posted on March 15, 2001 02:19:13 PM
I've been thinking about this for some time.
A little history:
A relative of mine is adopting a little girl. She is very sweet and very perfect. BUT they were able to "shop around" till they found one [a child] they liked. They were going to adopt a young girl from Russia but when she came for her "trial" visit she was deemed too wild for them. [she jumped on the furniture,peed on the floor-but then it was all new to her ,she'd never seen a toilet and she spoke no english-hard to judge under those circumstances] Anyway back to Russia she went . She was the child of an alcoholic mother so the problems may have been from that or stress - who knows?
My point here is, I think, why are adoptive parents allowed to shop for the perfect child? Shouldn't they just have to take what they get-like having a baby of your own? The next one born is yours ,perfect or not?
posted on March 15, 2001 02:40:43 PMRawbunzel, I agree with you. An adoptive family should not be allowed to shop for the perfect child or children. If they are so desperate to have a child then they will take boy or girl, black or white.
The only thing I feel may be a drawback is if the child is badly retarded, some people could not handle this type of situation and therefore would not make the best parents for a child like this.
You relative is obviously adopting privately to be able to pick and choose. This is a sad time for the world when we can have a child on a trial basis from another country and then when we decide that this child is not up to scratch, we send them back. The poor little thing was probably frightened out of her mind in a strange speaking country with nothing she could relate too.
I wish your relative luck with her new child, but I hope she realises that no child is perfect.
posted on March 15, 2001 03:34:08 PM
Hi Robin - Well, I do believe the adoptive parents should be allowed to choose. Have you ever seen any of the programs on the problems adoptive parents are having with children coming from other countries? It's scary.
The parents who have children themselves, pretty much have the knowledge of past family genetic issues, know how well the pre-natal period went (like did the mother eat properly, visit the doctor, take vitamins, etc.) Like did the mom use drugs, drink, etc. Most are willing to take whatever comes, and accept and love the child they give birth to.
posted on March 15, 2001 04:33:51 PM
I don't know. If you made it a take what ever we offer or take a hike you might put a real
crimp in the number of adoptions. The agencies themselves are already imposing conditions so is it realistic to ask the people adopting to not set any? How many people are that noble that they will take whatever you send me?
posted on March 15, 2001 04:36:20 PM
I can say that it really hurt me to see this sweet little girl brought here ,viewed and then deemed unworthy and sent back.Her best friend from there was adopted in this area so it would have been nice for her. They brought a whole group of children over from this particular orphanage and she was the only one that was not adopted that go round. She was the wildest one.She has since found a home here in the US but the idea of shopping for perfection just struck a raw chord with me. I would have adopted her myself if I had the money. I liked her.
I know not everyone is up to the challenge of retarded or seriously handicapped children. The people who adopt those are special people with big hearts.But really is shopping for children the right way to do it? It used to be that when a baby became available that was the one you got, boy or girl. Now people complain how hard it is to adopt but they themselves seem pretty picky.
Maybe I'm wrong. I dunno, but I feel sorry for those kids.
posted on March 15, 2001 04:40:15 PM
I sort of like that idea of "first one born is yours". Same thing that happens to those who are married and the woman has a child, right? No taking it back for exchange and no choosing. What is, is. Black or white or brown. On the other hand, having the opportunity to choose which child, due to knowing of the background, that is "easier".
What a thought that is. Boggles the mind. Speaking for myself, if I wanted a child bad enough, I think I would take the "first one born is yours". Because thats what I wanted. A child to love. Regardless.
posted on March 15, 2001 04:46:17 PM
Linda_K: I had the exact same thoughts you posted.
On the idea of 'shopping for a kid'...well, I just don't know. I do think that there are a lot of people that just cannot handle 'special needs' (I've always hated that term...all kids have special needs, but anyway....) and that certianly does not make those people 'bad people' or 'lesser people'.
posted on March 15, 2001 04:49:53 PM
Hi Hepburn! Is easier better? If so better for the adults but not the child. The cream of the crop, as it were ,is taken first and the leavings are considered unadoptable or undesirable or at best difficult to place.
When I had my children I took what the lord gave me. No option to send them back if they weren't what I had in mind. Why should adoptive parents be different? Because they are paying for them? Does that make it ok? See I am having a hard time coming to grips with this. It seems to me if you wanted a child you would be less picky....at least as to hair and eye color or sex. So what if you end up with two girls or two boys? That is the chance we all take as mothers.
posted on March 15, 2001 05:04:58 PM
Rawbunzel: I do understand what you are saying about fairness. However, how fair is it to the child to force him/her to grow up in an environment where he/she might be unloved, resented, and perhaps neglected?
posted on March 15, 2001 05:37:54 PM
Well, the good news is that in the case of "disrupted" adoptions such as this one, the second placement usually turns out to be a great fit. That's good for the child, for the adoptive parents, and for the initial set of prospective parents with whom it didn't work out.
I know what you mean, though. It's not like going to the pound and picking out the cutest puppy or the one who seems quietest.
posted on March 15, 2001 05:56:03 PM
Irene, I hear what you say but lots of children born into a family have the same fate. For whatever reason. Most of the time you don't know how you will react to a certain child just by seeing them for a short time. You could be missing out on the experience of your life. Either kind .
I just feel people have become too picky in what they will accept and thus perfectly good children are made to feel unworthy.You never know what any child will be like until they get comfortable with you and can communicate with you.A child who seems perfectly ok as an infant can grow up to be a serial killer. You never know what you are getting if you birth them yourself or not.
posted on March 15, 2001 06:33:46 PM
Growing up I saw a lot of unwanted children. My parents were also foster parents and in the course of my childhood about 30 children lived in my home (1 or 2 at a time). All but one was either unwanted by their birth parents or the birth parents were deemed unfit to take care of them.
It was a different world back then. I remember the social worker telling my mother that it was near impossible to find adoptive parents for any child over 18 months. There simply were not enough couples looking to adopt. The problem was compounded by the fact that the birth mother (at that time) could also demand that the child be raised in a certain religion.
I know where you're coming from; it doesn't feel right to me either.
My friend recently adopted a 7 year old girl who was the oldest of four little girls put up for adoption by an unfit mother. While the adoption agency would have liked the four to be kept together, it didn't work out that way.
The baby was immediately placed; the older three girls went to a foster home. After a few months, the foster parents decided to adopt the younger two of these three and send back the oldest, the 7 year old. The couple didn't want her because they thought she was "too bossy."
This girl is the one my friend took. The little girl still cries at night for her sisters. My friend is trying to get the other couple to agree to some sort of visitation but so far, they have resisted. It's just the saddest situation.
posted on March 15, 2001 07:03:45 PM
Yes Busybiddy! The child that is now my niece is the youngest of 7 children. The oldest still lives with mom but the rest were removed. This baby was taken away at birth.Guess who got adopted first?
Your story tears at my heart strings! That poor little girl.
posted on March 15, 2001 08:06:58 PM
I think it's a good idea to try to match the personality of the child with the parents as much as that's possible to do. At the same time Rawbunzel this situation sounds more like "kicking the tires." It may actually be good for a child to be evaluated for placement but I can't imagine putting any child through that kind of blatant rejection. I think it would have been much kinder if they could have arranged some psychological profiling or evaluations, etc before bringing her home.
And, Busybiddy I can't help but wonder if the "bossy" little girl was only trying to prove her value to her potential parents. I'm imagining this little girl must have been mothering her sisters and the parents interpreting it as bossiness??? Such a shame.
posted on March 16, 2001 05:57:46 AM
Hello mybidness!!
You hit the nail exactly on the head about the little girl. My friend, her husband, and the 7 year old go to counseling to help them all adjust. It seems that the little girl had basically become a mother to the younger girls because the birth mother would leave them home alone for most of the day and then not be a mother when she WAS home. In the foster home, she tried to maintain this role with the younger girls and the foster mother resented her "interference."
I think good agencies DO try to assess the child and potential family to make sure the fit is right before placing the child in the home.
posted on March 16, 2001 09:19:23 AM
"I think good agencies DO try to assess the child and potential family to make sure the fit is right before placing the child in the home."
All respectable agencies do this with older children. Sometimes this process can take more than a year. Also when more then one child is involved, they try to place all the children in the same household. In most cases this does not happen.
Most people do not understand adoptions laws as it pertains to the rights of the adopted children.
Adopted children at age 21 are now able to request, through the state welfare depts in most states to contact their biological families. The contact is made by the welfare dept. should the contact be denied, the request is denied.
Should sister or brother that has been adopted is under age, the adopted parent has the right to deny the request, but when the child reaches legal age, the request is made to the now legal age sibling. Our daughter was denied her first request, the 2nd request went to other siblings who were now of legal age. It took about 3 weeks. All had been adopted.
The biological father of our son did the same thing. In this case our son never wanted to meet his biological father. He later consented. It was the only meeting he had with him.
Children that are adopted should grow up understanding the word adoption. It should not be used to belittle the children or their biological parents.
Both of our children were babies when adopted and were considered by most as unperfect babies, but in our eyes they were just perfect for us.
posted on March 16, 2001 10:10:13 AMFRED!!! So good to 'see' you again.
Do you know if the children from the orphanages in other countries will have this option-to-make-contact-with their birth parents, or not?
There seems to be a need in some adopted children to learn about, or meet their birth parent/(s). Some adoptive parents seem to feel threatened by this, some aren't. Some birth parents don't want to be found or contacted. My feelings are if both birth parent and the adopted child wish to meet, they should be able to do so.
People who open their hearts and their lives and bring a child into their family, are very special in my eyes. Any child.
posted on March 16, 2001 10:21:18 AM
My parents were somewhat selective when adopting. They considered adopting two Native American siblings, one a baby, the other older. My mom said they really fell for the older child, but something just seemed "wrong" with the baby. He was almost completely unresponsive, so they passed on the adoption because the biological mother wanted the two children to be adopted together. Even though it's easy to say, "Well, you should be able to love *any* baby," the truth is that most people just can't do that. In their shoes, I probably would have made the same choice.
And I'm very lucky because they ended up adopting me instead. I don't think I was a "perfect" baby but my mom has said that I didn't have any problems that weren't correctable. I'm still a little odd as an adult but they seem to love me.
posted on March 16, 2001 11:01:09 AM
Today I received this from Tipworld "Ask a Lawyer:"
Q: Is it difficult for lesbians and gays to adopt children?
A: Yes, it is difficult. Florida specifically prohibits lesbians and gay men from adopting children. Connecticut law allows judges to consider the sexual orientation of the adoptive parent in determining whether an adoption should take place. The same is true in other states--even if a state adoption statute does not specifically mention sexual orientation, it may become an issue in court anyway.
On the other hand, many states are allowing gay and lesbian couples to adopt. Beginning with Alaska, joint adoptions by gay and lesbian couples have been granted in California, Colorado, the District of Columbia, Illinois, Indiana, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Texas, Vermont, and Washington.
The National Center for Lesbian Rights provides information for gay men and lesbians who want to adopt.
posted on March 16, 2001 11:26:44 AM
Love is love. Should'nt matter if it is from two women or two men. A child only sees and feels love. Just labels on people, putting a big ugly X on them, when all they want to do is love a child.
posted on March 16, 2001 11:34:46 PM
Hi Linda!
Sorry it took so long to get back to you.
"Do you know if the children from the orphanages in other countries will have this option-to-make-contact-with their birth parents, or not?" In the State of Indiana they have the right to REQUEST CONTACT. The State Welfare Agency will make the contact. Not the child. Should the birth parent or parents refuse contact, it ends.
Each State law may be different. But all States have children adoptive rights in some form. Family Medical history now can be got.
All adoptive parents go through a case study by the State welfare Dept. There are many adoptions refused by the State.
Many children live in Foster homes until legal age, because birth parents will not sign away their parent rights. Not because they are unwanted.
BUT they were able to "shop around" till they found one [a child] they liked. They were going to adopt a young girl from Russia but when she came for her "trial" visit she was deemed too wild for them. [she jumped on the furniture,peed on the floor-but then it was all new to her ,she'd never seen a toilet and she spoke no english-hard to judge under those circumstances] Anyway back to Russia she went . She was the child of an alcoholic mother so the problems may have been from that or stress - who knows?
