posted on August 10, 2008 02:27:18 PM new
Boy, your news channels don't paint a very good picture of the typical American. Is bashing your fellow man the only way you can feel superior? What I see are a bunch of ungrateful people who are driving suv's and big cars and whining all day because gas prices are so high. I see families having to downsize into a 3 bedroom house and give up their 6 bedroom, 3 car garage house because they can't afford it and never could. I see these people all whining for assistance from the government. I see people having babies they can't afford and again crying to your government when they run out of money. I see all these obese people waddling around at Disney World or wherever, and complaining about your health care system while they eat. What happened to the responsible American?? Is that ideology dead?
posted on August 10, 2008 04:35:06 PM new
There are still lots of us responsible Americans here, Kraft.
I have to say that I have no sympathy for grossly overweight people, or for those who drink or smoke too much or bake in the sun or otherwise don't take care of their bodies. Not saying everyone should be skinny--but when folks are committing slow suicide, I'm not sure we should be helping them until they get their lives in order.
Edited to add: Yes, I know I sound harsh here.
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[ edited by roadsmith on Aug 10, 2008 04:35 PM ]
posted on August 10, 2008 07:10:50 PM new
I have to speak up for the fatties here. I truly believe diversity is the key to human survival and weight is normally 90% genetically determined. Healthy, overweight people are continually discriminated against - socially and in the workplace. Diets, to reduce weight, usually result in long-term weight gain. My grandmother was a healthy size 14 most of her life (she lived to 101). I am very worried about her offspring - diets have resulted in 250+ lbs as well as size 4 with imbalanced hormones. Let's not criminalize weight in determining a person's worth.
[ edited by pixiamom on Aug 10, 2008 07:17 PM ]
posted on August 10, 2008 09:04:15 PM new
Really? 90% genetically determined? Has there been some sudden change in the human gene pool that has caused American children to suddenly become obese at alarming rates? What horrible mutation in our chromosomes has caused sixty four and half percent of the American population to be obese or overweight?
I don't suppose supersizing has anything to do with it. I'm quite sure the fact that portion sizes at restaurants have skyrocketed at the same time the number of times the American family eats a home cooked meal at the dinner table has plummeted could possibly have affected the number of fatties on the street and in the way at every store, or the fact that at least 4 full center aisles at the grocery store are stuffed full of unnecessary snack foods and most of the rest of the store is filled with heavily processed "convenience" foods, leaving the actual fresh food hanging out on the periphery of the store, where it won't get in the way of the 400 pounders in their motorized carts going after the potato chips, soda and frozen pizzas.
I guess all those health agencies who are reporting on this country's fat epidemic have failed to consider that 90% of those people are genetically plus-sized and can't do anything about it anyway.
I can remember being a kid and going to town with the family. Big event. I remember my mother admonishing me not to stare when I saw someone who was grossly obese. She explained to me that some people are "big boned" and that's just the way god made them. Nowadays, if you spent even a few seconds staring at every fat person you saw, you'd waste your whole day.
If the vast majority of all the fat people in this country are genetically "big boned", the human race is in more trouble than anyone can imagine.
posted on August 10, 2008 11:20:33 PM new
We were discussing weight today because someone we know has a weight problem and he says he has tried every way possible to lose weight and is unable to. But when he called us he had just finished a meal and related what he had eaten - we could have shared it and each of us would have had a generous enough meal. A diet soda accompanied his large meal and I remember reading that diet soda may actually promote weight gain as the artificial sweeteners may stimulate the brain causing a person to overeat.
It's shocking how many fat children I see these days. I realize that it's more difficult for some adults to lose weight than others, but if the weight isn't disease related at least adults have somewhat of a choice whether they wish to be that way or not, but to let their children become fat is a form of child abuse. I believe it's caused by an excess of fast food coupled with a lack of exercise.
Pixiamom, what you wrongly perceive as a hereditary problem is primarily caused by learned behavior within the family. Generally, people continue throughout life to consume the same kind and portions of food that they learned as children to enjoy.
Unfortunately, we don't have the health care system here that might offer preventative care that could spot and help to resolve the problem of obesity before it becomes a costly and serious medical problem.
It's not an easy task to reeducate a child or adult to abandon poor eating and lifestyle habits based on family tradition and learned behavior. But the schools in my area are becoming involved. After seeing a movie at school about unhealthy food at fast food restaurants my neighbor's young son refuses to eat at McDonald's.
posted on August 11, 2008 06:08:23 PM new
I've begun looking around on my infrequent visits to some of the food establishments. It's very instructive to see super-sized people ordering super-sized "meals" of (primariy) fat and salt. The big buffet restaurants, the fast-food places, IHOP, and others have an inordinately high number of obese folks.
In the time it takes a working parent to go to a fast-food place for takeout, he or she could chop up a salad, make a sandwich, grill some meat, microwave potatoes, etc. Once a week he or she could shop for real food and depend on that to feed the family.
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posted on August 11, 2008 10:52:53 PM newThere are still lots of us responsible Americans here, Kraft.
That's my point, Roadsmith. It's American news and news-type channels. They paint the US as being a sewer of people that are irresponsible and greedy and fat. I think it's awful.
posted on August 12, 2008 01:06:54 PM new
Roadsmith, parents that are working and don't have time to fix dinner, etc., SHOULDN'T HAVE CHILDREN. They should wait until they can do things properly. Do parents honestly need people to tell them that?
posted on August 12, 2008 01:13:04 PM new
From casual observation 40-60% of people should not have children. People allow absurd behavior from their children they wouldn't tolerate from their dog.
posted on August 12, 2008 08:41:06 PM new
I can't believe what I'm reading about how prejudiced you people are against overweight adults.
I'm one of the "fatties" riding in the motorized carts in the grocery stores.
Wanna know why? I had a heart transplant and I take rejection drugs that MAKE you gain wait no matter what you do.
Before I became ill I was 6 ft. 3 and weighed 210 lbs. Lean and all muscle.
Now I weigh 275 lbs. because I CAN'T exercise the way I'd like to, and I CAN'T stop taking the medicine that made me gain the weight or I will DIE.
So...try to have a little compassion next time you see a 'fattie' riding a cart - you never know their whole story.
posted on August 12, 2008 09:01:19 PM new
"Pixiamom, what you wrongly perceive as a hereditary problem is primarily caused by learned behavior within the family."
I believe that this was a popular 1970's theory which has been largely displaced by more recent genetics theory. From personal experience, our family tradition of buttering toast before making a bacon sandwich coupled with my reliance on fast and frozen foods has not resulted in an obese kid - rather a kid true to his dad's genetics.
Edited to add 5'5" 110 lbs.
[ edited by pixiamom on Aug 12, 2008 09:17 PM ]
posted on August 12, 2008 09:43:20 PM new
Urban and Pixi--Of course! there are exceptions, and my heart goes out to anyone who cannot get around because of medical complications.
But that doesn't explain the obese families feeding at the all-you-can-eat troughs--people who walked in on their own two feet. Family Buffet, in Southern California, was a real eye-opener to us -- once. (That was enough.)
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posted on August 13, 2008 05:51:39 AM new Pixiamom, you failed to read my complete statement carefully. I qualified that statement with the word "primarily".
Overeating is the PRIMARY cause of the weight problem that plagues this country today. I also mentioned lifestyle, meaning lack of exercise as another factor. I did not discount heredity or disease or medication which are, of course, contributing factors in some cases but not in most cases.
don't discount that the obesity rate is going up mostly in area's where technology is creating more 'desk' jobs than we had in the past.
the old days of low income families doing hard manual labor. now the easy jobs to come by are sitting at a desk being a tellemarketer, customer service worker or order processor.
the problem is that our diets haven't changed to match this new lower-energy requirement lifestyle. sure, you could eat a big a$$ breakfast before work, and not worry about getting fat - if you were really working all day, expending a good amount of energy.
there's no excuse for having some pancakes and biscuits w/gravy if your just going to be a desk jockey all day long.
posted on August 13, 2008 11:03:19 AM new Pixiamom, you state, "From personal experience, our family tradition of buttering toast before making a bacon sandwich coupled with my reliance on fast and frozen foods has not resulted in an obese kid - rather a kid true to his dad's genetics. "
[i]"Edited to add 5'5" 110 lbs."[i]
Another point that you might consider, Pixiamom...
You have mentioned that your son enjoys sports such as surfing, in=line skating, skateboarding, skiing and basketball. This activity may account for his ability to maintain an appropriate weight in spite of a diet high in fat and sodium....rather than the hereditary predisposition that you credit.
Frozen food dinners contain an incredible amount of sodium and fast food is loaded with fat and sodium...not a good diet for anyone regardless of their weight or heredity.
posted on August 13, 2008 10:22:11 PM new
Enough excuses already. I have fat friends and fat relatives. We all do. They can make excuses for themselves, I won't do it for them. We can yammer away about nature/nurture theories all we want. Facts are facts. This country is the fattest on earth and getting porkier by the day. There will always be medical conditions like the one mentioned above, but I'll bet you'd be hard pressed to find any of them in the grocery store at any given time among all the plus sized folks tooling down the aisles in their motorized carts. In the end, barring medical issues, the decision to get and stay fat is a personal one. I'm tired of tiptoeing around worrying about offending people who are taking up more than their fair share of this planet just because they are too busy (lazy) to walk around the block a few times a week and eat more real food and less corporate poison. To what extent do you suppose fat people are affecting the cost of medical care? Heart disease, diabetes, cancer, you name it it's exacerbated by excess weight and we all end up helping foot the bill for these people. We've used that as an excuse to be mean to smokers and it's perfectly all right. Smokers cost non smokers money and it's my contention that fat people do too, perhaps to a greater, but less obvious extent. Thank god there's no such thing as second hand fat.
[ edited by profe51 on Aug 14, 2008 05:26 AM ]
posted on August 13, 2008 11:28:48 PM new
Fat phobia at work, - ignoring science and reducing weight to a moral issue - folks have little more influence on their body mass than they have on their skin color, shame on you Profe!
[ edited by pixiamom on Aug 13, 2008 11:52 PM ]
posted on August 14, 2008 05:43:38 AM new "Fat phobia at work, - ignoring science and reducing weight to a moral issue - folks have little more influence on their body mass than they have on their skin color, shame on you Profe!"
Only you are ignoring science, Pixiamom. Recently, the Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) determined that Mississippi is the fattest state in the U.S. The CDC found that the problem there is caused by a more sedentary life style combined of course with foods of poor quality rich in calories.
You are simply bull headed and ignorant if you believe that the problem is caused primarily by the quality of genes in that or any other location. I suppose you would tell these people to eat drink and be merry because when they develop a costly and debilitating disease that there will always be a wheelchair or some other accomodation waiting for them before they die.
And you can whisper in their ears, don't blame yourselves or the lack of medical or community attention...it was "all in your genes".
posted on August 14, 2008 05:47:18 AM newFunny this should bother you when you "foot the bill" for the entire pc handbook.
Don't you mean fit the bill squirrel? Dontcha just hate it when somebody doesn't match the stereotype you've got all tidied up for them?
Pixiamom, I'm not sure what science you think I'm ignoring. I read the NY times article and it's interesting but hardly summarizes the totality of studies that are being done. I don't doubt there's a hereditary tendency to body mass. I don't doubt that an individual has a weight range that his body naturally gravitates to. But that can't possibly be all there is to it. If it was, the percentage of overweight people in a given population would also tend to remain stable over time, but the U.S. population is getting fatter all the time. Maybe only the fat people are having babies, but I'll bet it's more likely diet and lifestyle choices that are behind the numbers.
posted on August 14, 2008 06:00:46 AM new
Of course, nobody will admit how often they eat fast food or how often they give it to their kids, but the fact that you can hit a handful of fast food restaurants with a rock on any street in any town of any size in this country might be an indication. This is from the Center for Science in
The Public Interest.
Obesity on the Kids' Menus at Top Chains
CSPI Investigation Reveals Kids’ Meals at Restaurants Usually Too High in Calories, and Good Options Hard to Find
WASHINGTON—Nearly every single possible combination of the children's meals at KFC, Taco Bell, Sonic, Jack in the Box, and Chick-fil-A is too high in calories, according to the nonprofit Center for Science in the Public Interest, which today released the results of an investigation into the nutritional quality of kids’ meals at 13 top restaurant chains. Ninety-three percent of 1,474 possible choices at the 13 chains exceed 430 calories—an amount that is one-third of what the Institute of Medicine recommends that children aged four through eight should consume in a day.
Chili’s has 700 possible kids’ meal combinations, but 658, or 94 percent, of those are too high in calories, including one comprised of country-fried chicken crispers, cinnamon apples, and chocolate milk (1,020 calories) and another comprised of cheese pizza, homestyle fries, and lemonade (1,000 calories). Burger King has a "Big Kids" meal with a double cheeseburger, fries, and chocolate milk (910 calories), and Sonic has a "Wacky Pack" with 830 calories worth of grilled cheese, fries, and a slushie.
KFC has a wide variety of side items, but there are few meal combinations that keep a reasonable ceiling on calories, according to the study. One example of a high-cal combo KFC kid’s meal (the chain calls them "Laptop Meals" has popcorn chicken, baked beans, biscuit, Teddy Grahams, and fruit punch, which has 940 calories. (KFC has since dropped Baked Cheetos from its kids’ meals, and some outlets vary the number of chicken strips or sides.)
Most of the kids’meals (93 percent) at McDonald’s and Wendy’s are too high in calories, as are the possibilities at Burger King (92 percent), Dairy Queen (89 percent), Arby's (69 percent), and Denny's (60 percent—though its kids' meals don’t include drinks). (Since CSPI’s study was completed, Burger King has introduced one new children's meal with macaroni and cheese, apple "fries," and 1 percent milk, which has a reasonable 420 calories.)
Subway's kids' meals came out on top. Only a third of its Fresh Fit for Kids meals, which include a mini-sub, juice box, and one of several healthful side items (apple slices, raisins, or yogurt), exceed the 430-calorie threshold. Subway is the only chain that doesn’t offer soft drinks with kids’ meals.
"Parents want to feed their children healthy meals but America’s chain restaurants are setting parents up to fail," said CSPI nutrition policy director Margo G. Wootan. "McDonald's, Burger King, KFC, and other chains are conditioning kids to expect burgers, fried chicken, pizza, French fries, macaroni and cheese, and soda in various combination at almost every lunch and dinner."
Besides being almost always too high in calories, 45 percent of the kids' meals at the 13 chains studied by CSPI are too high in saturated and trans fat, and 86 percent are too high in sodium. That’s alarming, according to CSPI, because a quarter of children between the ages of five and ten show early signs of heart disease, such as high LDL (the "bad" cholesterol) or elevated blood pressure.
"People may not get a heart attack until their 50s or 60s, but arteries begin to clog in childhood," said Wootan. "Most of these kids’ meals appear to be designed to put America’s children on the fast-track to obesity, disability, heart attack, or diabetes."
Though the overwhelming majority of chain restaurant kids' meals are nutritionally poor, calorie counts on menus and menu boards would help parents assemble healthier meals for their children. If Arby’s kids' meals had calorie counts, parents could see that substituting a fruit cup and a juice box for fries and a soda would cut a popcorn chicken meal from 720 calories to 420. If Denny’s listed calories on menus, parents could see the surprising difference between the calories in Big Dipper French Toastix (770) and Smiley-Alien Hotcakes (without meat, 370).
CSPI has advocated laws or regulations that require chain restaurants to list calories on menus and menu boards. They've already begun appearing in New York City. San Francisco, King County (Seattle), WA., Multnomah County (Portland), OR, and Santa Clara County, CA, also have passed menu labeling policies. Similar policies have been introduced in over 20 other states and localities over the last two years. California’s legislature may be on the verge of passing a statewide menu labeling bill, which lobbyists for the chain restaurant industry are fighting tooth and nail. The California Center for Public Health Advocacy, an advocacy group leading the fight for menu labeling legislation in that state, collaborated with CSPI on the study released today.
CSPI only scrutinized the chains that have dedicated children’s menus (19 out of the top 25 chains) and that provide nutrition information on their web sites or elsewhere (13 chains). Applebee’s, T.G.I. Friday’s, Outback Steakhouse, Olive Garden, Red Lobster, and IHOP do not disclose nutrition information for most menu items even upon request.
posted on August 14, 2008 07:33:35 AM new
Vintage4u makes a good point that jobs have changed from hard labor to sedentary desk jobs so calories don't get burned quickly enough. Leisure time is now spent on computers and other electronic gizmos that provide entertainment and kids spend more time indoors than ever before. Parents use the excuse that the world is unsafe but sometimes I think they're all too burned out from working and paying bills that they don't have time or energy to devote to meal preparation or outdoor family activities. Fast food isn't high energy food so it most likely makes those who eat it more sluggish over time.
Helen mentioned that Mississippi is the fattest state. This site has the maps of the fattest and leanest states.
You Are Where You Eat: Obesity Maps of North America
From Profe's article about the CSPI investigation....
"People may not get a heart attack until their 50s or 60s, but arteries begin to clog in childhood," said Wootan. "Most of these kids’ meals appear to be designed to put America’s children on the fast-track to obesity, disability, heart attack, or diabetes."
So children eating "butter and bacon sandwiches", frozen dinners and fast food may be clogging their arteries in addition to learning bad eating habits.
posted on August 14, 2008 12:17:03 PM new
Interesting to see that the states with the highest rates of obesity are in the Bible Belt.
Since when did obesity be a requirement to get into heaven? "She Who Must Not Be Named is gone. Banished far, far away with her minions to the outer realms where she can't hurt anyone ever again" - the profe
posted on August 14, 2008 01:24:48 PM new
Pixi: I think this is the first issue you and I haven't agreed on 100%! Someone has made the point that a child, while still appearing slender, can be clogging his arteries with cholesterol. Both of our daughters have held the line on junk foods with their children, and I'm grateful for that.
I'm constantly amazed, in line at the grocery cashier's counter, to see the piles of junk food people are unloading from their carts.
And I challenge anyone to check the cart of those using motorized carts; what's the ratio of fatty foods to vegetables and fruit? Pixi, we just need to look around us at what the large people are ordering in the restaurants.
Logansdad said: "Interesting to see that the states with the highest rates of obesity are in the Bible Belt. Since when did obesity be a requirement to get into heaven?"
Gluttony is ONE OF THE SEVEN DEADLY SINS, you Bible belt folks! Tell that to your religious leaders on TV with the pot bellies. (Or are some of the deadly sins more deadly than others? As some of the 10 commandments can be safely ignored?)
posted on August 18, 2008 11:17:21 PM new
Roadsmith, I see this as a discussion on obesity, and the disgust and discrimination that accompanies it. Some see it as a moral flaw, while all recent studies have shown it to be an extremely inherited (not learned- check the studies of adopted children mirroring the weight of the biologic, not adoptive parents, and of the near-identical weights of twins separated at birth) condition which dieting has compounded, not lessened the effects of.
Extreme obesity usually points to other major medical causes. I callously pronounced amazement at the weight of a neighbor, all carried below her waist - she required a special transit bus to deliver her to her apartment - my son corrected me - he attends the same middle school as her daughter - her mom has a condition which accumulates fluid in her legs. How courageous for her to go out and earn a living rather than accepting a disability chack! If you saw her at the market buying a frozen pizza for her daughter, you would blame her diet for her condition.
My son's best friend is a wonderful overweight (they looked like Mutt + jeff together) kid who slimmed down a bit a year ago. He refused all treats, even after roller-blading. I spoke to his Mom about it - she said his Dad had ridiculed him to the point that he modified his diet drastically. His weight changed. So did his metabolism. He is now fatter than ever - compensating with being on the football team. It bothers me that teachers and others are so ignorant and arrogant on the causes of obesity.
As far as fast food or any restaurant item goes: "hold the mayo" reduces at least 50 calories - opting for "apple fries" instead of french fries or other menu choices reduces it more.
Fast food or otherwise, I see the biggest culprit as portion size. You do not have to eat all that is served in one sitting! We enjoy restaurant food by always requesting to-go bags - eating the left-overs for another meal or two.
has popcorn chicken, baked beans, biscuit, Teddy Grahams, and fruit punch, which has 940 calories. (KFC has since dropped Baked Cheetos from its kids’ meals, and some outlets vary the number of chicken strips or sides.)