roadsmith
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posted on January 31, 2008 11:18:39 PM new
I watched the Obama-Clinton debate in California this evening. Both were smart, articulate, kind to each other, funny, thoughtful, etc. How lucky we are to have two good candidates!
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profe51
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posted on February 1, 2008 04:39:31 AM new
I missed it. How did the two distinguish themselves? Any issues of substance where you could see clear cut differences?
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roadsmith
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posted on February 1, 2008 10:24:55 AM new
Profe: They differ slightly on health care (universal), can't remember what else. None of their differences would cause me to vote for the Republican candidate, however. I was just so impressed with the civility of the discourse.
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cherishedclutter
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posted on February 1, 2008 11:43:33 AM new
Profe,
Obama stressed that he was against the Iraq war from the beginning as opposed to Hillary who voted for it in the beginning.
There were probably a few other minor differences - but I don't remember them now.
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Libra63
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posted on February 1, 2008 01:48:10 PM new
So you want Hillary to try again? She screwed up the first time trying and I would never give her a second chance.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_health_care_plan
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cherishedclutter
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posted on February 1, 2008 02:09:35 PM new
I want Obama, but if Clinton is the democratic nominee - I'll probably vote for her.
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profe51
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posted on February 1, 2008 09:44:08 PM new
You never gave her a first chance Libra, who do you think you're kidding?
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Libra63
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posted on February 1, 2008 10:20:53 PM new
I had nothing to do with her first chance.
Bill have her the job. It failed and failed miserably. Did you read the url that I posted. Or did you just assume that you knew more than that URL.
Read the URL and then tell me she wasn't given the project by her husband.
Hillary's Health care plan 1993
Professor Martha Derthick that said:
“ In many years of studying American social policy, I have never read an official document that seemed so suffused with coercion and political naivete ... with its drastic prescriptions for controlling the conduct of state governments, employers, drug manufacturers, doctors, hospitals and you and me.[22]
They gave her a chance and she failed....
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[ edited by Libra63 on Feb 1, 2008 10:22 PM ]
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profe51
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posted on February 2, 2008 05:07:13 AM new
Wikipedia 
I read it. Of course she was "given" the job. But if you really study the history, the plan was bogged down miserably in Congress and eventually died. Hillary didn't kill it. Congress and special interests did.
Here's another take. Read it.
http://www.upenn.edu/pnc/ptbok.html
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Helenjw
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posted on February 2, 2008 05:56:51 AM new
I admire Hillary's effort to reform health care instead of sitting on her ass like First Lady Laura whose most dramatic move as first lady was to cancel a poetry reading at the White House.
Hillary was pilloried by the damn greedy insurance industry with every nasty tactic at their disposal...even TV ads. Frankly, I feared that she might be assassinated.
That is what you call experience, Libra...a valuable learning experience. She learned that a no compromise tactic must be moderated with more flexible strategies in order to make progress dealing with the ruthless insurance and pharmaceutical industry.
Americans were also informed by her experience. Millions of Americans who were watching learned that we are being screwed into the ground by the powerful insurance and pharmaceutical industries who, by the way also control congress.
Now she has our support. Maybe not "your" support but then your administration has failed so miserably that it's not even an obstacle.
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Libra63
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posted on February 2, 2008 10:08:39 AM new
I admire Hillary's effort to reform health care instead of sitting on her ass like First Lady Laura whose most dramatic move as first lady was to cancel a poetry reading at the White House.
That is not the job of a first lady and you as educated as you are should know that. First ladies do not make policies, do not interfere with the making of laws. The voters voted for Clinton not Hillary. We did not get 2 for 1 vote. If that is the case how come Rosalyn Carter didn't help her husband make policies?
Admire her all you want but her failed health care was nothing but a scam and everyone knew it. Things were done in secrecy. There was nothing above board with that health care plan.
Evidently Prof you were not around at that time but there was a lot of talk about all the secret meeting she had and everything that was done behind closed doors. If B. Clinton wanted National Health Care then he should have done it himself not Hillary. Or was he to busy doing other things Do you expect B. Clinton to make policies for her if she is elected? I sure don't. I don't want him near the oval office.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/vote2004/first_ladies/interview4.html
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profe51
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posted on February 3, 2008 01:22:04 AM new
So if I don't see things your way Libra, I "evidently" was not around, eh?
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Helenjw
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posted on February 3, 2008 06:06:11 AM new
Fifteen years ago?
As my southern mama used to say, you weren't even "wet behind the ears" way back then...
But Libra was there dammit!!! Witless or not, she was witness to all that "talk" and "secret" meetings behind closed doors and such.
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Helenjw
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posted on February 3, 2008 06:14:09 AM new
Toni Morrison endorses Barack Obama
Dear Senator Obama,
This letter represents a first for me–a public endorsement of a Presidential candidate. I feel driven to let you know why I am writing it. One reason is it may help gather other supporters; another is that this is one of those singular moments that nations ignore at their peril. I will not rehearse the multiple crises facing us, but of one thing I am certain: this opportunity for a national evolution (even revolution) will not come again soon, and I am convinced you are the person to capture it.
May I describe to you my thoughts?
I have admired Senator Clinton for years. Her knowledge always seemed to me exhaustive; her negotiation of politics expert. However I am more compelled by the quality of mind (as far as I can measure it) of a candidate. I cared little for her gender as a source of my admiration, and the little I did care was based on the fact that no liberal woman has ever ruled in America. Only conservative or “new-centrist” ones are allowed into that realm. Nor do I care very much for your race[s]. I would not support you if that was all you had to offer or because it might make me “proud.”
In thinking carefully about the strengths of the candidates, I stunned myself when I came to the following conclusion: that in addition to keen intelligence, integrity and a rare authenticity, you exhibit something that has nothing to do with age, experience, race or gender and something I don’t see in other candidates. That something is a creative imagination which coupled with brilliance equals wisdom. It is too bad if we associate it only with gray hair and old age. Or if we call searing vision naivete. Or if we believe cunning is insight. Or if we settle for finessing cures tailored for each ravaged tree in the forest while ignoring the poisonous landscape that feeds and surrounds it. Wisdom is a gift; you can’t train for it, inherit it, learn it in a class, or earn it in the workplace–that access can foster the acquisition of knowledge, but not wisdom.
When, I wondered, was the last time this country was guided by such a leader? Someone whose moral center was un-embargoed? Someone with courage instead of mere ambition? Someone who truly thinks of his country’s citizens as “we,” not “they”? Someone who understands what it will take to help America realize the virtues it fancies about itself, what it desperately needs to become in the world?
Our future is ripe, outrageously rich in its possibilities. Yet unleashing the glory of that future will require a difficult labor, and some may be so frightened of its birth they will refuse to abandon their nostalgia for the womb.
There have been a few prescient leaders in our past, but you are the man for this time.
Good luck to you and to us.
Toni Morrison
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coach81938
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posted on February 3, 2008 08:04:38 AM new
"Evidently Prof you were not around at that time but there was a lot of talk about all the secret meeting she had and everything that was done behind closed doors."
Well "all that talk" sure is strong enough proof to me----Just like "all that talk about UFO's" proves we have had alien visitors.
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roadsmith
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posted on February 3, 2008 09:14:25 AM new
Helen: Isn't Toni M. a fine writer! Her emphasis on wisdom is striking.
Looks like McCain has it sewed up in spite of Rush Limbaugh's rantings.
I keep remembering reading somewhere years ago that what people want in a leader is a LIKEABLE PROBLEM SOLVER. Not one or the other; gotta have both. I think that may be Hillary's problem (the likeable part), and ditto for Romney.
And when I heard yet again this morning Huckabee pledging to eliminate the IRS, I just have to shake my head. That would be okay for perhaps an hour, in this country. Then, when the roads begin to crumble and needed services are there no longer, we'd have a revolution.
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Helenjw
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posted on February 3, 2008 10:31:31 AM new
I agree, Roadsmith!
For awhile, I thought that Huckabee was at least a good comedian until I learned that he doesn't believe in evolution. When he says that he doesn't know the age of the earth, it's an indication that he doesn't believe in science.
So now he wants to schedule the elimination of the IRS? LOL!
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Libra63
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posted on February 3, 2008 01:38:09 PM new
If you know your politics you would know that he isn't the first one to say that about the IRS. Read the URL's.
http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/ia05_king/pr_050202eliminateirs.html
http://www.fff.org/freedom/0998c.asp
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Helenjw
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posted on February 3, 2008 02:56:05 PM new
Did you read any statement here that Huckabee is the only politician who has made such outrageous statements? If you use your noggin, you may notice that we are discussing presidential candidates and what they say.
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mingotree
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posted on February 3, 2008 04:48:17 PM new
Libra, you're being quite naughty!
Do I have to get after you? Don't make me come back here!
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profe51
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posted on February 3, 2008 07:37:44 PM new
mingo?
Where ya been? Or did I just miss your posts.....
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profe51
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posted on February 3, 2008 07:46:36 PM new
For awhile, I thought that Huckabee was at least a good comedian until I learned that he doesn't believe in evolution. When he says that he doesn't know the age of the earth, it's an indication that he doesn't believe in science.
If that guy had even a prayer of being elected, it would be truly scary for this country.
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mingotree
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posted on February 3, 2008 09:01:47 PM new
Hi profe, just been busy lately and I found another chat room to cause trouble in ...lucky I don't have much time for that one either.
I have lost some interest in politics...it all seems so phony and useless and just TOO MUCH (so much?)... but I agree with you about Romney...I see him and get the willies...the poor repugs just can't come up with a decent candidate...I think they're behind pushing Hillary as the front runner because they feel they have a chance of beating her. I think it'll be Obama..
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Libra63
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posted on February 3, 2008 09:29:04 PM new
Right Helen and with that statement you made about Huckabee you put a question mark after it. So, I answered your question. Next time just end your sentences with a period and you will be just fine....
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Libra63
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posted on February 3, 2008 09:33:44 PM new
No crow just calling a spade a spade. I come to cause no trouble just point people in the right direction. When talking politics you must know what your talking about.
I knew when you saw me posting you would come around only to give me grief but guess what you won't because I don't stop here to often. I have much better things to do like go shovel snow.
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kiara
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posted on February 3, 2008 11:12:57 PM new
When talking politics you must know what your talking about.
I dunno, when someone comes back a few years later from a self-inflicted Vendio vacation and tries to pick up where they left off by stating that Bush's approval rating is 52% it makes me smile.
obladi oblada life goes on
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Helenjw
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posted on February 4, 2008 04:13:41 AM new
Kiara
Libra writes..."Right Helen and with that statement you made about Huckabee you put a question mark after it. So, I answered your question. Next time just end your sentences with a period and you will be just fine...."
Libra, there are several types of questions. The queistion that I used is called a rhetorical question.
A rhetorical question is one that requires no answer because the answer is obvious and doesn't need to be stated. The writer of the rhetorical question is not looking for an answer but is making a point as in an argument.
It's my opinion that you may be the only poster that I've encountered during my several years here who has such problems reading so I'll make a special effort in the future not to overwhelm you with such tactics.
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Libra63
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posted on February 4, 2008 04:43:49 AM new
There you go Helen telling me what I don't know. That is the problem with you. So I am supposed to know what you are thinking. Get real Helen I am not ready to pick a fight with you or anyone else. Yes, I took a vacation from Vendio and other things. You don't know the reason why I did. I have rights as you do. I will do as I please, say what I want and I don't need you to tell me how to post. Do you get it. You would never have said that about Huckabee if you had known that getting rid of the IRS goes back a long way and it wasn't a stupid statement made by him. It was you who doesn't know history. You were the one who made the stupid statement. You know what a stupid statement is. Health Care for all made by Hillary and Obama. I don't want anyone fooling with my healthcare especially someone that doesn't know anything. Someone who cries when they lose a primary. Someone who yells instead of speaking. So now you know how I feel.
Now go back to patting each other on the back.
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mingotree
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posted on February 4, 2008 07:56:17 AM new
"""There you go Helen telling me what I don't know.""""
Well someone has to
As to the rest of her post...this person votes...and is one of the reasons I don't hold much hope for this country.
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Helenjw
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posted on February 4, 2008 08:17:26 AM new
You've been missed, Mingo.
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