posted on November 24, 2000 10:28:33 AM
....next??
"On ABC World News Tonight on Thursday, Nov. 23, there was a story about the Miami-Dade protest [prior to the Miami-Dade decision to stop counting altogether, losing Al Gore an estimated bulge of 2,000 votes over Bush.] It was not so spontaneous, but maybe the planned work of a Bush group, whose operations were centered in a nearby motorhome. Bush Raiders or something like that. They appeared from out of town so when a reporter asked one of them where they were from another person told them to not say. They were ostensibly there to "help the media". Anyway when the protest was over and the near riot panicked the canvassing board into quitting, the group drove away."..... "That RightWing Dittohead riot down in Miami was PLANNED ! It was a GOOPER Dirty Tricksters operation. The majority of those people banging on the doors and walls were from outside of Florida. They also uncovered a mobile HQ for the operation, a motorhome parked out in the parking lot filled with tons of electronic equipment and Bushie brownshirts." 11/24/00
[ edited by krs on Nov 24, 2000 11:58 AM ]
posted on November 24, 2000 10:31:44 AM
MIAMI-DADE STOPPED COUNTING BECAUSE OF ACTUAL PHYSICAL VIOLENCE"
The subsequent demonstrations turned violent on Wednesday after the canvassers had decided to close the recount to the public because of fears of physical violence. Joe Geller, chairman of the Miami-Dade Democratic Party, was escorted to safety by the police after a crowd chased him down and accused him of stealing a ballot. Upstairs in the Clark center, several people were trampled, punched or kicked when protesters tried to rush the doors outside the office of the Miami-Dade supervisor of elections. Sheriff's deputies restored order. When the ruckus was over, the protesters had what they had wanted: a unanimous vote by the board to call off the hand counting." --NYT, 11/24/00
posted on November 24, 2000 10:36:33 AM
"One of the issues the Gore team raised in its failed attempt to keep Miami-Dade counting was the contentious atmosphere around the local canvassing board as it
tried to do its work. ABCNEWS has learned that a strenuous, seemingly spontaneous public demonstration against the recount Wednesday in Miami-Dade — which
contributed to one canvassing board member’s vote in the 3-0 decision to quit recounting — was actually organized by the Republican Party, which bused supporters in from out of town. The Republicans had argued that Democratic officials were trying to take ballots behind closed doors. On World News Tonight Thursday,ABCNEWS reporter Bill Redeker found a motor home where Republican operatives were conducting a “media operation” that turned out to be direct involvement in the protest. That mobile home has now moved up to Broward County, he said on Good Morning America today. “If citizens of the United States are voluntarily objecting to the process where the rules change, and where Democratic officials take these ballots behind closed doors where they can’t be observers, I think American citizens are entitled to do that sort of thing,” [Bush lawyer Theodore] Olson said." --ABC
posted on November 24, 2000 10:47:40 AM
You are in danger of breaking Radh's record for the most consecutive posts to your own thread. She also talks to herself a lot.
posted on November 24, 2000 11:27:28 AM
I'm curious, what is the source of your first story in this thread. I'm curious what news service without party bias uses the term 'brownshirts'. The ABC news made no use of such a word, and I'd be surprised to find any major news service using that term unless they were quoting someone.
posted on November 24, 2000 11:40:23 AM
The phrase "without party bias" is mine, and referred to any misspellings.
For you that means that I do not correct spelling for one party and not the other, or rather, I do not correct spelling for either party.
I do sometimes make changes or deletions so as to remain within the editorial constraints of common copyright provisions, but those are in the service of an easier understanding by all parties with interest. It has been my experience that certain members, most particularly certain members who express republican leanings, would be in need of such assistance.
The term "Brownshirts" might well be easily understood by those members, and even be seen as a source of pride in unity, wouldn't you agree?
posted on November 24, 2000 11:42:37 AM
Ever get the feeling nobody's listening, krs? I read CleverGirl's first post about this travesty earlier this morning, then expected to see some probing coverage on TV, or people shouting about deliberate election tampering (because that's precisely what this goon squad did) or demanding an investigation ... but I haven't seen or heard anything about it. I think that's why these clowns pull these brazen stunts -- because the public's apathy assures there will be no penalty.
posted on November 24, 2000 11:47:49 AM
Yes. However, it is the stated policy of the U.S. Department of Justice that investigations into election manipulations of any kind will be withheld as long as the election is in process.
There was a statement to that effect in media even before this broughaha began.
Also, Al Gore made public entreaties to downplay talk of impropriety until the outcome had been reached.
posted on November 24, 2000 11:58:58 AMkrs:I do sometimes make changes or deletions so as to remain within the editorial constraints of common copyright provisions, but those are in the service of an easier understanding by all parties with interest. It has been my experience that certain members, most particularly certain members who express republican leanings, would be in need of such assistance.
The term "Brownshirts" might well be easily understood by those members, and even be seen as a source of pride in unity, wouldn't you agree?
In other words you inserted the word "brownshirts" into the alleged news report you posted? And it must be called "alleged" now...how much else did you doctor in this "report"?
For goodness sake, krs, if you are going to post a "news report" post it as it actually appeared. At the very least, if you are going to make your own little changes or additions, have the decency to state that you have done so. Otherwise you are being downright misleading.
posted on November 24, 2000 12:02:05 PM
No, I didn't insert that word, and I've already given the source of reports when asked by Joice, I believe, in another thread.
Oh, did you miss ""On ABC World News Tonight on Thursday, Nov. 23,", Bunnicula?
How, pray tell, do you cut and paste from YOUR television set?
posted on November 24, 2000 12:36:40 PM
Silly. I just said that I didn't add the term.
Go look: Bush Watch is a daily political internet magazine, a non-advocacy site paid for and edited by Politex, a non-affiliated U.S. citizen.
posted on November 24, 2000 12:47:25 PMkrs:No, I didn't insert that word, and I've already given the source of reports when asked by Joice, I believe, in another thread.
Well, actually, krs, I can find no answer from you to Joice on this matter. Nor to anyone else. But perhaps you can tell us in what post to what thread?
Oh, did you miss ""On ABC World News Tonight on Thursday, Nov. 23,", Bunnicula?
No, I didn't.
How, pray tell, do you cut and paste from YOUR television set?
Why, it's simple, krs. You just go to www.abcnews.com. They print their news reports there. I did a search--*no* stories featuring the word "brownshirts" came up. If you didn't insert that word, please tell us the source of it.
posted on November 24, 2000 12:48:01 PM
TSK. You're not always so snippy, uaru, but here's the entire page:
BUSH BROWNSHIRTS TARGET BROWARD COUNTY TODAY
<"One of the issues the Gore team raised in its failed attempt to keep Miami-Dade counting was the contentious atmosphere around the local canvassing board as it
tried to do its work. ABCNEWS has learned that a strenuous, seemingly spontaneous public demonstration against the recount Wednesday in Miami-Dade — which
contributed to one canvassing board member’s vote in the 3-0 decision to quit recounting — was actually organized by the Republican Party, which bused supporters
in from out of town. The Republicans had argued that Democratic officials were trying to take ballots behind closed doors. On World News Tonight Thursday,
ABCNEWS reporter Bill Redeker found a motor home where Republican operatives were conducting a “media operation” that turned out to be direct involvement in
the protest. That mobile home has now moved up to Broward County, he said on Good Morning America today. “If citizens of the United States are voluntarily objecting to the process
where the rules change, and where Democratic officials take these ballots behind closed doors where they can’t be observers, I think American citizens are entitled to do that sort of
thing,” [Bush lawyer Theodore] Olson said." --ABC
BUSH BROWNSHIRTS TAKE OVER FLORIDA ELECTION
Two Bush Watchers Report That ABC Has Confirmed Our Previous Reports..."On ABC World News Tonight on Thursday, Nov. 23, there was a story about the Miami-Dade
protest [prior to the Miami-Dade decision to stop counting altogether, losing Al Gore an estimated bulge of 2,000 votes over Bush.] It was not so spontaneous, but maybe the planned
work of a Bush group, whose operations were centered in a nearby motorhome. Bush Raiders or something like that. They appeared from out of town so when a reporter asked one of
them where they were from another person told them to not say. They were ostensibly there to "help the media". Anyway when the protest was over and the near riot panicked the
canvassing board into quitting, the group drove away."..... "That RightWing Dittohead riot down in Miami was PLANNED ! It was a GOOPER Dirty Tricksters operation. The majority
of those people banging on the doors and walls were from outside of Florida. They also uncovered a mobile HQ for the operation, a motorhome parked out in the parking lot filled with
tons of electronic equipment and Bushie brownshirts." 11/24/00
MIAMI-DADE STOPPED COUNTING BECAUSE OF ACTUAL PHYSICAL VIOLENCE"The subsequent demonstrations turned violent on Wednesday after the canvassers
had decided to close the recount to the public [because of fears of physical violence.] Joe Geller, chairman of the Miami-Dade Democratic Party, was escorted to safety by the police
after a crowd chased him down and accused him of stealing a ballot. Upstairs in the Clark center, several people were trampled, punched or kicked when protesters tried to rush the
doors outside the office of the Miami-Dade supervisor of elections. Sheriff's deputies restored order. When the ruckus was over, the protesters had what they had wanted: a unanimous
vote by the board to call off the hand counting." --NYT, 11/24/00
posted on November 24, 2000 12:55:51 PM
Bunnicula,
As I said, I've given the source of all of these trports to Joice in another thread. I'm not going to hold your hand for you.
You asked about the source of the news reports, and those are referenced within the reports as was NYT, ABC, and many others.
You asked another question about the word brownshirts, claiming that I said that that word was contained in any news report. I'll ask you to show where it was that I said that, and while you're at it, show where I said that I added it, and please indicate anything else which has brought you to mistakedly put words into my mouth.
Personally I'd find more accurate and unbaised reporting at the checkout counter of my grocery store with titles like "Farmer shoots 75 lb grasshopper"
Here I was getting my information from ABC, Reuters, Associated Press, CNN, etc. and I find out I'm missing out on the really nitty gritty stories. LMAO!!!
posted on November 24, 2000 01:06:52 PM
Ah. After I posted I saw your post on *where* you got your info, krs
Just a couple of points:
1) I would have been nice if you had, in your original post, told us this. Instead, you mad eit appear that you were quoted national news sources. Why not just say "I got this from Bush Watch"?
2) an "unaffiliated," "non-advocacy" site would *not* be using terms like "brownshirts" and "Bushie brownshirts." While it does give links to "anti-Gore" sites, none of the ones I peeked into had anywhere near "brownshirt"-type rhetoric.
posted on November 24, 2000 01:11:25 PM
No doubt you'd prefer this one, uaru: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/3750/gore.htm compiled by the same person, who incidentally does the very same thing about a host of subjects and personalities in the news with the aim of digging out the truth behind what the major monied sources provide.
Where you got the idea that your sources are the final arbiter of truthfulness is a source of wonder to me. I won't laugh, as you so often do, but it does amaze me that anyone believes in blind faith what they see in newspapers or on television as though it is impossible that those sources could have any editorial slant. Do you have favorite announcers too? Bet you believe one weatherman over all others, eh?
posted on November 24, 2000 01:25:29 PM
I suppose that you find the word "goon" preferable? I think that one was used in a New York Times report.
It would be nice, and I DID say that much of these posts come from bushwatch. It really isn't my failing that you can't find where I said it, now is it?
I'm sure that if Gore did employ brownshirt tactics as the republican party evidently has done, Mr. Politek would use similar phrasing. He does not seem to care for any of the candidates, but he does object to activities that he finds outragious. I've talked with him via email and am impressed by his singleminded pursuits of truth in all of this. He uses the mainline news sources but he is not suffering any illusion that they are not each operating under their own peculiar slants. Very often, the same incident is reported one way by rueters, another by ap, yey another by NYT, and another by WP. Jerry Politek spends his time trying to cut through the muddied up stuff.
And , hey! If Brownshirt tactics are used, then brownshirts use them. We all know by whom and where the term originated, but that doesn't mean that using the term means that that guy's shirts are doing the thing.
posted on November 24, 2000 01:26:50 PM"Where you got the idea that your sources are the final arbiter of truthfulness is a source of wonder to me. I won't laugh, as you so often do, but it does amaze me that anyone believes in blind faith what they see in newspapers or on television as though it is impossible that those sources could have any editorial slant."
gee, I never realized that a news service could use the term 'brownshirts' and it be simply viewed as an 'editorial slant' in a news story. Maybe it would be better if you posted the article as an editorial instead of trying to pass it off as a news story. I can't explain how I choose my sources, but I'll decline on that geocities site as one I'll be offering as my source of information.
posted on November 24, 2000 01:27:13 PMKen, I really think that, in the future you should submit your posts to the editorial board for review and editing before you actually make them. It really would save wear and tear on the keyboards of some folks (whose contributions seem more editorially than content-directed) and might even result in higher comprehension levels. I am sorry to tell you, however, that my great aunt Fanny will be unable to serve on this editorial board. Even she could have read your first post to this thread and clearly understood that neither the ABC news organization, nor any of its televised reports, were being quoted (but only referenced in a quote you posted from another source).
I'd cite my source, but great aunt Fanny gets cranky when I tell people her age.
posted on November 24, 2000 01:31:56 PMkrs:Bunnicula, As I said, I've given the source of all of these trports to Joice in another thread. I'm not going to hold your hand for you.
OK, krs. Having gotten the info that you were posting stuff from "Bush Watch" at the start of this thread, I went back and did a site seach using the words "bush" and "watch." Cripes, krs! Your reply to joice was back on November 11! Certainly had nothing to do with *this* thread, as you managed to imply.
So must we take it now that you post *nothing* that doesn't come from this Bush Watch site?
You asked about the source of the news reports, and those are referenced within the reports as was NYT, ABC, and many others.
And your post was done in such a way as to imply that *ABC* had used the term "brownshirts." Very nice, krs
You asked another question about the word brownshirts, claiming that I said that that word was contained in any news report. I'll ask you to show where it was that I said that,
from your first post to this thread & purportedly from ABC:
They also uncovered a mobile HQ for the operation, a motorhome parked out in the parking lot filled with tons of electronic equipment and Bushie brownshirts." 11/24/00
and while you're at it, show where I said that I added it, and please indicate anything else which has brought you to mistakedly put words into my mouth.
from your 11:40 am post, telling us that you make changes to news reports--thereby causing us to ask where the term "brownshirts" had actually come from:
I do sometimes make changes or deletions so as to remain within the editorial constraints of common copyright provisions, but those are in the service of an easier understanding by all parties with interest. It has been my experience that certain members, most particularly certain members who express republican leanings, would be in need of such assistance.
The term "Brownshirts" might well be easily understood by those members, and even be seen as a source of pride in unity, wouldn't you agree?
------Uh, those two paragraphs make *no* mention of Bush Watch at all. They imply that *you* inserted the word...and any other changes you might have cared to make.
All-in-all, this thread makes anything you post regarding politics & the election questionable.
"but I'll decline on that geocities site as one I'll be offering as my source of information."
Really a small loss there, as I cannot recall you ever having offered any site or source for your banalities and guffaws. you seem quite content to claim those as your own and because you do, I cannot understand how you can find it within yourself not to allow me that same choice.
posted on November 24, 2000 01:39:42 PM
The U.S. Supreme Court has decided to become involved. They seem to be willing to consider the charge that the Florida Supreme Court may have indeed "overreached" as the Republicans have alleged.
