krs
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posted on December 12, 2000 07:34:38 AM
You probably don't want to hear it, and wish the issue were just swept away, or under the rug, and oh sure we all know that votes are lost, problems arise, people screw up, but whatever you might prefer the election day in Florida this year might just as well have been Nov. 7, 1964.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A57603-2000Dec11.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A57510-2000Dec11.html
http://asia.dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/world/afp/article.html?s=asia/headlines/001212/world/afp/Predictions_of_unrest__victory_abound_after_court_hearing.html
http://www.tnr.com/121800/isenberg121800.html
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Shoshanah
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posted on December 12, 2000 08:30:51 AM
Thanks, krs...Man! These articles jolted me far more than my first cup of coffee, this morning!...
I do realize than there is always room for discretion, as to how much to believe or reject. Yet, generally, where there is smoke, there is fire, etc...I am not such an idealist that I am starry-eyed about the party of my choice, but due to this year's events the other party is not making points with me. Anyway, thank you for posting these.
********************
Gosh Shosh!
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/rifkah/
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networker67
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posted on December 12, 2000 09:10:22 AM
KRS - Interesting articles from the mainstream media that so many feel is the indicator of "TRUTH". One thing for sure if Gore manages to win at the Supreme. He will have a hard time trying to avoid the fact that he won on the Black Vote. Which I think the party itself is scared of the potential liability of that.
And if he loses and the Bush African American Lead Foreign policy team manages to give us Peace in the Middle East and return us to the mineral riches of the Congo. The Democrats might have screwed around and given the Republican Party a foothold into the Black Vote that they haven't had since Eisenhower. And with the changes into how hispanics are counted in the US Population there isn't a minority to help democrats get over the hump.
Strange thing the disenfranchisement of Blacks in Florida might actually lead to the shifting of the same to the party. All because the democrats don't want to carry the mantle that Blacks gave us the White House. Funny thing about that closet racism in America sometimes it causes you to make bad tactical errors. Gore was given a roadmap on how to use the issue and appease the vote without losing the Whites and choose to hang it all on chads/dimples because of the miscalculation of what the high court would do.
He was told in mid-November that the high court would get involved but his trusted advisors said that would not happen. Where did he get those advisors from that they came up with that is beyond me. Given the parties reluctance to give the ballots faces. Is attributed to not wanting that sense of a debt to those faces. I guess he's getting what he deserves. I guess he forgot that a lot of us during the past eight years grew economically too. In fact some of us grew so much that we only vote democratic so we can enjoy a beer in our favorite African American hangouts and not be banned for voting republican.
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mrpotatoheadd
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posted on December 12, 2000 09:30:53 AM
Excerpt from link below:
Drug war cost Al Gore 15,914 votes in Florida, and perhaps the presidency
According to a recent study on disenfranchisement laws, Gore would have won 15,914 more votes in Florida -- and perhaps captured the presidency -- if nonviolent drug offenders had been able to vote on November 7...
What made the 'Drug War disenfranchisement' so devastating for Gore, rather than Bush, Dasbach explained, is the demographics of the Drug War.
"African-Americans are five times more likely than whites to be sent to prison for drug violations, according to the Justice Policy Institute," he said. "Blacks are also far more likely to have voted for Gore; in fact exit polls showed that 93 percent of blacks did so. So preventing drug offenders from voting siphoned far more prospective votes from Gore than from Bush.
http://www.lp.org/press/archive.php?function=view&record=169
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gibsongal
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posted on December 12, 2000 10:10:01 AM
This country needs to see a return of the good old Conservative Democrats from earlier in the last century.
Beverly
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eyeguy6
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posted on December 12, 2000 10:11:05 AM
Since we're on the race issue thought I'd throw my two cents in. There are two groups of people that really upset me. Group #1 assumes that there is no longer any discrimination in this country. Group #2 assumes that anything that happens to them is a result of racism. Both are quite obviously incorrect.
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CleverGirl
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posted on December 12, 2000 02:38:41 PM
Gibsongal
Two things I've got to say about your yearning for old-fashioned Conservative Democrats.
First, as far as I'm concerned, that's pretty much a euphemism for southern racist.
Second, if the current flock of "New" Democrats leaned any further right, they'd land to the right of Tom DeLay and Trent Lott. Or to put it another way, as one prominent still-somewhat-liberal Dem said (and I wish I could remember who), "The only Republican I ever voted for was Bill Clinton."
Give me a break. "Conservative Democrat" former Senator Sam Nunn voted with Reagan more than some Republicans did.
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gibsongal
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posted on December 13, 2000 07:43:16 AM
Oh come on now. We are ALL rascist in one form or other. Some of us are willing to admit it. What's wrong with being human? And to quote ME (the only one that matters), "The only democrat (albeit former) I ever voted for was George Wallace".
Beverly
[ edited by gibsongal on Dec 13, 2000 07:46 AM ]
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stockticker
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posted on December 13, 2000 07:56:20 AM
That sounds like Manny speaking, rather than Beverly...
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CleverGirl
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posted on December 13, 2000 09:12:03 AM
"The only democrat (albeit former) I ever voted for was George Wallace".
Well that sure makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.
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gibsongal
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posted on December 14, 2000 04:46:01 AM
It IS Manny. We're one and the same. When y'all gonna figure that out?
Beverly
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stockticker
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posted on December 14, 2000 05:41:03 AM
Manny: Didn't you post somewhere that Mark had banned you from AW (in early 1999?). Of course, that was before my time.
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sgtmike
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posted on December 14, 2000 07:52:34 AM
"We are ALL racist in one form or other."
This statement is a prime example of someone engaging in reckless liberty of accusing (all) others of beliefs and practices that the writer may hold and do.
Most people may have prejudices, but having prejudices is not synonymous with racism and bigotry.
[ edited by sgtmike on Dec 14, 2000 07:53 AM ]
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networker67
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posted on December 14, 2000 03:31:42 PM
sgtmike - that was well said.
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gibsongal
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posted on December 15, 2000 10:34:34 AM
Oh, 'Sargent', there you go right off proving my point. It's obvious that you are already prejudiced against me, just because I'm a black female.
Beverly
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networker67
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posted on December 15, 2000 11:16:20 AM
gibsongal - You really missed me with that last post. Let's see here I am supposed to beleive that you are a Black Female who voted for George Wallace.
Was it drugs or alcohol that caused that vote. Or are you the first victim of the voteamatic not properly recording your vote.
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networker67
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posted on December 15, 2000 11:16:21 AM
gibsongal - You really missed me with that last post. Let's see here I am supposed to beleive that you are a Black Female who voted for George Wallace.
Was it drugs or alcohol that caused that vote. Or are you the first victim of the voteamatic not properly recording your vote.
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shop4shoes
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posted on December 15, 2000 12:17:04 PM
I am so tired of Jesse Jackson and his cronies screaming about blacks being disenfranchised and their votes were undercounted more than whites.
In the first article:
In Jacksonville, first-time voter Ernest Lewis's pride at casting his first ballot turned to distress when he learned that published instructions to vote for a candidate on every page of ballot that listed candidates on consecutive pages caused him to vote twice in the presidential race. He had invalidated his ballot
He screwed up. Not the system, not the machine, him. Blacks are being portrayed as simple minded people that can't follow directions or need special help to follow them. That offends me. Everyone has an equal chance to read and follow the directions. They are not that difficult.
Complaints about widespread voting irregularities in Florida have been most acute among black voters--who went to the polls in Florida in record numbers on Election Day--who contend they were cheated out of their franchise by a combination of forces, including outdated voting machines, understaffed polling places, inexperienced poll workers, intimidation by police checkpoints near voting precincts, and confusion that left some registered voters' names off the books.
1) Outdated voting machines affected lots of races, not just blacks.
2) I have never been to a polling place that had lots of staff.
3) Inexperienced poll workers are everywhere.
4) I am out on the checkpoint issue. I know that the deputies violated Florida law by setting them up without notice. I also know that Florida police officers have been told to conserve gas and that many cites are now using checkpoints rather than chasing traffic violators.
5) Confusion left registered voters of all races off the books.
The thing that eats me up the most is the bull about the "confusing" ballot in Palm Beach county. My dad lives in Palm beach county. I asked him could a person of average intelligence fill out that ballot correctly. His answer was: "a person of below average intelligence could have filled it out if they read the instructions". My dad is a die hard liberal democart.
Yesterday a young lady that attends college in Virginia was shopping in my store. The discussion turned to polictics. She mentioned that her area of Virginia had a ballot like the one in Palm Beach county. She did not understand the uproar in Florida. No one complained in Virgina. I told her that members of the democratic party called up registered democratic voters in Palm Beach County and urged them to complain about the ballot.
I won't speculate on what percentage of blacks vote for the republican party. I will say this: Women of all races vote for republicans more than most suspect. I polled 137 of my female customers, employees and friends. I was a little surprised by the results. I am in Gainesville Florida and located not to far from the university of Florida. Nearly everyone surveyed was a college student.
Buchanen: 3
Bush: 64
Gore:12
Nader:47
Would not tell: 11
Buchanen: White: 3
Bush: White: 38 Black: 10 Hispanic: 14 Asian: 2
Gore: White: 2 Black: 10
Nader: White: 45 Black: 1 Other: 1
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stockticker
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posted on December 15, 2000 12:27:24 PM
(Pssst Networker67 - Manny has a multi-personality disorder. I am quite sure he must have a personality somewhere in his head that would have voted for George Wallace, but I am quite sure it wouldn't be Beverly. Beverly has always seems very nice from what I've read.... I'm cheering for Beverly to become the dominent personality when Manny starts integrating his various characters.)
Irene
[ edited by stockticker on Dec 15, 2000 12:35 PM ]
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Linda_K
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posted on December 15, 2000 01:15:06 PM
LOL @ stocktickers answer to networker.
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stockticker
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posted on December 15, 2000 01:19:22 PM
(Of course, I could be wrong. There is always the possibility that Manny's is using his girlfriend Beverly's AW ID without her knowledge or permission. Naaa, that can't be right - that would be against the CG's.)
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mrpotatoheadd
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posted on December 15, 2000 01:26:39 PM
Oh come on now. We are ALL rascist in one form or other.
You mean to tell me there are people in this country whose mothers failed to point out to them long before they got out of grade school that the "But everybody else is doing it!" whine is not a good excuse?
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krs
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posted on December 15, 2000 02:48:13 PM
I can hear it now:
"I'm not a racist, but I'm predjudiced against you, so would you get your _____ butt outa' my barbershop!"
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gibsongal
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posted on December 19, 2000 10:26:30 AM
I AM 'Beverly' and I AM 'Manny'. I've tried to tell all of you auction chat board people for YEARS now that you can't believe ANYTHING you read. 'Beverly' always sounded really nice and so sincere because that's what I wanted you to think. If you like you can put it to a vote. Would you rather I tease you as 'Beverly' or as 'Manny'? Do you want me to come back as TR or TRWW or MSMATE or any number of others I used in the past on various boards? It's up to you, my admiring public.
Beverly
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stockticker
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posted on December 19, 2000 10:34:55 AM
Yes, come back as TR. (Manny, I don't think you're caable of writing those types of long poetic posts.)
Irene
(Just like I'm not able to post more than a sentence without having to go back to edit for typos {{sigh}})
[ edited by stockticker on Dec 19, 2000 10:51 AM ]
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krs
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posted on December 19, 2000 01:36:14 PM
What is caable?
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stockticker
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posted on December 19, 2000 01:43:14 PM
{{ sigh }} that should read capable... All I want for Christmas is an AW spell checker.
Irene
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jamesoblivion
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posted on December 19, 2000 01:50:01 PM
That was perfect.
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