posted on April 8, 2002 11:57:59 AM new
I've recently had a negative experience with a small online auction, Smith & Jones Pottery Auctions, that has a rather questionable auction bidding practice and wanted to get some feedback from this forum.
The lot in question was a large ticket item and consequently was subject to a rather frustrating bidding policy which provides for callbacks to anyone who would like to raise their bid once the auction has ended. For example, I placed the high bid (which met any reserve) approximately 24 hours prior to the close of the auction. There was no other activity on this item through the close of bidding. After the auction closed, their web site reflected that I was the high bidder. The following morning, I was still listed as the high bidder. Prior to noon on the day following the auction close, I was contacted by the auction house saying that I had been outbid by someone that morning, and was given an opportunity to raise my bid. If I raised my bid, they would then call the other bidders on this lot and see if they wanted to raise their bid, and so on. This practice in theory could have gone on for a protracted period of time and actually did not conclude in this particular instance until 4pm the day following the auction.
I could almost understand their policy if there had been a flurry of activity on this lot in the closing minutes of the auction, however this was far from the case and runs counter to any auction I've ever participated in.
I attempted to resolve this matter with the auction house and was met with evasive, rude and finally dismissive responses. I declined to participate in this shill operation, not because of the price of the item, but on principle.
Has anyone had similar experiences with this or any other auction house? Does this practice seem fair?
posted on April 8, 2002 02:00:49 PM new
I have never heard of such a practice from any auction house, either internet or live auctions.
I would almost have to believe that this is a violation of the site's own TOS. If their TOS allows this type of practice, this will turn off many buyers in my opinion.
If this happened to me, I would be distancing myself from this site as fast as I could. I definitely would not continue in this bidding.
[ edited by stavecards on Apr 8, 2002 02:02 PM ]
posted on April 8, 2002 03:01:47 PM new
That is the most absurd auction setup I've ever heard of. Reminds me a little of the TV series of MASH where Hawkeye & Trapper play a card game and make up rules as they go. By rights, that site should quickly go bellyup with quirky rules like that.
It sounds like the auction item may have possibly been a consignment item to the auction house and they wanted to get more money for the item. That reeks of auction tampering and you're lucky to discover they game so you can now avoid the site.
posted on April 8, 2002 03:56:44 PM new
Sounds like to me they are playing you to get more of your hard earned money. I would even bet that there is no other person up bidding the item. I would simply put my money back in my pocket and move on. Don't even reply to any e-mails that they may send at this point. If they are calling on the phone, do you have caller ID? If so, don't pickup when they call. There is plenty of other items just as nice or nicer you can bid upon.
Good luck,
bp
posted on April 8, 2002 05:23:07 PM new
I tend to agree with the posts that this was probably a scam to drive up the price. It would not surprise me if Smith & Jones were to conact me and offer this lot again saying the 'supposed' high bidder backed out. I wouldn't touch this one again. I have filed a complaint with on the Online BBB.
posted on April 9, 2002 07:27:16 AM new
hmmm, reading their bidding terms, from the link Kodi provided it seems to be all above board to me.
They clearly state their auctions are not an ebay style auction, they are a phone, fax auction house, and also allow on-line bidding...the on-line bids end at a certain time, but that doesn't necessarily mean the auction has concluded on higher value auctions with more than one bidder. the bidders have the option to continue bidding by phone and receive call-backs
This appears to be a case of not reading the bidding terms which again are clearly laid out. robnzak - 1st editions
posted on April 9, 2002 08:12:48 AM new
Yes, the TOS does outline this process, albeit confusing to say the least, especially never having dealt with an auction with these guidelines. Perhaps the operative and subjective word here is 'Active Bidding'. Having a bid in place for 24 hours and no counter bids through the end of the auction is NOT active bidding by any stretch of the imagination.
posted on April 9, 2002 11:03:35 AM new
The difference here seems to be that there are no listers. This is like a regular B/M auction house, where the house is selling the item for a consigner.
I don't believe the terms are improper, but they do appear to be very hard pressed to prevent shennanigans perpetrated by shill bidders. for example, I could consign items and then go in and register with my mother in law's phone number as a bidder. then when the auction closes, I would be able to easily drive up the bid price via the phone mechanism.
That is just one quick example of how easy it would be to use that system for illicit purposes, without the cooperation of the auction house.
I would tend to stay away from this type of auction.
I go to live auctions, and reputable houses will accept phone bids, or even call a bidder on the phone at the time an item is being offered. I don't really see anything wrong with that, although, in a live auction situation, I do prefer to have the ability to see someone actually bidding against me.
Some of these houses have now combined with the internet, and will run special auctions simultaneously, online and live, but again, when the item is knocked down on the floor, it is sold. The online bids, are treated more as "left bids" or Absentee bids". Even those I stay away from though because I believe there is too much opportunity for playing games by a consigner.
