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Perspective...
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The Declaration of Independence: 1,300 words.
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posted on November 29, 2000 07:33:32 AM
I can understand Gore's frustration. To work all your life and fall short by one thousandth of one percent has to be hard to accept but at some point it's time to accept it though. His speech and appearance seem to be showing signs of the frustrations.
I wonder if the US supreme court will decide the Florida supreme court was out of line. More importantly it seems that Judge Sauls seems to be a no nonsense 'good ol boy' and I think he's going to be hard to sway with smoke and mirrors.
posted on November 29, 2000 09:24:44 AM
uaru, I'm not sure what the whole point of continuing with the Supreme Court case really means. So Bush wants to throw out the manual recounts. Either way the Court rules, what difference is it going to make? The Florida legislature is going ahead with their plan to make an end run around the Courts, and go ahead and appoint their own set of Republican electors. It seems to me that no matter what Court rules on what issue, if the Florida legislature passes either a "resolution" (that needs to be signed by Jeb Bush) or an actual "bill" (doesn't need to be signed by Jeb Bush, letting him off the hook politically), they will in effect cut off any challenges. It stinks, it's corrupt, and it DEFINITELY is not democracy. But then I wouldn't expect anything less from George W. Bush. This man will do anything, including thwarting the democratic process to win. He has no character, no honor, and apparently ANY ends will justify the means if it will get him into office, including destroying his own brother's political career. But then his dad is the one behind it all, and don't forget he is ex-CIA. He's probably used to "sacrificing" people.
posted on November 29, 2000 09:34:45 AM
Hi KatyD...
The way I understand it, if nothing is resolved in the courts by the 12th, this could prevent Florida from losing it's 25 electoral votes and, in essence, disenfranchising the whole state. Theoretically, there would be 2 slates of electors and it would end up in the US Congress for resolution. Used for any other reason, it would stink, IMO.
posted on November 29, 2000 10:28:55 AM"don't forget he is ex-CIA"
I didn't realize that had any bearing on this but yes, George Bush was head of the CIA at one time.
Sometimes history gets drawn into this election for some strange effects. I swallowed my gum when Jessie Jackson made mention of the holocaust survivors in Palm Beach county having their votes being blocked. I wish the news would cover Jessie more, he's such an entertaining... errrrrr statesman.
posted on November 29, 2000 10:54:15 AM
Hi Toke, the way I see it, the whole state is already being disenfranchised, or the majority anyway. I'm not comfortable with the way the votes were tallied, it was too close a vote NOT to do manual recounts. But that aside, the actions of the Florida Republican legislators regarding calling a special session were being planned last week BEFORE the US Supreme Court agreed to hear the Republican petition to throw out the manual recount, and AFTER the ruling was handed down by the Florida Supreme Court. They planned it as an end run around the Florida Supreme Court ruling, in the event that Miami-Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach were able to conclude their counts, and the tally showed Gore in the lead. I'm not saying that what they're doing is illegal, but I'm saying it's wrong and undemocratic. And it's sets a VERY scary precedent. Once they do this, what is to keep any legislative majority from enacting legislation to "appoint" their own electors to determine the outcome of any close election in the future? This being either Democrats or Republicans. It sets a very scary precedent, in that it takes away the PUBLIC vote from the electors and gives it to the legislature. And if they do this, that is what they will be doing in Florida, because remember that the act of APPOINTING those electors actually makes null the votes those electors from either the Republican or Democratic parties received in the Nov. election. Those electors may or MAY NOT be the same electors who would have been delegates to the Electoral College EVEN IF Bush had received a clear victory in the Florida election. It is very convoluted, but it is the final step of taking the vote away from the Florida voters. It's all in the fine print, and frankly, it scares the crap out of me. I just never thought I'd see the day in this country, that extreme partisan politics would affect our democratic process.
posted on November 29, 2000 01:52:58 PM
George W's father was head of the CIA, but what colors George W's team is more than that.
Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, Ronald Reagan, George Bush, all their administrations shared some of the same central figures. Colin Powell for president? Great, and let's get some more of the usual suspects in there too - Andrew Card, Dick Cheney, George Schultz, James Baker, Lawrence Eagleburger, etc. etc. We can get Alexander Haig in there too, so just in case Cheney has another heart attach, ol' Al can jump up and say he's in charge.
When you vote for someone for Republican president, you don't vote for that person, you're voting for this same circle, over and over again. A few names get added, a few names drop out, but it's the same basic group.
These are the same guys most of us didn't like last time they came around. They just stick a new figurehead on top, and run the group again.
posted on November 29, 2000 02:31:08 PM
Amen, donny, and what you say has been abundantly clear the last few days. In case anyone out there is under the illusion that this is GW's gig, Dick Cheney's sure been busy. Hasn't anyone wondered that it's CHENEY holding the press conferences, CHENEY "leading" the "transition" team, CHENEY making the public speeches and statements. For chrissakes, he just had a heart attack! And where is GW? Hiding out at the ranch. Oh there's no mistake of who is head honcho in THAT outfit.
posted on November 29, 2000 02:33:41 PM
And wasn't GW promising to bring fresh new blood to Washington if he was elected? HA! What y'all are gonna get is "reaganomics" (also called voodoo economics) and read my lips, "no new taxes". HA!
posted on November 29, 2000 02:37:32 PM
Well what he needs is a Secreetarry of Speeling! Won't do him no good if he can pronounce it but cain't speel it! Maybe he can recruit krs.
posted on November 29, 2000 03:18:51 PM
Katy, Donny, and all.
This is what has sruck me from even before the election, and is why I posted alluding to the names which surround all of the Bushmen, particularly Neil.
I've read a great deal concerning the Kennedy assasination and was outraged that such an thing was most likely engineered in cooperation between many of the same people whose names appear in the Watergate investigative reporting. Names that go to the Bay of Pigs. And names that go to the CIA as long ago as when the older Bush was director of that agency.
To me it's too much to lay off as coincidence that at least one of those names appears in the controversy over this election. The name Suarez, who was convicted of voter fraud in M-D, is now wishing to be the new Florida commissioner of elections (or whatever they call it) is deep in the middle of the current M-D fiasco, and is connected, at least through association, with members of the so-called 'Cuban Mafia' which is largely made up of the same bunch of people who were organizers of the Bay of Pigs invasion under the direct control of, and trained and provisioned by, the CIA.
posted on November 29, 2000 03:49:09 PM
Everyone...
I can't help but admire your fortitude in the face of your Gore. Having never been a partisan...I find it educational. I feel activism coming on. Or...maybe not. This stuff is very scary to me... How can you support either one of these egomaniacs?????
posted on November 29, 2000 06:15:53 PM
Yup, Femme, all over again.
On my part, it's not partisanship, just history. I'm not a Gore supporter. Some people say George W wants to get rid of abortions, some people say Gore wants to get rid of internet porn. While I don't envision desiring either internet porn or an abortion in the near future, if I had to declare which I'd probably be most likely to go for, for myself, I guess I'd go for the internet porn, being a bit long in the tooth (or whatever) to desire an abortion. If I judged on that basis, George W would be my choice, (not to mention that Tipper Gore as first lady would surely get Frank Zappa to turning over in his grave.)
From a different point of view, maybe the choice in this year's election was between the devils you know and the other devils you know. For me, it would have to take a pretty devlish crew to get me to vote for yet another Nixon cabinet reconstitution. Ford, Reagan, and Bush's administrations were just rehashed and remixed versions of this same Nixon gang ccdw , and George W's already got the same crew in and he's not even president yet.
Is that partisanship? I just didn't like Nixon, and still don't like his cronies. Even Eisenhower didn't like Nixon.
posted on November 29, 2000 06:24:23 PMEven Eisenhower didn't like Nixon. Yeah, but he let his grandson marry one of his (Nixon's) daughters. Oh wait! Maybe he was dead by then!
posted on November 29, 2000 06:55:49 PM
Maybe he wished he was dead by then, but he was still around. It probably didn't improve his health any though, he died not long after.
posted on November 29, 2000 08:13:33 PM
Very interesting, all the Bush bashing. "He has no character, no honor, and apparently ANY ends will justify the means if it will get him into office" I coulda swore you were talking about that slimeball Clinton. He made a disgrace out of our country, I am sure that we can live with Bush for 4 years.
posted on November 29, 2000 08:29:52 PM
Snowydays, That is one of the things I am most tired of hearing about Clinton. He did not disgrace our country. The republicans that wouldn't quit until they could find something-anything on him disgraced our country. From the day he took office they tried and tried to dig up dirt on the Clintons. In the end the only thing - the only thing that held any water was the Monica affair! Who ever heard of trying to impeach a President for having sex?!!!It only cost the taxpayers lets see 50 million dollars + to have them dig that up! Lots of Presidents had affairs while serving as president. He's not the first [but maybe the last] .
Clinton is no more "slimeball"y than anyone else. Perhaps less so if that is all they could pin on him.
I am non-partisan. But this time around I think Bush is slimey. JMHO. You have yours, I have mine.
posted on November 29, 2000 08:31:26 PM
heh, Julesy! Personally, I kinda wish Clinton could stick around another term. He was a terrific President. Luckily, in about 4 years will have another Clinton in the White House, unless Hillary takes back her maiden name. Madam President. I can't wait! Wish they'd start printing the yard signs now. I'd like to put one up!
posted on November 29, 2000 08:44:39 PM
Hi KatyD --
That yard sign wouldn't last 30 minutes in your neighborhood I bet! I can't wait to see how Hillary does...I have no doubt she will shake things up.
I'm gonna miss the heck outta Clinton, too. Although I don't agree with all of his opinions, I admire anyone who stands up to a bunch of hypocritical bullies. Not only did he weather their attacks; he also flourished as a leader and obviously grew as a person. And it drives the rightwingers nuts, to boot, which is always a good thing.
ubb thingys
[ edited by Julesy on Nov 29, 2000 08:45 PM ]
posted on November 29, 2000 09:00:55 PM
Mind if I jump in to the mud?
I voted for all the republicans Donny mentioned...hmmm. Does this make me bad? Does it make my opinion worth less than someone elses?
I think that Bush is doing the right thing. When a child is throwing a temper tantrum..a good thing to do is leave the room til the fit is over.(Thus he goes to Ranch).
It makes me feel a lot more comfy that he is surrounding himself with elder Republican statesmen.
Now for Gore..it has been expressed in several areas(besides Rush! ..that Gore has distanced himself from even fellow democrats..that they really don't like the guy.
I hear Gore saying 'I'm sleeping like a baby..this doesn't affect that at all.'(on news tonight)..and I wonder if I'm the only one STRESSED over all this stuff?
I could accept his 'every vote' if he hadn't picked only certain districts. And his offer to do the entire state is not Gore's to offer.
But a real thorn in my side is how he has treated the military. How lawyers sent that 5 page memo on how to disqualify the military vote.(Yes, only the military was targeted...no memo was sent out on how to disqualify Israel absentee ballots as they are pro Gore).
Gore repeatedly, over and over, 'Let every vote count!'...except the military. I know he went to a cushy job in Viet Nam..but Clinton was a draft dodger! Both don't like the military..and yet send them out over and over again.
And my own daughter couldn't vote in her FIRST election. Why? Because where she filled out the registration didn't turn it in! She didn't march down to the courthouse and demand to be registered. She didn't call up the congressman and complain about being disenfranchised. She sulked a bit..and went on with her life. Doesn't her voice/vote count too? She intended to vote. Certainly the military and my daughter's vote is as important as an 'intended' dimple ballot.
Katy D...you and I totally agree! Only I see Al Gore as the monster you describe GW! It is Gore that scares me to death.
Isn't it neat how in America we can see things sooo differently and not be killed or tossed in prison to die? I guess that is what makes America great.
posted on November 29, 2000 09:13:38 PM
Electing from a choice of women should be easy enough. Bad makeup is a sure indicator of bad politics.
If nothing else, Kathleen Harris has taught that to the country.
I didn't realize that had any bearing on this but yes, George Bush was head of the CIA at one time.
I can't wait to see how Hillary does...I have no doubt she will shake things up.