch and the punishments for violation of these is also covered as well.
The only thing Jesus changed was the sacrificial law, because he served as the ultimate final sacrifice. It could be argued that he changed the dietary law, because he spoke on the fact that what goes in comes out all the same. However, he NEVER changed any of the civil or criminal laws from the Old Testament.
Christians also believe that Jesus is God is The Holy Spirit. You can't decide to differentiate them when it suits you, because if you do, then you are not a Christian.
posted on March 3, 2006 11:23:55 PMOK, Profe, if I'm wrong, then you tell ME why Christians don't go around killing children, sacrificing goats and stoning prostitutes and homosexuals? Because it's the Law?
Your argument is absurd. Jews don't do that stuff either. There is not now nor has there ever been any sort of wholesale disregard of the Old Testament on the part of mainstream christians. It just isn't so.
____________________________________________
posted on March 5, 2006 08:33:38 AM
The only time Christians try to distance themselves from the Old Testament, is when they find out what it actually says - since so few of them actually read the book they claim to adhere to. Then when they are challenged on the contents they change the subject and clam up, because the entire religion is founded on what would be considered pure evil if called by any other name.
posted on March 5, 2006 12:00:09 PM
Imo- Christians are followers of Christ's teachings. I personally believe Christ was probably the son of God in the way we are all children of God, but as of now, I do not know. I blame alot of what is in our bible on the early Catholic church. Isn't that who actually wrote the bible from the original "texts", filled in the blanks and put their "spin" on it?
Also, you must take into consideration the eras of time you are talking about- three or four thousand years ago. Most of what you are condemning were commonplace occurences in all tribes, "religions" and countries, in those times. The ancient native peoples of North America acted in the same ways.
posted on March 5, 2006 12:35:46 PM
"I blame alot of what is in our bible on the early Catholic church. Isn't that who actually wrote the bible from the original "texts""
The Catholics (as we know them today) didn't write the Bible. Let's leave out the Old Testament, and just focusing on the New Testament. Most scholars agree that the four gospels were written between 70-100 C.E. and the letters attributed to "Paul" (Not all of them were actually written by him) came a little earlier, around 60-70 C.E. Revelation and a couple of the other NT books came between 90-110 C.E.
However, what the church doesn't like to tell you are that there were HUNDREDS of gospels and other books that could have gone into the Bible. For example, I'm currently writing a paper on the Gospel of Thomas, and it clearly came from the same sources and Luke & Matthew.
There were many books written, and many survive until today. Wanna read a fun one? Try the Infancy Gospel of Thomas (Do a Google). This short little book is probably every bit as old as the regular gospels, but once you read it, you'll see very quickly why the church didn't want it in the Bible. (Jesus kills a few children and paralyzes his teacher).
Around 350 CE, various church fathers, led by Archbishop Athanasius of Alexandria came up with a list of books they considered "canon" or official. The canon wasn't made official until the days of Constantine, but it was pretty much de facto in even the time of Irenaeus, around 180 CE. Athanasius ordered the destruction of heretical books, and many were lost forever. A few, such as those dug up in 1945 in Nag Hammadi, have survived until today.
Bottom line, the church didn't "write" the books of the Bible, but they did select which books went into it.
If you want to learn more about this, pick up the book "The Complete Gospels" edited by Robert J. Miller. It's a really good book and lists several dozen accounts of Jesus in gospels.
"...you are catching on especially with the religious threads and the diatribes from profe and others."
It was obvious from the thread title and first post, but you never know when there are some open minded lurkers reading.
Picking Biblical verses in defense of my argument has never been my strong point, cause I don't pay that much attention to the Bible myself. It's a great book of Mythology and history in my opinion. the trick is picking out the history from the mythology
But I don't for a minute think Christians are bad people- quite the opposite. It's pretty obvious from the preceding posts where the HATE resides.
Dr. Arcane, revelator of mystical secrets
http://www.drarcane.com
Got questions about the secrets of the universe?
[ edited by DrArcane on Mar 5, 2006 12:40 PM ]
posted on March 5, 2006 02:56:28 PMtwig125silver...Also, you must take into consideration the eras of time you are talking about- three or four thousand years ago. Most of what you are condemning were commonplace occurences in all tribes, "religions" and countries, in those times. The ancient native peoples of North America acted in the same ways.
That is the point - if god is supposed to be all knowing, then why would he support, and even order these things if they are wrong? Unless you're saying god has changed with the times and matured as he has gotten older.
The church did not write the books in the bible, they just handpicked the ones that followed the theme they wanted to push 1700 years ago. The problem is that Christians today follow this handpicked, censored collection of racist, mysoginistic, violent, hate filled book of lies and mythology and try to cram it down peoples throats as if it is the word of god.
That is the problem, and I haven't seen anybody refute that yet.
posted on March 5, 2006 08:10:21 PM newthe diatribes from profe and others
What diatribes Ron? Link to one of mine if you would please. Betcha can't...Go on. I dare you.
____________________________________________
[ edited by profe51 on Mar 5, 2006 08:10 PM ]
posted on March 5, 2006 09:33:28 PM new
My opinion profe dosen't require proof and I certainly wouldn't bother with someone like you.
Most of your posts have been nothing but attacks, maybe not boisterous but attacks none the less. Your opinion in this thread is nothing more than an attack on Dr. Arcane.
posted on March 6, 2006 04:23:01 AM newMy opinion profe dosen't require proof and I certainly wouldn't bother with someone like you.
Thought so. I didn't "attack" Dr. Arcane. I stated my opinions regarding his posts and the original post. I contributed to the thread in other words.
Participating in the discussion....must be your definition of "diatribes". I'm pretty sure nobody'll ever accuse you of that.
____________________________________________
posted on March 6, 2006 05:55:35 AM new
I disagree with drarcane also. His level of expertise as a source is that of a student who, by calling himself "DrArcane" has conferred upon himself a doctoral degree while sporting the avatar of a magician.
posted on March 6, 2006 09:29:13 AM new
"His level of expertise as a source is that of a student who, by calling himself "DrArcane" has conferred upon himself a doctoral degree while sporting the avatar of a magician."
True on all counts.
So does that make you or profe any more qualified to answer these questions than me? I'll admit my Bible knowledge isn't as good at it could be, but then I'm not studying Christianity from a doctrinal point of view. Infact I haven't had a Christianity-related class since before Xmas.
Yes, I'm still three months away from my bachelor's degree. You know what? I still have more education than a huge percentage of protestant preachers. I didn't know it myself until recently, but VERY FEW protestant preachers actually attend a seminary. Most of those who do attend, do so AFTER becoming ordained. Most have nothing more than a High School education. This probably explains a lot of the ignorance within the church.
Besides, not only am I legally ordained (just like Colin, BTW), but in fact DO have both a legal DD (Doctor of Divinity) aswell as a PhD (If Colin has one of these, he's never said so). Granted, it's not going to get me a teaching job, but it is in fact legal.
Besides, it's only a message board. I could call myself "GodInPerson" if I wanted to. It's not like I introduce myself as "Doctor Arcane" to people on the street.
What's the big deal about "sporting the avatar of a magian?" Are you, an atheist OFFENDED by that? Besides, my Doctor Strange avatar not only looks cool, it actuall DOES resemble me somewhat.
Dr. Arcane, revelator of mystical secrets
http://www.drarcane.com
Got questions about the secrets of the universe?
[ edited by DrArcane on Mar 6, 2006 09:29 AM ]
[ edited by DrArcane on Mar 6, 2006 09:39 AM ]
posted on March 6, 2006 09:44:10 AM new
When you call yourself Dr. and speak with such authority on topics that you obviously know so little about it's helpful to let others know that you are just an undergraduate student.
Before your edit, You considered why you should bother explaining yourself to me and added, "After all, you're just an atheist."
Your condescending attitude toward atheists only serves to illustrate your need for further education in my opinion.
posted on March 6, 2006 09:53:45 AM new
I'm not seeing anyone else here who knows the first thing about the subject. I'm not seeing profe come up with any facts, just his opinions on what he thinks Christians and Jews are like.
I mean he's arguing that the Christians follow the Old Testament and then goes on to say MY argument is "absurd."??? What the heck does he think the New Testament is FOR? It's a freaking REPLACEMENT. Old covenant, NEW covenant. It's not hard to understand if you WANT to understand.
These facts are just too basic to argue. You aren't agreeing with my facts because you don't WANT TO, not because I'm wrong. Naturally, helen, you then go for the personal attacks, because that's just your way. Maybe I should throw in a few LOLs just to irritate you further.
Dr. Arcane, revelator of mystical secrets http://www.drarcane.com
Got questions about the secrets of the universe?
[ edited by profe51 on Mar 5, 2006 08:10 PM ]