posted on February 15, 2001 09:19:16 AM new
Just want to make sure that I have this correct.
You want a place on the Internet where you can auction your things off, but you don't want to pay fees.
You want that site to provide 24 hour technical support, but you don't want to pay them any fees.
You want the site to be advertisement free, because advertising is an eye sore to you, but you don't want to pay any fees.
You want the site to advertise all over the web, TV, and radio so that your items have large exposure, but you don't want to pay any fees.
You want upgrades and added features to make your job as a seller as easy as possible, but you don't want to pay any fees.
You want a chat forum on that site so you can complain to the management about how they are not responding to your needs, but you don't want to pay any fees.
You want multiple servers so that the site runs quickly and smoothley, but you don't want to pay any fees.
Like I said, I am just making sure that I have the facts straight so when I put together my business plan I will be able to get the financing that such a business would deserve.
Wonder if this would work:
ATTENTION INVESTORS: Online Auction Site Starting Next Week. Please place money in the receptical box that we have left for you below.
[ edited by auctiongaurd on Feb 15, 2001 09:21 AM ]
[ edited by auctiongaurd on Feb 15, 2001 09:22 AM ]
posted on February 15, 2001 10:01:33 AM new
Just telling it like I see it AG2! Personally, I have the utmost respect for the site owners that put up with this whining and place their hard earned money on the line for a group of people that want them to do everything except make money.
For those of you that think that I am way out of line here's a little project for you.
1. Go into your local mall's leasing office and tell them that you are ready to set up shop in their mall. Make your list of demands and when they agree to your needs hit them with the fact that you refuse to pay any rent for this space.
2. After the mall kicks you out, take your car down to the local tune-up shop and tell them that you want it running in tip-top condition, so you can use it for deliveries. Then tell them that you refuse to pay.
3. Repeat this same type of excersise with hotels, restaraunts, and other service industries and then write a letter to the editors of your local newspaper whining about how your entire town is filled with losers who can't run a business. Explain in your letter that these people have the nerve to ask you for money when it should actually be their pleasure to serve you. While you're at it, also complain about those darn interuptions during your favorite TV shows.
[ edited by auctiongaurd on Feb 15, 2001 10:03 AM ]
posted on February 15, 2001 11:35:08 AM new
Wabmester,
That is halarious! But you are right. People have been accustomed to getting their services on the Internet for free. I've said this before, I think that on a particular date ALL of the online auction sites should begin starting fees INCLUDING basic listing fees. If all of them did this it would clean up the industry from the littered three cent garbage and turn the industry into a respectable e-commerce marketplace.
It would also weed out the less adaquate sites and provide a revenue stream for those that survive that would allow for branding, advertising, and upkeep.
Sure it would also make a lot of sellers abandon the auction industry for good, but if I were a business I would rather have 1000 paying customers over 10,000 non-paying ones.
posted on February 15, 2001 12:00:50 PM new
AG you have worked for Yahoo for how many years? I do not believe everone that left Yahoo wanted a free ride! Most people will be happy to pay a FVF but for Yahoo with no bidders to ask you to pay listing fee's is nuts. They also have no people working in Customer Service. Did Yahoo say they would never charge fee's???? I list with Bidville now they have people working there and seem to care about the seller's and bidder's! If they ever start charging FVF I will keep listing with them because I no they have bills to pay. I have alot more to say on this issue but will try and keep it short. AG we dont ask for a free ride just fair prices. Thank you.
posted on February 15, 2001 12:16:17 PM new
telwil, I understand your stance on paying only a final value fee, but again I direct you to step one of my project above. Go ahead and make that change, tell the mall that you have no problem paying them, but only a percentage of what you sell. They will still throw you out.
Why?
Because they have no gaurantees that you will be selling items that will attract buyers. What's to stop you from setting up shop and marketing used toothe brushes? Obviously nobody will buy them, but guess wht, the mall still has to pay the electric bill and other charges associated with you setting up shop there.
'Sure this would work if everybody was selling quality items at reasonable prices, but the fact is that a large percentage of the items on the FREE auction sites are crap. By crap I am refering to recipes that were copied and pasted from elsewhere on the Internet and common baseball cards that are being sold for a penny a piece. Most of the "quality" products are available at your local Walmart or K-mart for quite a bit less than what these sellers have their opening bid set for.
Bottom line is that you would not place an item up for sale that you honestly didn't think would be sold if you had to pay for the listing. You would either end up becoming a legitimate business person or you would leave the online auctioning industry for good.
The time is overdue for the auction sites to start charging listing fees and for those of you that are appauled by this, better dust off that McDonalds name tag, because you obviously have no business sense at all if you can't comprehend this.
posted on February 15, 2001 12:20:46 PM new
Auctiongaurd said:
Bottom line is that you would not place an item up for sale that you honestly didn't think would be sold if you had to pay for the listing. You would either end up becoming a legitimate business person or you would leave the online auctioning industry for good.
That is a good point. I have seen items up for sale that would not make the cut of the $.25 clearance box at a garage sale.
posted on February 15, 2001 12:23:08 PM new
By the way, if there are any sites operating that need me to come on board and explain this concept to your users, I would be happy to do so. My hourly rates are reasonable.
Site owners, do not be afraid of your members! Do not let them boss you around. Remember, it is you that is prooviding them with a service. Without you they would have to start their own web sites and pay for all of the programming and upkeep. Be firm and make sure that they understand exactly how valuable the service that you are providing for them is.
posted on February 15, 2001 12:38:43 PM new
AG once again how many years have you been with Yahoo? No I do not sell in the mall I sell on the net (See the difference) I do not compete with Wal-mart, K-mart ect. I buy at Auctions then resale on the internet (I do fair at it) What I pick up at the auctions in the real world not the net you dont find at Wal-mart, K-mart ect. No I am not like you a big time seller just little Joe. But I do understand the auction sites need the sellers even the little guy like me. Once again I would be happy to pay a FVF that way if I make money the site makes money then we will both work to bring in the bidders. You no so much you have lost touch with the simple things like trying to stand me up by the big retail stores! Do you see Wal-mart, K-mart ect selling on Ebay or I dont care yahooooo. WHY?
posted on February 15, 2001 12:53:27 PM new
auctiongaurd:
It is so nice to see someone stand and 'Say It As It Is'.
After seeing so many whining, demanding people who are a bit misguided as to their overall importance in the major scheme of things, this is a welcome breath of fresh air!
People stampede to a site that has been functioning slow but steady, but is fairly new. These people come with demands and criticism of everyone and everything, pushing the original people that were there long before them right out the door.
Fortunately, most of them are now in private chat rooms complaining all the time to each other, but when they surface it is nothing but their negative hateful energy that they bring with them, and can/does ruin the Karma of an auction site with a key stroke.
posted on February 15, 2001 01:48:26 PM new
Auctiongaurd
By golly, I think you've got it!
How many honest sellers would dare to put recipes by the hundreds on a pay site?
I was guilty of that in the beginning just to compete in contests. But, I didn't put hundreds, I put around 10. Now I don't even compete, because I see that those sellers that have huge inventories, bulk listers, perhaps no day job winning all the time. If it's not the grand prize, it's always the first or second prize.
Not too long ago I asked several sellers was this their first experience on auction sites and they all said yes. They're in for a rude awakening, I'm afraid. I like most of the folks on these free ride sites, but I can't see them paying fees at any time.
I sold quite a few items for "house money," but cash sales are in the bottom of the pit. I made alot of nice buys with "house money," but after awhile felt guilty buying these items that I knew were worth quite a bit of money. I stopped doing it.
Bravo to you for bring this thread forth. I'm curious to see how many people will stay when listing fees are enforced. I'll be honest and say I won't, unless the traffic picks up to the extent where I can make some cold hard cash.
posted on February 15, 2001 02:04:54 PM new
So it seems that there are others that feel this way too! I often wondered if I were the only one with any business sense!
I stand behind my plee to all auction sites that they should start charging fees ASAP.
posted on February 15, 2001 02:17:40 PM new
mtnmama I commend you for your honesty and not falling in line offering the same old spiel as many others from that site do.
posted on February 15, 2001 02:22:05 PM new
Just a reminder, this is not about "that site". This thread is about the sites that make up all of the 'free' online auction industry
posted on February 15, 2001 02:32:20 PM new
Auctionguard,
In the past 3 years I've listed on almost every free site there is/was here. One was touted to be the "best" several years ago. I can't recall the name, but several people tried it because it was started by someone we knew of from one of these forums. Whether the person ran the forum or not I don't remember.
I listed there, got ripped off several times by deadbeats and never returned to it. The staff was unfriendly and rude. If one asked a question, one was told to leave if they didn't like it. So I did.
I listed on Yahoo awhile back and again had more deadbeats than I've ever had. That went to the wayside.
I've listed on Amazon for .10 each and sold a couple of items there that wouldn't sell on ebay. It was nice, but keeping track of two pay sites was beyond what I wanted to do.
I've listed on edeals, 321Gone, tbay, epier, webswap, etc etc etc. I found IWant.com to be kind of nice. They sent me a t-shirt I had one sale on tbay, which I mentioned in another thread was bid on by a staff member after several months (I had even forgotten it was listed).
All of these sites are nice, all have good customer service, all are free for now. There are still no bidders. Still all too many sellers.
Of course, sellers buy from sellers on sites, then they become bidders.
posted on February 15, 2001 02:33:36 PM new
I know auctiongaurd, but I'm aware of what site she was talking about.
I think you're right online about this whole free site free for all.
I posted a question earlier this morning asking what people plan on doing once these sites charge as they are going to have to.
From what I have gathered from reading various threads they plan on running from free site to free site I guess until there is nowhere else to go.
I have a fairly successful flea market business as well we do right now with good weather anywhere from $400-$600 a weekend.
One thing I learned is that you have to be in the same place for those regular customers to find you. And since we also sell a pretty unique item for this area we get a lot of word of mouth business as well and if you aren't in that same location week after week then they quickly get tired of looking.
I see the trend here with sellers running from site to site looking for that next free meal and buyers are wandering around trying to figure out where they are going. As soon as they find them boom...they all pack up and look for yet another site.
posted on February 15, 2001 02:35:08 PM new
Hi everyone,
I too agree with auction sites charging fees. I also agree with the person that said Yahoo should have started with Final value fees too. Seems like there are a lot of new online auctions popping up. I think the reason why they don`t charge yet is because they really can`t because the site does not offer enough to charge money for. (No bidders, site messes up a lot, don`t have a lot to offer etc.etc.) I really hope one of these new auction sites step up to the plate and really compete against e-bay. Competition will be good for us all. Not that I hate e-bay either, I do pretty good with e-bay. But e-bay will keep raising their rates without competition. Have a great night everyone!
Dan
posted on February 15, 2001 03:17:59 PM new
>>>>>"By crap I am refering to recipes that were copied and pasted from elsewhere on the Internet and common baseball cards that are being sold for a penny a piece."<<<<<<
Gee, if that was the problem it is a shame that the auction sites didn't have anyone working for them with enough brains to remove those categories.
posted on February 15, 2001 06:42:39 PM new
Mtnmama, that attitude of "if you don't like it, why don't you just leave" seems to have been adopted by another B-bay site we all know and ...........well, we all know. I think when that becomes the attitude, it is down hill from there for all sites. Especially ones that have no buyers.
Appreciate your honesty.
posted on February 15, 2001 07:04:18 PM new
auctiongaurd:
If we wanted to pay rent at a mall or have a brick & mortar building, Yes, we would have to pay for it. I hardly think that selling on an online auction site such as Yahoo! compares. Seriously! Anyway, Yahoo! didn't want to do FVF because they would have to be involved in bringing in the bidders! Ha! That would require effort on their part and better customer service. Something they know nothing about.
posted on February 15, 2001 07:07:09 PM new
Well, humbled, guess what? That particular site went under. I wish I could remember the name. It started with a U I think. I want to say Universal, but I can't be sure.
posted on February 15, 2001 07:23:00 PM new
I don't mind a listing fee or even a FVF if the items sell.
The fees are not that much.....I don't understand the problem. If you are selling your items, then you are making money. There is an old adage "to make money - you have to spend money".
If you had a store, you would pay rent, water, telephone, electric, insurance for customers, have payroll, more insurance for workers comp. etc. If you did not pay those bills, you would be out of business real quick.
Online auctions like Dutchbid and ebay give the venue to host the auctions. I certainly can understand that they want to earn a living. Ebay raised it's prices, but items sell there. I know if these new sites do not charge they will go under just like golds. It seems that a few people just want to complain all the time over nothing. If you can't swim maybe you should get out of the pool.
I look forward to a good site that will offer competition to ebay, and I think Dutchbid will be the one. Competition is good for business. A good competitor to ebay would bring both of those sites within reach (and sales) to all.
posted on February 15, 2001 07:56:48 PM new
mtnmama - Are you thinking of AuctionUniverse?
I agree that sites need to charge fees. Here's my idea - a one-time listing fee for each item you put up, then a number, maybe 5 or 10? free relists (no way am I paying a listing fee each time on a site that has few or no bidders at the time!) and also a final value fee right from the start.
There is just so much CRAP listed on the free sites, it gives me a headache to try and browse the listings!
posted on February 16, 2001 01:15:51 AM new
I think one of the posters is confused,
they seem to be mixing up an auction site with a mall store or a mac donalds, at an auction it is common practice to take a percentage of what the auctioneer sells,
not for what he does not sell and further more the auctioneer is paid his cut and so is the seller wihtout having to beg someone for it, put the show on the other foot go in and ask the auto mechanic to fix your car then tell him that if he does a third party will be collecting a fee from him first then have the third party charge the mechanic for fixing the car you never brought in, and make sure he has an impossible time getting
his fee back. I personally think we have to nmany consultants, better yet we have a secretary of agriculture who has never mucked out a stall, and similar in most other positions of power. Tilwil is RIGHT
posted on February 16, 2001 01:27:34 AM new
auroranorth, not trying to start an argument here, but I must say that I think it is you that is confused.
My point of this post is that most of the things that are being sold on the free listing sites are things that will NEVER sell and if these things never sell then the auction site NEVER gets paid.
Why should a site pay for its upkeep, employees, programming, hosting, etc. if they will never receive a dime from most of the sellers, even if they do have final value fees?
Your post on another thread about eBay being accountable for their "stunts" just "like the murders for democracy students in China" is obsurd. How dare you compare commerce to comunism!
Bottom line is that if the sites charged a small basic listing fee of even a couple of cents, then the quality of listings would skyrocket as well as the incomes of the sellers.
[ edited by auctiongaurd on Feb 16, 2001 01:28 AM ]
posted on February 16, 2001 02:04:02 AM new
commerce compares to communism very well when there is only 1 company or only 1 party
when china shot their own kids, were they doing anything diferent than the police here did to veterans and workers asking for a living wage in the 20's
The Idea of a few cents is marvelous but it does not address major changes in auctions that are arbitrary, one sided and in some cases nonsense. as far as the items that some have complained about i cannot see why someone who is not selling would keep listing this junk maybe the auctions should also be charging the sellers for a staff mental therapist, for the record if yahoo had said we will be charging a final value fee on completed sales and a few cents or even a 39.95 fee like amazon I would have paid it,
I like speaking out when something is wrong
and what has been done by the bug guys lately at several sites is heavy handed ripping off and no one in their right mind can justify it.
In Vhina there is a saying older than the government of murderers they now have that says if a million people say a foolish thing it is still a foolish thing
posted on February 16, 2001 02:04:02 AM new
commerce compares to communism very well when there is only 1 company or only 1 party
when china shot their own kids, were they doing anything diferent than the police here did to veterans and workers asking for a living wage in the 20's
The Idea of a few cents is marvelous but it does not address major changes in auctions that are arbitrary, one sided and in some cases nonsense. as far as the items that some have complained about i cannot see why someone who is not selling would keep listing this junk maybe the auctions should also be charging the sellers for a staff mental therapist, for the record if yahoo had said we will be charging a final value fee on completed sales and a few cents or even a 39.95 fee like amazon I would have paid it,
I like speaking out when something is wrong
and what has been done by the bug guys lately at several sites is heavy handed ripping off and no one in their right mind can justify it.
In Vhina there is a saying older than the government of murderers they now have that says if a million people say a foolish thing it is still a foolish thing
