posted on March 12, 2001 07:33:16 AM new
LOL at you snakebait!! I imagine he is resting. He took the train from his home to Bidbay so he is probably give out. HOWEVER if he doesn't post or sign in pretty quick, I am going to call him on the phone!!!!! Get ready Dahling!!!!1
MEOW pft pft!!
>^,,^^,,^<
posted on March 13, 2001 09:13:06 AM new
Good morning.
I write this knowing that more than likely that I will be flamed and get a bunch of I told you so's.
Okay about my trip to BidBay.
The trip was nice I thoroughly enjoyed the train with the exception of the dificulty I experienced sleeping.
My arrival into LA was early other than their driver having difficulty locating me at the Burbank Airport everything went off without a hitch.
One of the first persons I met was BidBay VP and former congressman Wes Cooley.
The general office attire was casual and Mr. Cooley fit right in.
He and I sat down and chatted for a bit. He was polite, humorous, and cordial in spite of some of the things I have written about.
George came out of his office a bit later and was no real surprise. He exuded the same charm and confidence you will experience when speaking to him on the phone.
He gave me a brief tour of the office and introduced me to all of the staff including the techs. The joke of the day was pretty much where were they going to bury my body...LOL
I would like to quickly address this issue and then I will move on. I too have found this concern by the internet community that BidBay would actually bring me out to Tujunga to "whack" me a bit humorous as well. Regardless one of the issues I did address with GT is that even though people were naive enough to believe such a thing could happen there was definitely a problem somewhere that the mistrust level could get so high to even think of such things.
After the brief tour of the office I then was able to meet their other VP Yvonne. Once again I was met with charm and grace in spite of some of the things I have written about this company.
Now on to the business.
I read on this board some member here stating that the reason they would never be invited is because they would ask the "hard questions."
I find this rather amusing to say the least as it does imply that I would not.
I put together a presentation that addressed all issues that have been brought up by the people of this community as well as others. I also brought along copies of Texas laws that validated some of the things as well as a few articles on cases to prove how some of these issues could directly affect the company even though they are only a "venue" as eBay would say.
The reaction I received from George was that in general he was impressed that I had done my "homework."
The presentation was left on the board and I personally saw George taking people into the office and going over it.
I will not go into all of the details as these issues have been discussed time and time again here and on other boards but the general topic was BidBay's online image broken down into categories and many sub-categories. The presentation lasted most of the afternoon.
The fact here is BidBay challenged me, threw down the gauntlet so to speak and I accepted the challenge. I in turn threw the gauntlet down at them and they have accepted the challenge.
I asked the hard questions and I received some very truthful answers.
The meetings were very productive. Take that however you will ,I will walk away from this experience learning a few things myself.
Number 1 "he who is without sin cast the first stone." LOL
Number 2 "judge not lest you be judged in a likewise manner."
I will also say that we are not 100% wrong, but we are also not 100% right. My perception of this company has changed. That is not to say that I do not have any problems with some of the issues that have been brought up by you or even myself. But I will say that I did not have all of the facts on some of those issues and judged them on those issues without those facts.
My general perception of this company is now of a company that is trying hard to placate a very demanding user base, and very demanding online auction community doing whatever it takes. And when you attempt to do these things with the "whatever it takes" mode of thinking in an environment such as the internet with it's ever changing and confusing laws you will make mistakes...and big ones at that.
As I said earlier BidBay has accepted the challenge, but Rome was not built in a day and neither will BidBay be.
Now to address the remarks I know are forthcoming.
Once again I met the challenge. I met with BidBay and expressed not only my concerns but yours as well. That is all I intended to do and now that is done as I said above it is now time to give them room to grow and improve.
If you do not like my position, or now question my "integrity" fine. My challenge to you is for you to phone George and ask him those "hard questions," to find your own answers.
posted on March 13, 2001 10:22:59 AM new
I've never seen the point to your visit to Bidbay, AG2. Of course they're going to be on their best behavior with you, and I have no doubt they were well aware of ALL the issues so many of us have with Bidbay, their staff and some of their users, even without your input.
My #1 problem with them is how THEY ALLOW themselves to be seen by the online community. The riduculous goings-on at the Bidbay site itself, the CEO's childish behavior on this board and others including their own, etc. I am not taking the word of the posters here, I've witnessed these things personally and came away totally disgusted.
I doubt anything would convince me to sell my items there unless there was a complete overhaul - including new staff and management.
posted on March 13, 2001 10:24:34 AM new
You know what? I like the look of the site, I like many of the people I met and I like the potential.
What I don't like and disagree with is that I have seen critics of the site being met with flames, threats and insults on both these boards and on the bidbay boards. I also do not like the fact that George has encouraged his members to come here and disrupt the boards. To me board disruption for the sole purpose of causing trouble is not something to be proud of or encouraged. I do believe some of those who were kicked off bidbay deserved it for board disruption however I also believe that some were kicked off simply for voicing a strong opinion of the site.
I am watching Bidbay and note that some decent changes have taken place and agree hard work is taking place. As to the threatening email I got, I do believe it came from a member and am trying hard to believe that the owner of Bidbay did not encourage the sending of it. However with the encouragment he has shown of those coming here to spam these boards leaves me to wonder. However, I recognize the difference between flame wars and threats of bodily harm and since I have never heard of or seen any such threats from him, I will give George the benefit of the doubt on that as well.
I am all about giving things more than one chance but I want to see changes continue first.
http://ballsandstrikescollectibles.beckett.com/
I have always assumed that they have been governed by the 'do whatever it takes' mentality, and have driven it to the level of a Keystone Cops comedy of errors. The little things, like 'silent periods' and template 'borrowing' I consider as things done in desperation and hurry.
And they have recently been responsive. Recipes have been coralled, and I understand that contests have been put on hold.
The BidBay Bucks thing is a fiasco that will take a freaking genius to get them out of.
The crazy, stupid little things they did to annoy people or lasso them in never made me question their integrity. Just their cumulative intelligence.
However there is a real integrity issue. And that is whether they are building a serious company on firm foundations, (or at least trying to) - or whether their patchwork methods are logical from the basis of a more temporary business model. As in 'Take The Money And Run'. As in IPO.
Actually I hope they stick around. When you get rid of the glaring idiocies it is a well set up site with alot of potential.
In other words I am sure that they are basically a bunch of nice people that do not eat babies for breakfast. But do they intend to feast on their stockholders for lunch?
posted on March 13, 2001 11:07:20 AM new
Toollady...LOL...too funny.
I'm sure that is what a lot of people will be thinking.
No it's still me. The guy with the mouth.
Joanne...I know exactly what you are talking about. That is exactly what George T. paid me for. To discuss how BidBay is percieved by the online community.
In my honest opinion I think you will see changes. In fact I know you will see changes.
Ballsandstrikes.
This hits home with me and was one of the first things on my list of topics to discuss.
I did my best and did not mince words and George was still very receptive. As I stated above you will see changes. Not just in areas of contests, recipes etc, but in how they behave and present themselves to their own community as well as the online community.
Snakebait.
I appreciate the post. You have hit the nail on the head so to speak and all I can say is my opinion is based on my experiences with this company and my experiences have been broadened so to speak by my visit there.
Are their intentions to build a serious company? Before I left I would have said no. But their treatment of me wasn't just general civility, these people took me in and made me privy to a lot of things going on behind the scenes. They entrusted me to take this information and act responsibly with it.
If I were the dishonest person who lacks integrity that some here and elsewhere have accused me of being I could attempt to do harm with this information.
The simple fact is that there is a definite method to the madness. They have a plan. Yes mistakes have been made, but I honestly think if they correct certain issues (which they have already started to do) success is a definite outcome.
AG2
[ edited by auctiongallery2 on Mar 13, 2001 11:08 AM ]
posted on March 13, 2001 01:01:23 PM new
AG2,
Thanks for the informative posting. I've seen some very positive steps being taken over there, still a long way to go, but it is the right direction.
I was wondering if you talked with them about changing the way they count listing? Changing this would make the site look much more serious and honest to online sellers.
Thanks rtt
I hope there are not too many 'secrets' with your new perspective.
They have definitely an 'unusual' business style which has attracted the full attention of the online auction community. Unfortuately pejoritively. But fortunate perhaps that most of its members are not your average K-mart shoppers, but rather an 'elite' hard core of online vendors. And it is the K-Mart shoppers that can determine the success or failure of the online auction business. We cannot rely on niche clientele. Pez collectors may have started eBay but they certainly could not sustain it.
As a student of psychology and media, I find the P.T. Barnum marketing modality repulsive. With its cheap psychological tricks and inherent contempt for the intelligence of the consumer it is something that one would like to see only when presented as a bad example. But the sad truth is that in many instances it works. People will still happily hand over hard earned money to some midget in a lizard suit so they can step behind a curtained door and see the 'EGRESS'. This is something that GT&Co. have been banking on. The BidBay Bucks, the contests, the recipe category where penniless housewives could achieve thousands of feedbacks and BBBucks - all these were meant as hooks to draw people in, especially with that irresistable lure of the possibility of 'getting something for nothing'. But once in there was no thought given of what to do with them, and since these were not the target audience that could be expected to buy original Monet's or new stereo systems, nature took over and the 'hook' became the 'motif', or defining characteristic of the site.
Now they have realized that the basic gimmicks have not worked, so they are beginning to take corrective action. But I am concerned that the basic marketing approach has not changed. Recipes are no longer being counted for the sites dubious statistics, but Dutch Auctions still are, when in reality it should be total listings, and not items. GT has flat out lied in the past when he stated that this method was the norm. There is the PT Cruiser trek across the nation which is little more than a publicity stunt. But it might add a few thousand users. The advertizements are a positive step, and thankfully GT is not in a Gorilla suit. But my question at this point is: Do they intend to make a fundamental change in marketing strategies?
They bought Snuze.com, a blip on the screen of online auctions, and its fate is uncertain. They bought AuctionDiner, a rather obscure auction overview service, and shut it down till April when for certain all of its 'regulars' will be long gone. I am still trying to divine the method to *this* madness.
They need to develop a solid reputation to attract advertizing dollars. They desperately need to diversify and sell non-auction related services, whether web space (like 100Meg for $10/month) or Tax Preparation services. GT's main business.
Auctions should be used primarily to attract people to a site from where other services can be offered. There are no successful auction-only competitors to eBay. Period. Yahoo is a portal, and Amazon is a bookseller, and both have used auctions to attract people to their other services.
So my question here is: Do they realize this? Do they realize that no one in their right minds would pay more than a tiny fraction (<10%) of ebay's fees when they are likely to have an even lesser amount of page hits. So my next question is: How do they intend to make money? The sale of additional 'features' is likely to possibly pay their electric bill. And little else.
And my final line of enquiry is this: When does their venture capital run out? This is a critical question and I hope you would be able to answer this. So far ALOT of money has been spent and squandered (on things like contests) with little or none coming in. Now I realize that there is a certain need for secrecy for certain types of business plans, but I think secrecy as a whole has been vastly overrated as a vechicle for success. SO tell us as much as you can about exactly what they intend to do. And when. And what part their IPO plays in their plans.
posted on March 13, 2001 02:26:05 PM new
newguy: Ditto!
AG2: It is SO very intresting that you mentioned Wes Cooley. I am so surprised that he is involved with this outfit, that needed your $5000.00 worth of advise.
Do you have a Masters or Doctorate in Marketing and or Business? I am not attacking you, I would just like to know what your qualifications are in business, especially online business.
Did you know:
COOLEY RECEIVES BUBBLE HEAD AWARD
This months dummy.down Belt Way Bubble Head award goes to regonian and Republican Congressman Wes Cooley. Cooley claims to have been with "Army Special Forces" in Korea. The problem remains that the Special Forces did not exist at the time of the Korean War. On being questioned about the inaccuracy Cooley, through an aide, explained that he was not at liberty to comment because the "Special Forces performed secret missions."
Cooley also maintains that his army records were destroyed in a fire in 1973.
Cooley also listed himself as a Phi Beta Kappa, but now says that he was confused about the difference between the academic honor and being a member of his community college honor society.
Oregon's Former Congressman Wes Cooley was convicted in Marion County Circuit Court of lying in the statement he made about his military experience for the official Oregon Voter's pamphlet. He paid $7000 in fines plus court costs.
Plug in the name in any web browser and you can find out so much about this person.
This surely cannot be the same person? No, it must be wrong. I am certain that the group there, would have serious issues with a person convicted of such serious crimes.
The FTC would certainly not allow this to happen. You must have the name of the person wrong.
posted on March 13, 2001 02:38:39 PM new
dadnmom you said "
Plug in the name in any web browser and you can find out so much about this person. "
WOW!! I also did the name of the Bidbay CEO!!! It works. I think I will try my own name. LOL
MEOW pft pft!!
>^,,^^,,^<
posted on March 13, 2001 02:42:17 PM new
dadnmom, what about the securities fraud that one of the main owners of the company was convicted of? Do you think that they addressed this issue with AG2? I know that AG2 has had a change of heart about this company because they say they are going to "change", but does that erase the reputations of its officers?
As interesting as it may be to debate these issues, I will not be doing so anymore. All of this is surely causing them to gain users and I for one don't want to be a part of their "helping hand" network anymore.
posted on March 13, 2001 03:06:09 PM new
All I can say AG, is ROTFLAMO!
Did you happen to bring them the letter you wrote to me about BidBay and their scandalous goings on?
You know, the one in which you told me to read for myself how bad they were? The one you tried so very hard to convince me that BidBay is a bust and doing very illegal things?
I'm glad you had a nice trip. Trains are hard to sleep on, but the nice cushion you brought home with you must have made the trip bearable.
Number 1 I did not go to BidBay to teach them how to run their business.
I went to BidBay with the intention of sharing with them the perspective that some online users have of BidBay and the goings on there.
As far as my experience. I have been involved in business management most of my working life. My managment experience began as a teen, through my 20's where I served in various capacities for a commercial production company out of Los Angeles among my responsibilities was location and production management. I also ran my own business offering various production related services before moving back to Texas and onto resteraunt managment.
I was invited by this company, I did not ask for this, and did not attempt to hype my credentials in order to receive this offer.
Even though you say it's not an attack it's clear that it is and really has no bearing on the discussion at hand.
Once again I was invited as a consumer who had an outside looking in perspective. I just happened to take this rather seriously and went there with the full intention of proving my point.
And Mtnmama.
As far as the letter is concerned. Actually I already gave the user Snowhunter permission to print a copy of it and hand it to GT at the first meeting I was invited to but could not attend. GT has copies of that letter and apparently others...big deal. It didn't contain anything that I have not said in public unlike other people.
I take full responsibility for things I have said. I own them, and am not afraid to own them. However I also took it a step further. I accepted the challenge provided by this company and took my argument face to face with them and as stated above have learned a few things which has changed my overall perspective of them. That does not mean mistakes have not been made.
The sad fact is, is that you guys want to have someone to blame for these problems but don't want to commend someone for making attempts to change them. Better yet you don't want to do anything to make the improvements yourself other than complain.
As I stated in my post above I challenge you to call GT and ask him those "hard questions" yourself. I did it in person and was surprised at some of the answers.
AG2
[ edited by auctiongallery2 on Mar 13, 2001 03:43 PM ]
posted on March 13, 2001 03:49:20 PM new
AG2:
I am curious if GT said anything about the stolen templates from AW. This was an unlawful thing to do. As for the rest of it, time will tell. If GT wanted to do something really great for his site, he would get rid of half the kool-aid drinkers and stop being one of them playing games and start acting like the head of a company.
posted on March 13, 2001 04:42:58 PM new
MTNMAMA that laugh sounds funny coming from someone who just got thanked on BB Chat by the CEO for "taking up for them here!!"
posted on March 13, 2001 05:18:22 PM new
auctiongallery2:
You say "that you were invited, and that you took it seriously, and went there with the full intention of proving my point".
Did you prove YOUR point? Reading your statements, shows well, what (and who's) kind of point Five Thousand Dollars will prove. Curious?? Did you get cash, or promises of future stock options?
You have an ex congressman as an officer of a company. This person at one time was sworn into the court system of the U.S. to defend freedom of speech (you know - the first amendment) .......NOW, if your 'NEW BEST FRIENDS' don't like what someone say's it is zapped (and has been getting zapped for quite a long time now).......
snakebait made some valid points, that you did not address. What about the Venture Capital? What about the congressman? What about their quiet period? Those were some of the hard questions we know that you asked....why not share those answers with us instead of telling us how your train ride was going. That is what you went for, wasn't it? Or will they pay each of us, one at a time, to stop by and shoot the bull.
The entire thing is a joke.......and by the way, this is the way to spell restaurant.....
