posted on April 28, 2001 08:21:26 PM
So what ya gonna do about it?
Actually it makes being a government official or cop much less attractive. There has been a long time being pulled over by the police here was a minor irritation because it was a small fine and maybe you would be late to work. Now people will be worried it may be a chance to be cuffed and roughed up and a trip downtown where you will be thrown in the tank with drunks and perverts for a couple days and possibly raped or beat up. Starts people to wondering if the risk they are facing means it makes more sense to see if they have more firepower than the cop stopping them. Maybe he has not called in the license yet. Pretty soon the routine traffic stop is history - If the risk goes up you will see automatic calls for back up for any stop. Uses up a lot of time and resources. Pretty soon cops are carrying sub-machine guns, and patrol in pairs. A very common sight in other countries. The judges and prosecutors in 3rd world countries
don't wander around in public. They live in walled compounds with guards. If they wander out unescorted they are assasinated. But hey - If that's the way these politicians want to live here that is their choice. The President already lives like that. It can extend down to the county /city level easily.
[ edited by gravid on Apr 28, 2001 08:24 PM ]
posted on April 28, 2001 09:19:55 PM
You know, the election thing is somewhat easy to swallow, 8 years tops, likely 4 years.
However, the custody and jail for a minor violation is extremely problamatic. That decision will be around for decades.
Being jailed for a minor offense is definitely 3rd World dictatorship tactics.
You're absolutely right about what can happen to you in jail too.
I am beginning to wonder a lot about the Waco Texas thing,Ruby Ridge, and now McVeigh's motivation.
I am a lot less likely to refer to these folks as "nuts" now.
We may be faced with a government out of control and an election process so fouled that it is unable to stop it.
Edited to add- I don't think that making the Federal govt weaker in favor of state and local govt is the answer either. I find state and local govt worse than the Feds.
[ edited by reamond on Apr 28, 2001 09:23 PM ]
posted on April 28, 2001 10:20:39 PM
Well, that article about sums up all of the ranting that I've been doing on AW's RT here for the last few months. Anymore, the pleas for "nicer" threads administering "fluff" is nothing more than sticking your head in the sand at some unpleasant thought. When YOU get the "treatment", remember that there was a time when you might've been able to do something, but deceide to let it pass! Thanks a lot for nothing!
posted on April 29, 2001 05:39:08 AM
Well, this confirms the fears I had when I saw the internal checkpoint manned by the Border Patrol go up on the road from Brownsville. Fingerprinting for drivers licenses and to cash a check in the bank it's drawn on.
posted on April 29, 2001 06:09:10 AM
There are some differences between how the government can operate now and 50 years ago.
If internal checkpoints become a common thing citizens will start web sites with reports. Mobile devices are becoming as common as cell phones - some of them are cell phones - and you will be able to log on and make sure there are no roadblocks set up on your route.
With small digital cameras the face of police will be recorded and face recognition software works for citizens also. My next project when we have full high speed wireless coverage in our area this year is to mate a full streaming video camera with a wireless computer and record a full 24 hour back up of all my activities off site so if I am accused of anything I can come up with a full account of where I have been and what I have done. I will wear the camera like a piece of jewelry.
Have I ever been framed for anything? - You bet I have. And the stupid cops did not watch me and try to place the charge at a time I was alone -they picked a random time where I happened to be having dinner with an entire family not my relatives and they were all willing to testify from the little girl to the grandfather that I was there.
posted on April 29, 2001 11:23:16 AM
There actually are some people who become cops to Serve and to Protect us. I have met a few. The rest of them I've met do it "for a living", which is scarey.
Here in Portland, Oregon, you never hear on the national news about any killings by police here. The reason being is that the police have taken great pains to show all of us how quickly they'll waste anyone who shows the least resistance to them. I'm referring to anyone who won't "Get down on the ground!" kind of thing. God forbid that you should have a knife or a club and approach an officer -- that's asking for a closed-casket funeral!
posted on April 29, 2001 11:30:06 AM
Hi Gravid. There's one road from Brownsville (on the Mexican Border) to go north. About 80 miles north, the road is blocked, and you have to go thru what looks like a toll booth. They started it in the late 80s. It's manned by the Border Patrol,who have no sense of humor. They ask "Are you a citizen?". My husband got stopped when he answered "No, I'm from New Jersey." Mistake.
posted on April 29, 2001 11:38:08 AM
Well if you move in on a guy with a gun with a club or knive that does tend to thin the gene pool.
We had some cops here blow away a retarded guy who had a garden rake in his hands. I mean really - they had to shoot to kill a whole bunch of shots from 20 feet away? Is there anyone who can shoot someone in the leg or knee anymore?
Maybe not because there was a cop here who had a car-jacker try to take his car when he was filling up with gas. The cop was at the rear and the car-jacker was standing even with the front of the car. At 8 foot apart they both emptied their guns and neither one managed to hit the other. That is really scary.
posted on April 29, 2001 01:04:28 PM
I think it's a cop-out to say "Cops are bad, I hate cops, they're all on a power trip" without suggesting an effective alternative. I also think it's grossly unfair since I believe there are some cops who are on the job out of a desire to help people and/or to make their communities a better place.
Maybe we'd have a higher quality police force if we paid them more money. Cops face stress and danger on a daily basis -- their lives are on the line anytime they put on the uniform -- yet they generally make the same money as some paper pusher in an office cubicle. We need law enforcement agents. That's a fact. Better pay and benefits might attract better, more qualified candidates to the job.
posted on April 29, 2001 02:15:41 PM
In fact though, across the country police are paid at rates that are higher, in many cases much higher, than are people in jobs which are used to establish industrial pay comparison factors.
In several areas here, the most frequent disqualifying elements are psychological ones, but I do not know if the stringent criteria used are in use generally.
posted on April 29, 2001 02:20:12 PM
I don't think the govt wants more qualified cops.
We had a highly intelligent man locally who took the CS test and scored the highest on record. Police dept refused to even interview him- said he was too smart ! This made the wire news about 3 years ago.
Police depts seem to want to hire people that have a mental challenge in using and understanding abstract concepts such as personal freedom, probable cause, and will react as trained without question.
This may be a little paranoid, but it appears from the direction the supreme court is taking, and our election/political processes, there may be some real challenges to a free society coming from some type of anticipated upheaval or crisis.
I don't know if it will be economic - read as a new type of slavery, or a perceived foreign threat, or panic from new genetic concoctions, or a combination of all. In any event, the powers that be seem intent on giving powers to govt that it was never meant to have.
It also appears that the assualt is coming from both political parties.
The US has always prided itself on having a written constitution, but regardless of what side of the issues one may be on, a written constitution is only as good as those who interpret it.
With that being the case, who gets appointed to the supreme court can make all the difference in the world in maintaing a free society.
posted on April 29, 2001 02:24:34 PM
The pay scale here...
spazmodeous,
Police officers in Montgomery County Maryland
are well paid for what they do...issue traffic tickets.
They must be college graduates so there were
other job choices available to them.
Montgomery County Police
Bargain Union Salary Schedule
Fiscal Year 2001 (July 2, 2000-June 30, 2001)
posted on April 29, 2001 02:36:39 PM
Police are military organizations. I doubt that any active law enforcement employee would argue that aspect. Their uniforms, their training, even their ceremonies are directly derived from those long established in military tradition.
What Reamond described doesn't surprise me at all. Like the military police would prefer untrained personnel so that they could be trained their way. Yes, most are required to have a basic set of credentials, something called POST, or like that, but once employed as recruits they are given specific and locally conducted training in the desired performance of the job where they will be used.
As in the military nothing is left to chance or accident. The training regime, though it may seem pointless and demeaning to the subjects is very carefully designed to produce reactive personnel who will do as expected without question and regardless the stresses.
posted on April 29, 2001 02:42:09 PM
Thanks Helen, I didn't know. Been spacey for longer than I knew.
Now I don't know if he has posted and I did not see it, or if he has a new name, or what. One day I am going to find a loop I can get in. VeryModern Space Junk
posted on April 29, 2001 02:43:43 PM
Oh yeah, and if SgtMike is still around - my lawn is filling in more each day. Planted from seed not sod as he suggested. Thank you. VeryModern Space Junk
posted on April 29, 2001 02:56:01 PMThe American Revolutionary Party (ARP) has declared December 12th as a national day of mourning. American patriots are asked to fly all flags at half-mast to denote the passing of our United States Constitution. It is not known exactly how many Americans will participate in the demostration against the new tranny that has replaced our form of government, but the potential could be staggering.
"There's a lot of Americans that are unhappy about all this," said Dennis Matherson, a retired US Army Officer and spokesperson for the ARP,"I'm not talking about fringe-types that blow up government office buildings, I mean ordinary American citizens are alarmed at the bloodless-coup that toppled our government."
The stated purpose of the ARP is to rally Americans into a grass-roots citizen army that has the expressed intent of marching on Washington D.C. seats of power and arrest all three branches of government and place them on trial for Treason. When asked if this was a bit of nonsense, the office for the ARP mentioned that those citizens of a free nation who will not fight to keep it free do not deserve to live in one.
posted on April 30, 2001 02:12:23 PMHelen: Xardon may be lurking, but he's no longer posting, to the best of my knowledge. I believe he has flown the coop. Unless you're privvy to something that I'm not.
I'm not privy to anything, Muriel.
Just about as lost as anybody can
get, actually.
I just assumed that he was either here or at the "Bay" place. Very Modern may
have thought that I was in an email loop but
I'm not. It's all that I can do to keep up
with what's happening here.
posted on April 30, 2001 03:32:59 PMHelen: I'm glad I'm not the only one lost around here.
X-man did go to that other place for awhile, but has taken a sabbatical from both places. He felt there were better ways of spending his time, and I can't disagree with that!
