posted on November 8, 2000 05:54:37 AM new
While in Canada we have lots of politicians who appear brain dead, how did the US manage to elect a dead man? How will he vote?
posted on November 8, 2000 06:18:41 AM new
Very, very weird situation. Doesn't say much for his opponent, does it?
Watch for lots of hue and cry courtwise on this one, since his replacement (his widow?? Talk about nepotism) wasn't actually on the ballot. Last time I checked, you can't put Party A on the ballot, have him elected, and then have somebody replace him post-election.
posted on November 8, 2000 06:37:53 AM newLast time I checked, you can't put Party A on the ballot, have him elected, and then have somebody replace him post-election.
Actually you can. The Governor can appoint anyone that he chooses to replace the dead (but winning) candidate. And he has already said that he will appoint Carnahan's widow to the seat. Then there will be a special election in 2 years to fill the seat electorally.
This happened in Georgia a year or so ago when Senator Paul Coverdell (a Republican) died. The Democratic Governor appointed Zell Miller (the former Democratic Governor) to replace him.
This is the reason that Missouri Democratic officials decided to leave Carnahan on the ballot. Since the Governor is a Democrat, they didn't have to worry about losing the seat in the election to the Republicans. Of course, the Republican challenger could have defeated the dead candidate, but the Democratic powers that be had a hunch that he wouldn't. Pretty smart politics.
posted on November 8, 2000 07:31:45 AM new
Fascinating. And that applies even if the candidate is dead BEFORE the election? Sounds like something ripe for abuse, not to mention a good mystery: Put a Loveable-but-Dead (or on life support) name on the ticket, then swear in Alive-and-Kickin'.
posted on November 8, 2000 08:25:49 AM new
Not even death can stop Texas polititians.
Rumor has it the dead voted in droves for thier native son when Lyndon Johnson was running for office in Texas.
posted on November 8, 2000 08:33:45 AM newAnd that applies even if the candidate is dead BEFORE the election?
Yep. Once a name is officially on the ballot, if something happens to the candidate it is their party's choice whether to let it ride or replace the deceased (if there is time). Candidates have died the day before the election in a couple of cases and the candidates couldn't be replaced at all simply because there wasn't enough time. This is where write-in votes come into play.
Actually dead people have won quite a few elections over the years. This is not an isolated incident believe it or not.
posted on November 8, 2000 08:37:19 AM newPut a Loveable-but-Dead (or on life support) name on the ticket, then swear in Alive-and-Kickin'.
There is a caveat: The candidate has to be alive when their name is placed on the ballot. The parties cannot nominate a candidate that is already deceased.
Anyone wanna vote for Elvis? He would probably have won against the 3 guys that ran this time.
posted on November 8, 2000 09:29:27 AM new
My fellow 'mericans. Tonight was a great night. "Think about that. Two hundred and eighty-five new or expanded programs, $2 trillion more in new
spending, and not one new bureaucrat to file out the forms or answer the phones?" Think about that. "My opponents, they want the federal government
controlling Social Security like it's some kind of federal program" But I want the states to do it. "They said, 'You know, this issue doesn't seem to resignate with
the people.' And I said, you know something? Whether it resignates or not doesn't matter to me, because I stand for doing what's the right thing, and what the
right thing is hearing the voices of people who work."
Anyway, "after we went out and worked our hearts out, after you went out and helped us turn out the vote, after we've convinced the good
Americans to vote, and while they're at it, pulled that old George W. lever, I'm the one, when I put my hand on the Bible, when I put my hand on
the Bible, that day when they swear us in, when I put my hand on the Bible, I will swear to not—to uphold the laws of the land." "My election
marks a chapter, the last chapter of the 20th, 20th, the 21st century that most of us would rather forget. The last chapter of the 20th century. This is the first
chapter of the 21st century. So we must spread the word. It's important for us to explain to our nation that life is important. It's not only life of babies, but it's
life of children living in, you know, the dark dungeons of the Internet." And furthermore, "I don't want nations feeling like that they can bully ourselves and our
allies. I want to have a ballistic defense system so that we can make the world more peaceful, and at the same time I want to reduce our own nuclear capacities
to the level commiserate with keeping the peace."
And Mr. Vice President, Dick, "in all due respect, it is—I'm not sure 80 percent of the people get the death tax. I know this: 100 percent will get it if I'm the
president. And I'm gonna give it to 'em." I'll give it to 'em real good, so help me. And "about my finances, my finances, I will have my secretary of treasury be in
touch with the financial centers, not only here but at home. Also, a tax cut will be really one of the anecdotes to coming out of an economic illness." And so on.
Listen, "Al Gore was a very tough opponent. He is the incumbent. He represents the incumbency. And a challenger is somebody who generally comes from the
pack and wins, if you're going to win. And that's where I'm coming from." And that's why I won.
"The fundamental question is, 'Will I be a successful president when it comes to foreign policy?' I will be, but until I'm the president, it's going to be hard for me
to verify that I think I'll be more effective." But you'll see. "The only things that I can tell you is that every case in Texas I have reviewed I have been comfortable
with the innocence or guilt of the person that I've looked at. I do not believe we've put a guilty ... I mean innocent person to death in the state of Texas." But "I
promise you that I'm gonna talk about the ideal world. I've read—I understand reality. If you're asking me as the president, would I understand reality, I do." So
that you and...and good night, my fellow 'mericans, and pray, pray real hard. [All quotations from the speeches of George W. Bush]
posted on November 8, 2000 10:20:05 AM new
There's been some noise that the dead guy election might be challenged on the basis of residency. It might all come down to the classic hypothetical, and we'll have to ask - Where are the survivors buried?
posted on November 8, 2000 10:35:19 AM newabingdon and HCQ -- in the Carnahan case, it was literally too late to reprint ballots more than anything else. The former governor died just weeks ago, in October. The current Governor announced that should the late Carnahan win, he would appoint his widow, thus making her a candidate. She subsequently gave two announcements to the press that she would accept and that she felt this is what her husband would want -- to carry on his ideals and vision, but did no campaigning.
This isn't the first time that's happened. In fact, it happened to reporter Cokie Roberts' mother. Her husband Hale Boggs went missing in an private airplane (eventually presumed dead, I don't think he was ever found) in October before the November elections. He won and Mrs. Boggs was appointed to take his seat. This must've been in the 1950s or so.
As for the newly elected Senator from Georgia, former Governor Zell Miller, he was appointed just this past summer by Gov. Roy Barnes to fill the late Sen. Paul Coverdale's remaining few months, and was re-elected (or elected for the first time, actually) yesterday. He'll be a fine Senator.
I can't imagine any legal challenges to Mrs. Carnahan's appointment will hold water. But in THIS election year, who the heck knows?
Sure like the increasing numbers of women Senators these days.
posted on November 8, 2000 12:28:11 PM new
Challenges to Mrs. Carnahan.s appointment will probably not hold water, however, challenges to her husband's election may.
Depending on the laws of Missouri, he may have ceased being a legal candidate at his death. It of course depends on Missouri State Law, but if he is legally declared an invalid candidate, then he is not able to win, votes for him are nullified and Mrs. carnahan cannot be appointed in his stead.
Last night I heard a possibility that if Gore concedes(I assume following the Florida recount, assuming Bush wins that)the Republicans might agree to not contest the issue in Missouri.
The Party agreement would not keep any other person or organization from contesting the validity of Governor Carnahan's candidacy.
posted on November 8, 2000 12:28:26 PM new
Re: Missouri
If a candidate dies within the last 30 days before a election a name cannot be removed from the ballot. It must stay on the ballot.
A different twist but that's the way it is.
It is really not to uncommon for a woman to fill her spouses office. Mrs Emerson did it and then ran on her own but of course it was not the last 30 days. Now she is the "darling" of the Republicans and just won this time.
posted on November 8, 2000 12:41:20 PM new
I don't get it. I know it's happened several times, but what on earth "qualifies" a surviving spouse as a replacement for the deceased candidate? Talk about courting the sentimental vote.
posted on November 8, 2000 12:46:13 PM newTalk about courting the sentimental vote.
You hit the nail on the head. Carnahan was trailing badly in the polls up until his death and it was very doubtful that he could win. They knew that the sympathy vote would run high strong and they were right.
A far as her qualifications goes, she doesn't need any. The Governor can appoint anyone that he wishes to fill the vacant post.
posted on November 8, 2000 08:02:09 PM new
Hi dawford,
Yes that is the law and I also heard fact on the news so "Democratic Party Officials" had nothing to do with leaving his name on the ballot.
Abingdoncomputers,
Really? I thought Carnahan stood a very good chance to beat Ashcroft. Believe me when I say I am no fan of Ashcroft and was really looking forward to him going home.
Turns out that Carhahan did win even if he isn't with us.
A sympathy vote? Not me. Not me it was a vote to get Ashcroft out.
Hi toke,
"Perhaps a novice can be controlled by her party or something like that.
Don't think that qualification is neccessarily limited to a novice.
posted on November 9, 2000 10:25:44 AM new
No Ashcroft did not do what the people wanted. Neither did Carnahan as Governor of this state. Most of them don't do what the people want or even a forth of what they promise.
Ashcroft said on the news last night that he will not challenge the out come and that he would not be a party to any challenge.
posted on November 9, 2000 10:36:52 AM new
As I recollect, many years ago the citizens of San Paulo Brazil almost voted in a rhino from their local zoo as mayor.
Humanity I love; it's people I can't stand
