posted on February 21, 2001 07:35:44 AM new
The FBI agent accused of spying for Russia for 15 years provided the Russians information that has been purported to have "gravely" damaged US security and was responsible for death sentences of, it is alleged, three Russian double agents.
You can be sure that Russia shared much of the information with other countries.
If the agent is found guilty, what should his sentence be?
I opt for a death sentence by a military firing squad, highly publicized with much pomp and ceremony.
posted on February 21, 2001 07:55:55 AM new
The protocol for military execution by firing squad does not allow for marching bands, and it's pomp and circumstance anyway.
posted on February 21, 2001 08:10:12 AM new
A Republican, a Libertarian, and a Democrat are about to be executed in front of a firing squad. As the final hour approaches, each person to be shot is trying to think of a way to escape his or her inevitable doom.
The Republican is brought first in front of the firing squad. The Republican decides to attempt escape by diverting the attention of the executioners at the final moment, and then running away.
The officer in charge of the execution starts his countdown: "10, 9, 8, ......" Just before the officer reaches "1," the Republican shouts, "FLOOD!" Startled, all of the firing squad members look up from their rifles and turn around searching for the onrush of water. During all of the confusion, the Republican manages escape into nearby woods.
The Libertarian is next to appear before the squad. Seeing the Republican's success, the Libertarian decides to attempt a similar escape. However, the Libertarian knows the executioners will not fall for the "flood' trick again and decides to use another natural disaster.
The officer in charge of the execution starts his countdown: "10, 9, 8, ......" Just before the officer reaches "1," the Libertarian shouts, "HURRICANE!!" Startled, all of the firing squad members (again) look up from their rifles and turn around searching for the onrush of wind. The Libertarian also manages to escape into the nearby woods.
The Democrat is called on next to appear before the squad. Seeing the success of the Republican and Libertarian, the Democrat also decides to attempt a similar escape but knows the executioners will not fall for the "flood' or the "hurricane" diversion again. The Democrat decides to use another natural disaster.
The officer in charge of the execution starts his countdown: "10, 9, 8, ......" Just before the officer reaches "1," the Democrat shouts, "FIRE!!"
posted on February 21, 2001 08:15:39 AM new
There he goes again.
Actually femme, in the U.S. the protocol is determined by the practice extant, which would probably make the 'Washington Post March' more appropriate since that's what they tie the poor slob to to keep him upright.
You were thinking that "stiff as a post" meant what?
posted on February 21, 2001 08:24:34 AM new
I feel for his family. It will be a very long time before they will again feel secure and comfortable, and look forward to the next sunrise...if ever.
They will lose many friends, and the kids will (forever) be ridiculed and ostracized.
The SOB should be shot (just) for what he has done to his family.
posted on February 21, 2001 08:50:43 AM new
I believe it's been quite some time since we've executed a spy, Mike. Ames has not been sentenced to death and that Navy elint guy, Wilson I think his name was, is still alive in some federal prison. In both cases there were agent deaths attributed to their spying activities.
Precedent would suggest that this Hanssen fellow, if convicted, will suffer no worse fate than incarceration. There are at least two factors, though, that may serve to result in a distinct outcome to this case. The new President has not revealed any past reluctance to support the death penalty and the imminent execution of Timothy McVeigh might serve to remove the apparent reluctance to exercize the option at the federal level.
Personally, I'll reserve my opinion in this case until I'm more aware of the details.
posted on February 21, 2001 10:44:55 AM new
My over-riding feeling is also great sympathy for his family. They'll bear the brunt of it, after he's safely tucked away in Leavenworth.
The goverment will seize his property because it was the fruit of his crime, right? He was paid $600,00 according to whatever channel I listened to last night.
His wife stands to lose every material possession she ever had, forced to abruptly live without the spouse she depended on, sudden single parent to their children, no income, no security, publicly humiliated before her family and friends.
posted on February 21, 2001 10:49:24 AM new
While I do understand that money is usually the motivating factor in most crime, I just can't grasp the reason one would betray their country and it's citizens. A traitor to your country, what a horrific label to wear for money. More than
And I too, always think of the families of those who commit crimes and how these type of things will affect their lives forever, in ways we can only imagine.
I wish there were some way very strong examples/penalties could be made with traitors to possibly make others who may be thinking of doing the same thing, take some pause.
But while in other countries he might be drawn and quartered (for just being accused of this crime), he'll be afforded all the rights that he is entitled to, as a US citizen.
posted on February 21, 2001 12:09:30 PM new
Linda_K
Money is certainly the motivating factor in crime. And furthermore,
it is the motivating factor in this country in which an election can
be bought.
Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are secondary.
Since I don't believe in death sentences, I would vote to have this
sumbitch live in poverty for the rest of his life.
There are more important issues to
deal with here other than how to sentence one captured spy.
Helen
[ edited by HJW on Feb 21, 2001 12:13 PM ]
[ edited by HJW on Feb 21, 2001 12:15 PM ]
posted on February 21, 2001 04:54:43 PM new"There are more important issues to deal with here other than how to sentence one captured spy."
Helen:
The uncovering of a spy and the appropriate sentencing, especially what agent Hanssen had access to and sold, is too simplistic. The security of this nation has been compromised. If the officials are (already) indicating the damage is "grave," you can be sure the damage is probably horrendous.
This nation has become too weak and too "bleeding-heart" liberal dealing with criminals and predators. Unrealistic compassion has displaced what is right for the peace and safety of decent people.
Why should my taxes pay for this traitor to live out his life in reasonable comfort, with 3 hots, a cot, and full medical?
posted on February 21, 2001 06:33:24 PM new
SgtMike - I totally agree. We've have become "too weak and too "bleeding-heart" liberal dealing with criminals and predators. Unrealistic compassion has displaced what is right for the peace and safety of decent people."
Traitors to our country and child predators really sicken me.
posted on February 21, 2001 07:05:28 PM new
They ought to put him in that tent prison in, where? Arizona? That sheriff is great. Get this guy out on the chain gang, cleaning up a bit of the country he betrayed.
An S for "spy" branded on his forehead wouldn't be bad either--or is that too medieval
posted on February 21, 2001 07:43:19 PM newIf the officials are (already) indicating the damage is "grave," you can be sure the damage is probably horrendous.
Or you can be sure that Freeh was setting the stage for a conviction. I'm not saying that the damage his alleged crimes caused were not "grave" but I don't think that word was used in lieu of "horrendous".
posted on February 21, 2001 08:41:56 PM new
Sgtmike,
I understand the severity of the charges against Robert Hanssen
and I understand that the security of this country has possibly been seriously compromised.
I don't have compassion or respect for a spy and I don't like the con game that they play. Especially unsavory are traitors with no personal integrity. When I reviewed the other posts on this thread, my opinion is not
unusual.
You infer that a liberal point of view politically will lead to an increased crime rate. That inference cannot be validated.
Education is the best crime fighting tool that we have. Locking people
up or killing them will not make a dent in the crime rate.
You state, "Why should my taxes pay for this traitor to live out his life in reasonable comfort, with 3 hots, a cot, and full medical?"
As long as criminals are locked up, we will have
to feed and take resonable care of them. I don't believe in the death
penalty for several reasons but basically because it is barbaric.
posted on February 21, 2001 08:52:26 PM new
Why does everyone get in an uprour about something like this when you have no firsthand knowlege about it?
You have no idea if it is true or false and there is no way to tell because government has such a history of lies you can't believe ANYTHING that is said.
It simply does not matter what is true because his own agency says so and the courts are not about to gainsay the FBI in public.
So he is dead meat no matter what any of us think. The death penalty sure is a good way to cut off any future debate on the matter.
It would be nice to be able to believe something in the papers but every time I have seen something myself and then read about it in the papers they had it all mixed up. They can't even report a traffic accident and get the players straight.
On complicated political matters you'd have to be a player to know what was fact.
Edited to note: Doesn't matter how guilty or innocent he is either as far as putting him before a firing squad. They would find plenty of volunteers to shot a dozen a day with no
worries about why they were doing it - Hey you the boss. You need 'em shot - Boom.
posted on February 21, 2001 09:06:21 PM new
Who knows if the entire matter is not a publicity ploy cooked up to foster the 'danger from within' mentality that has been endemic in republican politics and philosophy?
There's got to be enemies for there to be any sort of justification, however manufactured, for the buildup of fervor which sends dollars to weapons manufacturers, and this supposed episode is a perfectly timed bit of propaganda to that purpose.
Behind every suspicious statement a terrorist awaits his chance and behind every fluttering venetian blind lurks a spy.
Imagine John Ashcroft as the figurative reincarnation of Joe McCarthy.
posted on February 21, 2001 09:10:21 PM new
The FBI stated that they discovered him because a security audit some months back "determined" that there was a mole. That led to an investigation that led to him.
I'm not going to pre-acquit him, but maybe this "audit" claimed that a hole was found and they simply picked a peg that filled it, as the audit no doubt required?
posted on February 21, 2001 09:15:27 PM new
Unfortunately Helen, the inference you take from sgtmike's statements is no more valid than your belief that education is the key to crime fighting.
Crime exists, and has existed, in every society. No approach to the problem has ever proven entirely effective.
In the view espoused by sgtmike here, and in past threads, at least one can offer the response, albeit simplistic, that the individual executed or incarcerated will no longer be able to commit crimes. I don't believe education advocates would be able to offer as much in evidence.
It is my opinion that barbarity is undeterred by civility. I do agree that the death penalty is barbaric. I don't believe humanity has yet evolved to the point where reason or intellect will serve to suppress the most base of human proclivities. In fact, the imposition of a behavior modification solution to the problem could be viewed as inhumane and tyrannical. "A Clockwork Orange" by Anthony Burgess envisions such a process.
I don't pretend to know the solution.
-to correct author's name. Kubrick did the movie.
[ edited by xardon on Feb 21, 2001 09:23 PM ]
posted on February 21, 2001 09:45:00 PM new
Xardon,
Sgtmike states,
"This nation has become too weak and too "bleeding-heart" liberal dealing with criminals and predators. Unrealistic compassion has displaced what is right for the peace and safety of decent people."
My statement,
"You infer that a liberal point of view politically will lead to an increased crime rate. That inference cannot be validated."
Add to that, my knowledge of Sgtmikes polical posts and it's not
a far fetched inference. But we can ask him.
It's bedtime in Maryland so I'll check for an answer tomorrow.
More than 