Linda_K
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posted on June 4, 2007 04:08:06 PM new
I agree with those who believes this is being put in place as a way to SAVE their gov. from paying for all those surgeries for 500,000 citizens.
tsk tsk tsk
Yep.....put the gov. in control of your health care and you may just live to do something ELSE they don't want you to do....and they'll threaten to take away your medical care, or put you at the back of the line...to PUNISH you.
LOL Punish you for being SO STUPID to allow the gov to have control over YOUR health care to begin with.
Wonder what OTHER ways their gov. will think up so they can cut back their funding to those who thought they'd ALWAYS be taken care of my their nanny gov. LOL
If they think you're eating to rich a diet and may get gout....etc...etc....etc. they can then just take your medical care away from you or punish you in this same manner.
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Smokers told to quit or surgery will be refused
By DAN NEWLING -
Last updated at 16:02pm on 4th June 2007
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=459574&in_page_id=1770
Smokers are to be denied operations on the NHS unless they give up cigarettes for at least four weeks beforehand
Doctors will police the rule by ordering patients to take a blood test to prove they have not been smoking.
The ruling, authorised by Health Secretary Patricia Hewitt, comes after medical research conclusively showed smokers take longer to recover from surgery.
It is thought that 500,000 smokers a year will be affected.
However patients' groups argue that the move is about the NHS saving money rather than improving patient care.
They claim that health trusts do not want to operate on smokers because they stay in hospital longer, blocking beds and costing more to treat.
The ruling applies to routine operations such as hip replacements and heart surgery for conditions that are not immediately life-threatening.
If smokers refuse to give up, they are still likely to be treated but may have to wait longer.
Leicester City Primary Care Trust will become the first health authority to introduce the "quit or wait" rule this summer. Other health trusts are consulting on the idea.
Rod Moore, the trust's assistant director of public health, said: "If people give up smoking prior to planned operations it will improve their recovery. It would reduce heart and lung complications and wounds would heal faster.
"Our purpose is not to deny patients access to operations but to see if the outcomes can be improved."
Patricia Hewitt has described the ruling as "a perfectly legitimate clinical decision". Yesterday her spokesman explained: "Trusts commission surgery services based on their assessment of the needs of their local population and availability of service capacity.
What about drinkers, drug takers, people who eat too much and people who never exercise?
Online forum - The provision and availability of a particular surgical intervention should be dependent on the clinical needs of the individual patient."
• The European Commission is considering a proposal to extend the forthcoming ban on smoking in enclosed public places to cover doorways.
Officials have been studying the Canadian province of Quebec, where smoking is banned within nine metres of the doorway into any healthcare-related building, school or social services building.
The experiment is thought to have shown positive health benefits.
A spokesman for the Department of Health said the Health Act 2006, which covers the July 1 ban, contains reserve powers to extend the law to outside areas. Sports stadia, bus shelters and train platforms are already classed as enclosed public spaces under the Act and it would not have to go back to Parliament to be extended to doorways.
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YES, socialized medicine will just be SO great.....IF you have absolutely NO bad habits.....wonder if that will eventually include all those who have promiscuous sex and get hiv/aids. Will they be put to the back of the list for THEIR much more dangerous behavior???? sure...
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"While the democratic party complains about everything THIS President does to protect our Nation": "What would a Democrat president have done at that point?"
"Apparently, the answer is: Sit back and wait for the next terrorist attack." 
Ann Coulter
[ edited by Linda_K on Jun 4, 2007 04:11 PM ]
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roadsmith
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posted on June 5, 2007 09:23:02 PM new
Linda, it's disgusting to me that people abuse their bodies and then expect taxpayers to pay for their ailments. Really. And I know I sound unsympathetic here, but there are some substances we're capable of ingesting that everyone knows aren't healthy. And still they do it.
_____________________
There is more to life than increasing its speed. --Mahatma Gandhi
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cblev65252
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posted on June 6, 2007 05:32:59 AM new
Okay, I'll chime in here. I quit smoking 15 months ago. It's true that smokers take longer to heal! I know from experience. Colds alone used to send me to bed. I've only had one cold since I quit smoking. It was very mild and lasted only three days. As a smoker, I could expect a cold to last 7 to 10 days and 80% of the time the cold would turn into Bronchitis! I don't disagree with what this hospital is doing. From experience I know that a smoker doesn't see how much better things are until they quit. I was one of the holdouts. I kept saying how much I enjoyed smoking, but the truth was, I knew quitting would be hard and I just didn't want to do it. It was easier to continue smoking.
There is a HUGE difference between eating foods that are too rich and purposely inhaling poison all day.
Cheryl
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Linda_K
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posted on June 6, 2007 06:21:03 AM new
cheryl - Congratulations on the 15 months. That's a HUGE accomplishment.  Good going!!!
I'm glad to read you don't believe the gov. should be going to such drastic lenghts to force citizens to obey Big Brother gov.
---------------------
It's past socialist control of the masses, imo. And no matter what ones 'vice' is....no matter how some believe other people shouldn't do certain things because they're not good for us....to lay down and allow any gov. to dictate to us what they will and won't allow without 'punishing' their population is beyond my ability to understand.
Guess some don't mind Big Brother getting in their 'bedrooms' after all. tsk tsk tsk
Or maybe they believe this is the gov. business' and would also be willing give up all personal life choices to the gov because they need a parentnanny to control their actions so they don't hurt themselves.
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profe51
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posted on June 6, 2007 07:52:56 AM new
The illiteracy level of our children are apalling.
The President. Washington D.C., Jan. 23, 2004
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mingotree
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posted on June 6, 2007 08:35:10 AM new
"""And no matter what ones 'vice' is....no matter how some believe other people shouldn't do certain things because they're not good for us....to lay down and allow any gov. to dictate to us what they will and won't allow without 'punishing' their population is beyond my ability to understand."""
PRICELESS!!!
Exactly what the bushit administration has been doing......
Think of gay marriage...think of a woman's right to choose....think of all those slaughtered and maimed in Iraq...think of the cameras, microphones recording our every word, chips in the products we buy...
think of all the rights and liberties we've lost due to the "Patriot" Act, signing statements...
""Or maybe they believe this is the gov. business' and would also be willing give up all personal life choices to the gov because they need a parentnanny to control their actions so they don't hurt themselves. ""
Or maybe they believed the scare tactics of ...you better fall in line and do as big brother says or the terrorists will get you!
BUSH made this government our "nanny"....directing our every move ....
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kiara
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posted on June 6, 2007 09:03:16 AM new
Statement:
I don't disagree with what this hospital is doing.
Response:
I'm glad to read you don't believe the gov. should be going to such drastic lenghts to force citizens to obey Big Brother gov.
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Helenjw
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posted on June 6, 2007 09:22:30 AM new
Yes, Kiara, that one's a head spinner.
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kiara
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posted on June 6, 2007 09:46:56 AM new
Helen, it explains lots.
Statement:
I don't disagree that Saddam was an evil and cruel man.
Response:
Everyone that reads here now knows you are a Saddam supporter.
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cblev65252
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posted on June 6, 2007 10:02:09 AM new
Let me clarify - I wasn't making a political statement here of any kind. Not in support of or against any government measures. I simply stated that I do believe that smokers take longer to heal and that I believe the hospital is right in thinking that! As for the government dictating who should be forced to the back of the line. . .I have long ago decided not to take any political stance on this board.
Cheryl
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cblev65252
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posted on June 6, 2007 10:04:38 AM new
I will make just this one statement: I feel the same way about Bush today as I did the day he was elected and the day he was re-elected.
Cheryl
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Helenjw
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posted on June 6, 2007 10:18:57 AM new
Kiara, that's typical...a self serving translation with heedless disregard for the truth.
Hi Cheryl! I hope that your nephew is responding well to the leukemia treatment.
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kiara
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posted on June 6, 2007 10:23:02 AM new
I understand your point, Cheryl.
At the moment I know of someone in trouble and part of the cause is smoking. Fortunately the hospital is giving him the care he needs and he was admitted immediately and I'm thankful for that because I would hate to see him suffer by having to wait. For those that smoke, I understand that it's more difficult for some to stop than others.
I recognize that extra costs are incurred in the medical field because of the way some choose to smoke, drink or eat despite all the warnings.
Then again if they don't have health insurance I feel a person is punished somewhat when they can't afford to get the beneficial treatment they require - even if they have worked hard and lived as well as they could by not doing things that are known to be possibly dangerous to their health. It doesn't seem fair.
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hwahwa
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posted on June 6, 2007 10:27:12 AM new
Nicotine is more addictive than alchohol,than marijuana ,than cocaine!
It is very hard to quit,esp if your lifestyle is stressful.
Food is also addictive,esp sweets.
*
Lets all stop whining !
*
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kiara
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posted on June 6, 2007 10:51:38 AM new
Last night I was talking to someone who has smoked off and on for years. She said that it's not too difficult for her to quit and she thinks it's a disgusting habit and she can't stand the smell and has to brush her teeth immediately if she ever lights one up.
But she said when she's under extreme stress as she definitely is now, the cigarette smells good and tastes good to her and the smoke doesn't bother her at all. She can't understand it - maybe her brain tells her different because she finds comfort from it.
It's happened to her only about three times in the last 10 years and the desire to smoke leaves when the major stress does, then smoking repels her again.
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profe51
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posted on June 6, 2007 11:16:39 AM new
There are certain individuals who for some reason don't ever become addicted to nicotine. I had an uncle who picked up and put down smoking his whole life. He'd smoke on a hunting trip or once in a while at a get together if he was drinking, but otherwise did not smoke. Apparently these people are pretty rare. I quit when my second daughter was born as the first she who must be obeyed said enough is enough. Not the hardest thing I've ever done but pretty close. From 2 packs of Camel straights a day to none overnight. That's been 20 plus years, I think I'm home free.
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roadsmith
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posted on June 6, 2007 12:04:16 PM new
About addictions: A friend who's in AA sent this the other day during an e-mail discussion we were having about MSG addiction; I think it's interesting:
"I recently heard a very simple way of explaining addiction (to food, not alcohol or drugs) I think this is how it goes: When you introduce a substance into your system that stimulates pleasure, the cells tend to remember that pathway through the brain. Continue to cause pleasure and the connection strengthens. Over time, your brain remembers that it likes this substance over others and craves it.
"So, if you stimulate your brain with healthy foods, you strengthen this connection instead of the easier, more pleasurable junk food pathway. Ever notice how hard it is to stop eating a certain food once you get started and "cross that invisible line" with sweets, fats, salt, spice? I can imagine that MSG might do the same.
_____________________
There is more to life than increasing its speed. --Mahatma Gandhi
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cblev65252
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posted on June 6, 2007 12:41:52 PM new
Hi, Helen. Ryan is doing quite well. He's as feisty as ever.
I'm happy to report that my entire immediate family is smoke free. My daughter quit with me and my son soon followed. Good thing, too. Wouldn't want that smoke around my new grandson!
Cheryl
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Helenjw
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posted on June 6, 2007 03:40:44 PM new
It's good to hear that, Cheryl!
I just returned from a piano recital and I'm looking forward to a root canal tomorrow.
And the beat goes on.
[ edited by Helenjw on Jun 6, 2007 04:01 PM ]
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classicrock000
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posted on June 6, 2007 05:30:53 PM new
"I just returned from a piano recital and I'm looking forward to a root canal tomorrow."
classicrock<-----trying to figure out which one is worse........
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If you dont want to hear the truth....dont ask the question.
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hwahwa
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posted on June 6, 2007 07:01:50 PM new
Children of parents who smoke,drink,abuse their spouse or use recreational drug tend to grow up and do the same.
I always admire folks who light up a cigarette in the middle of a conversation and everyone waits patiently while he inhales and exhales,no one ever rush him for an answer,thats something non smokers cant do.
Worse,if you have a favorite uncle or aunt whom you think is leading a glamorous life who smoke and drink,you may want to grow up and be like him/her.
*
Lets all stop whining !
*
[ edited by hwahwa on Jun 6, 2007 07:03 PM ]
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mingotree
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posted on June 7, 2007 12:15:21 AM new
Guess there will be no response by the poster of the OP over her obvious double standard GAFF!
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Helenjw
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posted on June 8, 2007 06:35:45 AM new
"classicrock<-----trying to figure out which one is worse........"
One activity is free and the other resembles extortion in this country.
And speaking of exorbitant health care expense here... there is an interesting discussion on Arcane's forum.
Would Socialized Medicine work in the USA?
Poor Linda versus Fenix, Ptuny and Salsa.
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Linda_K
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posted on June 8, 2007 08:58:31 AM new
Just proves helen is as OBSESSED with me as mingo/sybil is. It's an illness I tell you. They spend their days following me around, everywhere I go.
NO life of their own. Well....helen does enjoy having root canals done.
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Helenjw
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posted on June 8, 2007 09:40:11 AM new
I could care less where you go to make a fool of yourself. In fact, I believe that it would delight a number of people if you could find a spot where you are welcome. Have you tried freepers?
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Linda_K
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posted on June 8, 2007 09:43:46 AM new
LOL....obviously THAT'S JUST NOT TRUE, helen.
This isn't the first time you've stalked me.
You're sick. Having to follow another poster around the internet and post about them ....means something is definitely WRONG with you mentally.
NORMAL people don't practice your behaviors....over and over again.
GET help.
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Helenjw
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posted on June 8, 2007 10:00:13 AM new
Are you actually making the inference that you don't mention anything here about other boards?
What a flaming hypocrite. Nobody is stalking you.
Actually, I am impressed by the posters at Arcane's board and the civil discourse that the members there are able to maintain.
The Arcaneum Index
And especially this thread that addresses health care problems in this country.
[ edited by Helenjw on Jun 8, 2007 10:01 AM ]
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Linda_K
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posted on June 8, 2007 10:04:52 AM new
No helen. I'm talking about YOU following me around to different boards and then posting links here from there.
It's STALKING....whether you want to deny it or not. And it's not like this is the first time you've done this.
It's something you've done over and over.....throughout the years.
It's sick....it's an obsession with ME, since you don't do it with others....and imo, YOU NEED SERIOUS HELP.
Doc has stated he'd like for you to sign up at his board. That would be less COWARDLY way of expressing your obsession with me....rather than dragging everything I post anywhere back here. Where you must feel some sort of protection.
Coward....stalker.....get help.
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Helenjw
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posted on June 8, 2007 10:19:32 AM new
Linda, my only obsession is to avoid you. It's the reason that I do not post here much anymore and the reason that I have not joined Arcane's forum. I read Arcanes forum because I find it interesting...NOT because you are there.
So stop dreaming and thinking of yourself as desirable and someone who rates being "followed". You are the most undesirable and frankly obnoxious poster that I have ever encountered.
SCAT!
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Linda_K
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posted on June 8, 2007 10:41:06 AM new
Sure helen....that's why you're STILL following me around and bringing back links to this site....because you're trying to avoid me.
LOL Might sound right to someone who's as obsessed with me as you are - like your bud, sybil. But to normal people it doesn't WASH.
One ignores one they wish to avoid. YOUR behavior is sick and just the opposite.
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