opals4u
|
posted on October 17, 2001 09:20:17 AM new
If a site has enough buyers to make it worth selling on in the first place, why can't they make enough off final value fees alone? I think most sellers would prefer paying even higher final value fees than all of these others fees that are paid enven if the item does not sell. This is the only thing that would encourage sites to advertise.
If they don't have enough buyers, then I am not willing to waste my time in the first place. Let alone to pay them to waste my time.
|
eSeller004
|
posted on October 17, 2001 09:55:54 AM new
What do you want? No listing fees and a 10% FVF? Half.com and Amazon Marketplace have no listing fees and a 15% FVF, but they also take care of handling payments. Would that fly on an auction site? These sites need to generate enough income in order to advertise.
|
opals4u
|
posted on October 17, 2001 10:12:26 AM new
eSeller004
If they don't have enough money to go into business then stay out of the business!!
I can see myself putting up an item for sale and then after it is sold tell the buyer that I will see if I can get you one, just send the money and I will see what I can do! Would that be alright with you? SAME DIFFERENCE!
|
AuctionPulse
|
posted on October 17, 2001 10:13:13 AM new
Servers & maintenance, employees, advertising, phone, utility, rent and the list goes on and on…
Also, they are providing a service, even if your item doesn't sell you still get to advertise your auctions.
Auction sites cost a lot of time & money to design and develop. They have to recoup start-up costs a.s.a.p.
[ edited by AuctionPulse on Oct 17, 2001 10:18 AM ]
[ edited by AuctionPulse on Oct 17, 2001 10:20 AM ]
|
opals4u
|
posted on October 17, 2001 10:17:06 AM new
eSeller004
They don't have buyers, but they want you to pay them to list an item. How is that any different than my selling an item that I don't have?
|
opals4u
|
posted on October 17, 2001 10:20:51 AM new
AuctionPulse
If you don't have money for these requirements then you should not be in the business. It takes money to make money, if you don't have that money - then guess what??? If you need investors then offer to sell stock, not charge sellers for something you can not produce!
|
opals4u
|
posted on October 17, 2001 10:27:56 AM new
AuctionPulse wrote:
Also, they are providing a service, even if your item doesn't sell you still get to advertise your auctions.
(((Just how are they advertising the sellers auctions ?? And what good is adverrtising if there are no buyers to see the listings?)))
|
opals4u
|
posted on October 17, 2001 10:31:04 AM new
AuctionPulse wrote:
Auction sites cost a lot of time & money to design and develop. They have to recoup start-up costs a.s.a.p.
((( if they have buyers that are supposed to be seeing these (advertisements?) then why can't they recoup this money from FVF's?)))
|
AuctionPulse
|
posted on October 17, 2001 10:40:16 AM new
I thought this was a question about auction sites in general? So, I don't know who "they" are? But, i.e. Bargain and Haggle is advertising via banners and full page print media. Eventually the buyers will come.
|
opals4u
|
posted on October 17, 2001 10:46:30 AM new
AuctionPulse wrote:
I thought this was a question about auction sites in general?
((( It was in general until you came on with all the excuses, then it became an issue to you. I shall reply individually to each user that tries to explain away the question with remarks that have no valid reasons.))) Except poor planning and management.
|
opals4u
|
posted on October 17, 2001 10:51:29 AM new
AuctionPulse wrote:
But, i.e. Bargain and Haggle is advertising via banners and full page print media. Eventually the buyers will come.
(((Eventually??? Can you prove this statement? I have seen many an auction site close their doors after making similar statements. And just how much are sellers to lose waiting for this to happen, if ever??)))
|
telwil
|
posted on October 17, 2001 10:53:15 AM new
opal, Some honest sites do advertise but some take the extra money and put it in their bank account. I believe in FVF if a site advertises and helps me sell a item they deserve part of what I made because without them advertiseing the buyer would probley never have found me and my item. But some put up a site and think word of mouth should be enof and dont invest in the site or advertiseing just keep what comes in because they are in it for a short time and looking to make as much as they can before they close the door. A site that refuses to advertise has no long time goal and is just looking for a fast score "It is called in & out" the only ones that get stung is the sellers.
|
opals4u
|
posted on October 17, 2001 10:59:43 AM new
telwil
I am ALL for FVF's! But don't think sites should be able to charge and use sellers money for items that do not sell. If they need money for startup advertising this should be a part of the investment out of their pockets, not expect sellers to GIVE them money to help start up their site unless they want to sell stocks.
|
bidsbids
|
posted on October 17, 2001 11:02:18 AM new
Ebay charges hefty listing fees and a FVF and draws revenue from "extras" on the listings. Even with all of those fees they earn a relative small amount of money in relation to the number of outstanding shares. ( any earnings by a dot com is greeted with euphoria by Wall Street ).
Now that was the 800 pound gorrila barely earning money. You expect a non-player auction site to give away almost everything to it's sellers and survive? There are introductory offers to sellers to get a site up and flourishing and then the reality of survival must come into play. Unfortunately it's survival time for most of the auction sites and the fees must come with it.
|
opals4u
|
posted on October 17, 2001 11:05:37 AM new
telwil
Apparently these sites have no worth in the stock market or they would be able to sell them to make money for advertising. They do it the way they are doing it because apparently no buyers of stock feel they are a good investment. So these sites think they can get it from unexpecting sellers. They want to invest nothing and get the sellers to pay their start up fees before they even start to produce any revenue for the sellers.
A couple of typos!
[ edited by opals4u on Oct 17, 2001 11:10 AM ]
|
gmileske
|
posted on October 17, 2001 11:19:00 AM new
Charging fees before the advertising.
HUM let me see that sounds like:
"Cart before the horse" and "Have the cake and eat it too"
Heck even Yahoo built up a good BUYER/seller base before charging fees. Using there OWN moneys.
|
opals4u
|
posted on October 17, 2001 11:35:57 AM new
bidsbids
If you recall, eBay started out FREE and got a buyer base before starting fees. Why should these sites start right up charging top site fees for no sales. I don't need alternative sites bad enough to pay for nothing, but then a fool and his money will soon part. Not calling ANYONE a fool UNLESS! If the shoe fits - then wear it!
|
RB
|
posted on October 17, 2001 11:48:14 AM new
"Heck even Yahoo built up a good BUYER/seller base before charging fees"
Yes, and look what happened to them.
"If you don't have money for these requirements then you should not be in the business"
Exactly.
"I believe in FVF if a site advertises and helps me sell a item they deserve part of what I made"
I agree 100% with this.
"Ebay charges hefty listing fees and a FVF and draws revenue from "extras" on the listings. Even with all of those fees they earn a relative small amount of money in relation to the number of outstanding shares"
Hmmm ... I don't think any of the eBay major stockholders are exactly suffering financially! Besides, most people don't mind paying the "hefty" fees to get results.
|
opals4u
|
posted on October 17, 2001 11:53:18 AM new
I would like to thank EVERYONE for participating in this thread. I have to leave for now, but will try to reply to any new posts tomorrow.
Thanks again and have a Great Day!
|
tjkitchens
|
posted on October 17, 2001 04:14:48 PM new
If there is going to be FVF's only, then they will need to find a way to get rid of the junk. Why would there not be tons of junk if it is free if it doesnt sell. That is the problem. I am for the listing fees and no FVF's. I am speaking in a sports card frame of mind, cause that is what I deal with, but would think that everyone would agree that ANY site does not need tons of junk in any category. Take care.....T.J.
|
opals4u
|
posted on October 17, 2001 04:46:46 PM new
tjkitchens
That would certainly be easy enough to do if they had appropriate catagories and listing in appropriate categories was enforced. I don't see where that should be much of a problem at all.
They do this type of montoring for adult items in a sense. Simply keep items where they belong.
Another way is to limit relists. Sellers get tired of relisting manually over and over.
|
robnzak
|
posted on October 17, 2001 04:51:52 PM new
"...Besides, most people don't mind paying the "hefty" fees to get results..."
Actually, I do mind paying the "hefty" fees, but if I want results, I don't have much choice.
Rob
|
toollady
|
posted on October 17, 2001 04:57:51 PM new
Opals4u,
What do you think the costs may be to run a website?
How about throwing out some numbers?
I'm thinking payroll alone has to be in the 7-10 thousand range per month, what with management, programmers, customer service and accounting people.
That's a whole lot of auctions ending with bids to survive on FVF alone.
|
opals4u
|
posted on October 17, 2001 05:16:35 PM new
toollady
I am not throwing figures because I have no intention of starting a site. But I can say, as I have said that if they don't have the money to go into business, then they should not expect others to finance their venture with no expectations of any returns.
They should have the money to get buyers interested in the site before starting. This is only common business sense to me. Do you think I sold my first stones before I purchased them? I had to have the money up front for all the expenses before I could even start selling. If you want to throw your time and money to them, be my guest, but I am a little more realistic than that.
If I wanted to take chances, I would invest in stock, which I do. By the way, now is an excellent time for that.
|
toollady
|
posted on October 17, 2001 05:38:30 PM new
Opals4u,
Your question was Why can't sites make enough money on FVF alone?
In order to answer that question, wouldn't we have to know how much it costs to run a site?
All businesses have fixed expenses each month, regardless if they are making sales or not.
Even you and I have fixed expenses whether we make a sale or not. We have telephone and internet bills that need to be paid. That money has to come from somewhere either from sales, or out of our own pockets.
Don't you think these sites are dipping into their pockets each month to provide a place to sell our wares? If we don't make a sale, they don't have any income to pay their expenses.
With your analysis of having to get your inventory before starting, isn't that what the sites have done? They have their software, hardware and employees in place.
They still need sellers and then bidders when they open the doors.
Most, if not all the sites waive listing fees until building up their business and only charge when an item sells.
Will any of the sites begin charging once they start becoming successful? Only time will tell that, but wouldn't you want to know up front of the potential of having to pay the listing fee once the site grows, rather than get hit with the fee out of the blue?
How much of a FVF would YOU be willing to pay in order to sell your stones?
Why do you feel a site can run on FVF alone?
I guess they could if they set the percentage high enough, but would sellers be willing to list when it may be cheaper to pay a nominal listing fee and a lower FVF percentage?
By your responses to the posts made here, I don't know what the answer is, you are looking for.
|
grobe
|
posted on October 17, 2001 06:46:56 PM new
Sites can make as much money from FVF alone as with a combination of listing fees and FVF. Sellers have a maximum amount they are willing to pay for sales and if this maximum is exceeded (via listing fees or FVF fess or a combination) they will quit listing. As has been said by one poster you need listing fees to control the junk and overpriced merchandize. Buyers simply are not going to keep checking lists of endless repeats. As to the answer that sellers would get tired of manual relisting that is true--but sellers can get software to do automatic relisting.
|
opals4u
|
posted on October 17, 2001 07:01:00 PM new
Toollady,
It is apparent that you have something set in your mind as I have something set in mine. You apparently enjoy handing over dollar after dollar for nothing.
I don't and don't need sites that expect me to.
|
emak
|
posted on October 17, 2001 07:46:27 PM new
I'm surprised more sites haven't tried Amazon's "subscription" method - the Pro Merchant Account they offer. Up to 40,000 listings for $40 a month. I'm not saying other sites should offer the same number of listings or the same price level, but I do think that a monthly subscription service along with a FVF would be something to consider. Maybe even a tiered system with different volumes and pricing structures. This provides auctions sites with needed revenues to cover costs, and keeps the cost of listing auctions down for the seller.
If Amazon would just follow through on one little thing - ADVERTISE - to go with the subscription service, I think they could again become a big-time player in the auction market.
|
mfcwizzard
|
posted on October 18, 2001 01:35:39 AM new
If I have an expensive item i'm not going to sell it on a high fvf site. I'd rather pay an insertion fee. So if an auction site wants tons of low priced listings that take up alot of storage. They will charge a FVF and no listing fee. Then the problem is the auction site is trying to make it's money by charging a FVF on $1.00 items.
[email protected]
|
timetravelers
|
posted on October 18, 2001 03:21:12 AM new
It's rare to find a site that is not greedy.there is a site that has been around a few years & is trying something innovative on the subscriptions.& they advertise..
we need to support some of these sites.
please see my comment here good luck everyone hope we have a good holiday season.http://www.auctionwatch.com/mesg/read.html?num=33&thread=19323
|
