posted on May 31, 2001 01:57:01 PM new
Since the thread about an email attachment has turned to a general discussion of a co-op alternative, I'd like to begin a new thread about it.
Regarding benefits to buyers at a co-op...
I have heard that buyers feel they have no say in, or no benefit from a co-op. That may be a fair argument. My own vision of a co-op is a place where "small" sellers, including casual and hobby sellers, can have protection from eBay. Buyers don't suffer nearly the same problems; in fact, I believe most of the changes at eBay are transparent to buyers. They click on Half.com, see the lowest price, and buy it. They don't see the hoops sellers have to jump through, or the unfavorable policies, or the sellers' expenses.
That is not to say buyers' opinions don't matter. Buyer concerns are important. If I'm a happy K-Mart shopper, and a new Target store is being built next door, certainly I'm going to ask, "what are the benefits to me to shop at Target?" Back when we started discussing a co-op, many ideas were being thrown around. Some of those ideas included a (for profit) seller-owned site, or a buyer membership. I can see a problem with buyers setting policy, because buyers interests and sellers interests are in a certain sense at odds.
One thing we didn't discuss was a "final value discount" for co-op members. That would be strictly a buyer benefit. However, there are problems with this idea. Sellers would need to start their opening higher, which might put their prices above, say, the same item on eBay. Perhaps the co-op could offer a 10% discount to buyers, and then reimburse the 10% to the seller, that money coming from the general membership fund. However, a big ticket item sold at discount to a member would cause a pinch somewhere along the line. Another possibility would be a fixed rebate (say, $5 off any purchase between $100-$500, $20 off any purchase between $500-$1000), the money coming from the membership fund. And buyers would be required to pay a membership due.
My own personal feeling, perhaps I'm overlooking something, is that buyer benefits would be fair prices and a safe, friendly trading environment. If sellers aren't being gouged by eBay, than can afford to pass savings along to customers. For example, I recently listed a keyboard at eBay, and paid nearly $50 in fees. (Actual cost to sell through a co-op: twenty-five cents. That money could have come back to the buyer through lower prices.) Paying customers to shop at the co-op as I suggested above may be good for a promotion, but I'm not sure it could be sustained without a large buyer membership. At any rate, buyer concerns are seller concerns, for sure.
posted on May 31, 2001 04:43:17 PM new
Twinsoft I have been involved in this coop movement from day one.
it has several Walls in its way right now.
Frist and bigest wall of all is the fact that it is trying to interest sellers people already running auctions online be they big sellers or small be they selling on ebay or any other auction site every one small or large already has full time sales running high standards as well even higher then ebay can provide anymore.
here is not only the secret of putting togeather a sucessfull coop auction based site but also the big secert to ebays sucess.
Erase everybodys mind of any online sale or auction they have ever made Online NO Ebay turn your mind back to 1992-93 no per conceived idea of what this auction thing is all about.
Mind and slate are clean Now build your Co-op and auction site based on what you have never seen and has never been done.
Second wall is just like the frist with some added detail everyone we are promoteing this site to is basically already running a sucessfull online auction on ebay and other places.
talk about a new site and as frutrated as these people are they want to to talk about instant sales as good or better then what they are doing now for less $$$ then it took ebay to originally put there classfide pez page up.
here it is 2001 some 6 or 7 years after ebay started this sellers dream of building a world class Co-op auction site for 1993 prices with instant sucess just isnt going to happen on line auctions are no longer an acidental sucess story waiting to happen.
The next wall is that sellers full and small time have a need and a want for what we offer like the Idea of a seller own co-op auction site BUT dont want to lose a single sale to take time to help put it togeather.
Two main things it will take to put this site togeather is TIME & Money and right there you have lost 85% of all interested partys.
Give us 100 people with $1000 and there you have enough to get a server and auction site off the ground now all still must pay listing fees and fvf to keep the site going and then take time to promote what they now own to keep the $$ comeing in to keep the site running and up to date.
Give us 1000 people with $100 to invest same amount of money same results.
give 4000 people with $25 to invest same results.
BUT we have a problem here these are people who are already being taken advatage of by the exsiting online auction comunity and all they see is some one asking for more money.
in all Honesty we dont need to discuss what benifit a co-op would be to sellers, The fact is the co-op movement isnt even looking for sellers or buyers Its looking for interested investors you dont need sellers who will list on the site till there is a co-op built by seller willing to invest to build the auction site.
Give us 16,000 sellers large and small willing to invest $4.50 per year to collectively own a co-op auction venue and this co-op
Ya know there is 21 million or more registered Auction user online 16,000 is not at all far fetched Big trouble is that 99.9% of all expressing interest are not promoteing what they say they are very interested in.
Right at this time we have 400 people investers who have said they are interested.
if each of these people would bring 10 in to the fold and each of them 10 would bring in 10 we would have 40,000 Interested investors.
Each willing to invest $4.50 per year that is 180,000 investment in the frist year to get this site off the ground. if you think this is not enough do you think people would be will to invest $9 per year to be part owner of a co-op auction site this is twelve percent of what the average person pay for there webhosting or online store and domain name every year.
Problem is many have talked few have acted and even less have actually brought another invester into the fold.
Nearly every single person who has express interest and willingness has left the promoteing and building up to a few four or five of us then sit and complain about how its being done.
Lets get out there bring in 32,000 interested in investing $2.50 per year in a seller own co-op auction site.
Bring in 64,000 unhappy ebay user alone that would give $1.50 per year for a auction site that gives them an even playing feild to introduce there items.
Thats right I said Introduce there items to the market I say this because no auction site can sell your Items this is up to each seller to sell and promote there item even ebay cant garentee sales they can just give you a blank page for you to introduce the item on.
I have been at every live chat have answered hundereds of emails from people replyed many many more times then I can count on message boards to the same words this is a great idea I love the Idea the comunications all ends the same keep me informed let me know when this co-op auction site is up and running.
Well How the HEL!@@# do people think it will ever move if your interest dont go far enough to tell others and get then interested.
I mean really if someone were really motivated they might even run auctions selling shares in the coop developement for $1.50 each what a deal buyin to the seller owned co-op auction coop site your benifit a level playing feild to introduce your items to the internet at a resonable price . list with a site where you agree with the changes in policy.
this coop discussions we have heard from the start is a sad state of affairs benifits cant come out till the work and investment goes in.
forget the benfits if your interested put your $4.50 on the table and put in the time needed and guts needed to promote this dam Idea to what amounts to a hand full even of ebay users jamie is calling for 500 but I think 16,000 to 32,000 is not out of line for this size of investment with the returns It can make in the future.
The benifit to anyone in this whole co-op movement is a viable tool to sell and buy Buyers are just a badly treated and effected by changes ebay makes in its move to just get more and more $$$ out of its sellers.
Im not looking for grouchy nasty reply to my post here forget thast bunk life is to dam short if you cant be happy in what your doing why do it so if you have anything negitive to say if you disagree or dont believe a coop has a chance concider yourself invisable to me.
I have gave all to this idea for 5 months even sacrificed list items and selling when I should have been have gave up Over time to be there and answer questions and work in this effort I have donated thousands of dollars in time effort and talent as of this time to this idea Not to mention the many hours in time and effort Promoteing and helping keep this idea moveing forword.
I have already been flamed, cursed, harassed, Insulted and im still here giveing my time talent and effort So the negitive additude wont even phase me even though I am more then sertain that many nay sayers and people who are negtive about this will more then likely benfit more then I ever will.
posted on May 31, 2001 07:57:14 PM new
Dman, you made a lot of good points, more that I can respond to. First, how to interest sellers in a co-op? This is a bit of the chicken and egg. Sellers won't come until a site is successful. A site can't be successful without sellers.
There is dissatisfaction at eBay among sellers. Not just big sellers with their own web sites. The new fees, beginning with the reserve auction fee, are driving the little guys out. You hear about it in the AW forums, and the rest of the sellers, those who don't post here, disappear quietly into oblivion. This time, the fee increase was five or ten cents. What happens when the fees reach fifty cents? And you can bet that day is coming sooner than anyone expects. eBay will take their new storefronts, price them out of our range, and then start hammering the little guys out of existence. I suggest that anyone who thinks eBay will create a level playing field among sellers is kidding themselves.
I believe that the small sellers are the ones who created the eBay community, and are solely responsible for its success. Once word got out, the pros started moving in, and that was the beginning of eBay's demise as we know it. I also believe that the old eBay can be recreated.
Second, regarding fees to start a co-op. Some have suggested that without 10 million in advertising capital, it won't happen. Other suggest a couple of million is the bare minimum. Some say a few thousand is enough, and others think it can be done on a shoestring budget. I don't have a problem investing $100 in a co-op, if I think there is a fair chance of success. But I expect a reasonable amount of professionalism before laying down my money. I'd expect at least a business plan before I pay membership dues.
This very subject was one of the most divisive a few months ago. Finding a person or a few interested people to volunteer to draw up a plan should not be difficult. And yet there were some who wanted to skip this step, and begin soliciting funds immediately without any sort of plan in place or documentation at all. In my opinion, that is financially unsound. If a cooperative can't even come up with a business plan, what business do they have soliciting funds?
posted on June 1, 2001 10:41:17 AM new
Hello Dman,
By George! I think you have figured it out. People are mostly interested in someone else doing the work or risking the money that it invariably takes to establish a successful business.
You can post here and email there until you are blue in the face. Talk is cheap and the talk of others in response to your postings and emails about a co-op are only as cheap as any other chit chat.
You aren't going to get thousands of sellers to pitch in a few bucks to get a co-op established. You might get a few people to pitch in a 100 or even a 1000 a piece to get a bare bones co-op auction site up and running. Possibly with a promise by the co-op to re-imburse these people for their investment once the co-op is established.
Here is a fact for you It is easyer to get $1 out of 10 million little people and with a smile then it is to get $100 out 1 person whos worth millions.
Twin there is no real catch 22 here there is no garenteed sales any where in this world.
the coop frist is not looking for sellers to list Items for sale the coop is a grass roots movement there is no site to have sales on.
We are looking for inerested investors not people to list auctions.
There is no bussiness plan because there is no bussiness as of yet, you persued investers with a concept and an Idea some how make them under stand this is an Idea the time is ripe for.
a coop could spend 50 billion dollars advertizeing and still could not garentee a single sale of an item and that is a fact sad but true.
Forget the idea of what aa coop can do for you untill it is ready to make sales this one is not as of yet.
if you were looking for investment capital for this you would be selling the concept not a bussiness plan the bussiness plan will be ever changeing day to day year to year acording to needs the concept and idea will always be the same.
best anyone can do in this case is draw a picture of the Idea with words.
We have certinly done that now is the time to promote widely the word is out to less then 1 tenth of 1 percent of the internet comunity.
Time to get this Idea out of the small box it has been in and promote it over the internet.
No one is asking for a single dollar from anyone all I said was promise its simple put $9 on your computer desk next to you and get out there and promote this idea to 500,000 or a million more just like you and me get them to set $9 on the table next to them.
the $9 is a garentee of one year investment in this coop Your return will be an safe fair level playing feild to introduce your product to the internet through.
once this is promoted and you have the promises on the table then then its time for the bussiness plan which is also well discussed and fairly basic straight forword.
The goal of any bussiness is to make enough profit to keep running and keep your equiment running, and upgraded pay employees, advertize and bills.
the bussiness plan mainly describes your investments to improve your bussiness forcasted out over two to four year and what your fair estimate of what you think income will be over each year and what the cost of the plan will be and a year to year budget for the plan not really interesting stuff.
the bussiness plan is all projections based on what you think your bussiness will make. A bussiness plan does not mean or say im responable its a lot of guess work based on sales and income you havent made yet.
Then build your server and site this Idea can be started and done for far far less then most believe.
Would it really make my plan look more responable to you if I said Project 3 million a year income and I project I will spend 9 million over three years reinvesting in the bussiness, cost of operateing, wages and advertizeing.
I could break it down more but I think you get the Idea.
How to turn a $9 investment into a 9 million dollar internet bussiness in just three years.
get 1 million people to invest $3 per year in a seller owned Auction coop.
And then like I said the auction site its self dont need that much the highest cost is the start up and to be honest it cant really start on what most would describe as a shoe stiring but you can get a fair site up for about $200 thousand this dont include some people that will need to be hired but it will cover the lions share of the start up costs.
Remember when were done honestly promoteing this most will already have heard of it and many will have already registed membership.
The benifit will be the same for all.
if we could get enough interested in investing most if not all investers will be sellers who would be highly motivated to advertize since there return on investment depends on there selling.
What benfit to buyers well what if the coop were to offered sign up bonuses to the people that give this site its life and return on investment !?!?!
if the site charged fvf of 3 or 4% on sales what if the coop offered buyers a return on there buying and promoteing the coop auction site.
What if you offered member buyers 1% of every $500 or $1000 in sales there account genorates from there buying and the people who register under there name as the person who recomended them.
Make it so that no user can hold more then one buying and one selling acount. There are lots of way that have not even been used to promote online auction buying and selling .....
posted on June 1, 2001 07:19:15 PM new
Hi, Dman. Thanks for sharing your ideas. I think a bonus of some kind for referring new members is a good idea. I would suggest listing credits instead of cash, unless we have the kind of backing Paypal started with. I see this as a kind of grass-roots movement, and for that reason I believe the co-op can be started for practically nothing. Has AuctionPie contact the SBA about loans and free grants? I'm sure there is plenty of free media publicity available, and with the backing of groups like Million Auction March, The Auction Guild and AuctionUsers.org, a lot more support is there.
I am concerned if you are talking about final value fees. If the co-op is charging 3%-4% final value fees, plus a listing fee, plus a membership fee, yada yada, it will be more expensive than eBay, and all the ideology in the world won't bring sellers to the site.
Now we disagree on some points and I'm just going to state my opinion for what it's worth. I'm not asking for any guarantee. However, anyone investing in a co-op expects some level of professionalism. Yes, you can argue that most folks would be willing to "gamble" $10 on a co-op, and even convince their friends to back it. You might be right. On the other hand, if AP has been working on this for six months and still has only an "idea" to present to investors, without any real documentation or plan, I would be concerned about management. Try going to the SBA with an idea. You won't even get in the door. Why should auction users expect any less professionalism? This isn't rocket science we're talking here, it's something a volunteer could come up with in a week or two. Once you have a real, hard copy business plan, then start your membership drive. Hold a press release conference or release materials to the major online and offline news sources. You'll have plenty of support.
If you're looking for volunteers to start up a network, and you know how it can be done, and can do it, I would gladly invest $100. In my mind, that is a "piece of the rock." However, I would not be willing to mail $100 to AuctionPie and cross my fingers that AP management will make appropriate use of it. Get a dozen people to invest $100, get the auction site up and running, then start soliciting funds. As you say, any teenager could do it from his own garage.
posted on June 1, 2001 09:41:26 PM new
Hello Twinsoft, DMan, & Codasaurus,
First, let me tell you I would be interested enough to put $100 in when you start collecting.
With that said, let me say I am also working on a new project, one which also is much bigger than anything I have ever tackled before. I have learned a few things as I build this project:
1. Anything worth doing takes time - and lots of it.
2. Many people want to be involved - few will actually put up money to do so.
3. The right business plan is essential to the success of the project.
4. High powered, expensive attorneys are unnecessary. Stay with one who cares about you.
5. There IS a light at the end of the tunnel. And it is not an oncoming train
I think your idea could be successful. Very successful. You are taking a current idea and making it better. You just need people to believe in you. To do this, I suggest you and the other key people in the co-op begin posting on as many auction boards as possible so you will be seen as people who know what they are talking about. You do not want to just come out of the woodwork and try to get people to follow you. Also, be sure not to make them mad - that would not be good.
I really like the idea of finder's fees for bringing someone into the fold. That way each person has a financial reason to make the co-op grow. It is amazing how fast people talk when there is money in it for them. I am not talking about $5 to sign up - I am talking a small percentage of the fees they pay the co-op going to the person who brought them into the fold.
You are already aware of what people do and do not like about eBay. Kinda like being a fly on the wall ....
Sure, eBay is a very powerful competitor. You may never have more auctions than they do. But really, you only need a percentage of what they have to be profitable.
Do not get discouraged. You are onto something good. It is going to take alot more work, that's all.
Many sellers seem to be trickling away from eBay - and looking for new homes. They are changing their thought patterns from "just eBay" to "eBay and somewhere else". As it gets more restrictive for sellers on eBay, more will leave - and the buyers will follow. You seem to have at least a few powersellers interested. That is an excellent start. Even if they list on eBay and your site, at least you will have items to pull buyers in. More sellers will bring more buyers and so on.
Remember - Rome wasn't built in a day. Neither was eBay.
I have a few ideas I will email to you for promotion as the time gets closer.
Good luck to you and the others working on this - and please don't give up hope. Your hard work will pay off.
If you look at my last two posts in the other coop thread here you would see no SBA grant are needed to get a coop auction network rolling.
The the time it take for each interested part to learn some Html and some programing a full scale coop network can be set up by all interested partys on there exsiting computer for the cost of $14.95 and a dsl of cable hook up.
check this out in a bit looks like they shut the net work down for now.
http://i-mse.com/
This is a net work of seven servers hosting 16 domains includeing 6 different auction site.
all the server in the net work running stadard windows program with a server program
CGI FTP EMail the whole 9 yard all seven servers in the network run On ISDN no fancy servers No T1 been running 16 different full time busnesses includeing banner exchange vitual postcard hosting for on website I meantion the auction sites search engines and much more ans inless some one told you you would not be able to tell the difference in the ISDN speed and ebay other then this site is a tad faster then ebays site.
This network runs of computer are all remote ran right from homes .
4 or 10 interested partys interested in starting could get 24/7 access to the net from cable dsl install the server softare and be up and running seemingly over night.
This stuff dont have to be costly high speed DSL cheap large Harddrives make this a doable task for any group of hobbiest for about $100 each your investment goes into your own computer.
IF you want a just PC software niche sight well there is your part in a auction coop network.
after the server software and cgi info is added to your computer and stuff all you need to do is know how to build a site or go get one of the many free auction site templets already out there ready to put your Info in and use all that is need is a set color scheme and rules to complete a net work.
Then set up member ship fees for other who want to join the net work and listing fees for sellers.
Honest check the URL out . you will see webserver and networks can and are being setup for little to no investment 75% of all website are running this way with windows or linux today.
every one is screaming about the so called big boys comeing to ebay yet keep speaking of filling there pockets with gold.
the reason they are comeing to ebay is because of these fast low cost board band type server that can be built today they are starveing.
posted on June 2, 2001 07:03:10 AM new
Hope you took Time to look at my Exsample network I posted last night.
Keep in mind this is just in genrail term and also could serve as a bussiness plan
Now I dont want to make things look over simplfide just Showing that A coop Auction site can indeed get up and online for about $2000 to $3000 .
There is more to a Co-op then the server (s) and people listing items for sale.
Mind you This coop could still be niche type sites and a neighborhood of auction catagories and store fronts even, as each server put on line in the net work can host many domains and subdomains.
There is still The rules to be setup for the auction site , The coop At this point now for a network you have added another little twist as you will need some guiding rules for Member who wish to add there Server to the network.
The basic plan would be something like all member wanting to add a server there computer would have to meet XXX specs and use the Coops auction template to keep the network looking uniform the softwares upgrades repairs to the server made by the Member owner of the server (Computer) and the cost of the domain name for the server and it conection to the network which should be set as DSL or cable minimum.
All member running servers and there registered domain would need to be linked in the central or Hub coop server.
The central hub would serve to link all the member auction servers togeather have a data base of all items and catagories store fronts and other services coop members setup Online and and a
active in the system.
This would be a good system as one or two servers could drop out of the network but the whole auction network would still be live and running with the rest of the member servers.
Each server has its own Domain it can be seen at as well all can be found from the central data base.
Each searchable on it own or searchable from the hub !!
The central hub could list member servers as they come on and go off line even like ICQ and other messanger services notify you when people on your userlist come on and off line !!
Also each member servers data base would be live updated no waiting like ebay to get in to there search.
Each server should have a keep a back up of there auction this can bew done with a zip drive or other way as well some use CD-r some tape some zip drives.
You now have an online auction Network with many servers running auctions there is always a chance the whole network could crash But the odds get very slim the more servers that come online in fact one server haveing troble that would keep them off line for an extended period of time could get a copy of there auction server to another member and that members auction site can be run from another members server till thiers is back on line there domain and all could be tranfered to another member witin 12 hours.
OK you Said that if the coop Charged listing fees, fvf and membership fees this would make it more exspensive then Ebay which defeats the purpose.
I think you are wrong.
MEMBERS are owner with vested interest member ship fees are to for your vote in changes and so on.
my post set these fees at $9.00 for the whole year for selling members.
As a server member the cost would be set at the cost of running and the up keep of your server and $100 or $200 per year since the auction server is in your computer listing fee would be free as any one knows you can add any listing you want in your own computer for free.
If you were to offer a percentage bounus to buyer based on sales all members would need to pay some form of FVF in my last post I said 3% or 4% now it could be from 2.5% up to 3.5% depending on what items sold for.
the coop could afford to easily offer cash return as all bonuses are based on sales that are made no buying no bonus.
If fvf were the 3% or 4% you could offer 1% of fvf for all direct bids from there account
includeing the people who signed up useing there name.
Since the coop would be only paying bonuses for actual sales the fvf is already being paid if the FVF was 4% you pay the member 1% then 3% goes to the coop if the fvf is 3% then 1% to your buyers 2% to the coop if you set fvf from 2.5% to 3.5% and like other have a $25 FVF on a thousand dollar sale plus a small fvf on anything over $1000 you can figure the buyer bonus and the coop % your self.
We would now have motivated buyers and sellers, Buyer are motivated to promote buying for there return and sellers are motavted to get there sales.
Keep in mind the bonuses are paid to registered buying memberships only of the coop or in other words investers. the more they promote coop buying the more return they get simple.
If a membership is set at $9.00 a buyer member could make back there years member ship with there first $1000 in sales made on there account.
Keep in mind not every seller or buyer many not want to have a membership but many would like to buy and sell in the coop network.
Direct registration Listing fees starting at .25 for item .01 to $9.99 is very fair but it could even be far less then this.
or you could charge .25 for up to $50 start bid.
FVF set at 1.5% or 2.5% up to $1000
Now the server are setup on member computers Sellers actually do own the coop auction site colectively.
The coop does actually benifit buyers from its start up.
The network servers start up is actually under $3000 as it only takes two members to make a network.
SO server are run and kept up by the members running them what are all the fees for.
Well there is broader promotion and advertizeing, there are legal costs customer services There are some aspects of this net work we may need to hire outside to have programed as keeping track of buyer sale and the members they promote to the site the programing for some of these feature can get compilcated but its not something has not been done the programing may already be out there for this.
as the network grows one or more servers may have a need to get biger an exsample would be ther central server for the network once the system get larger there may be need to at the least, lease a dedcated server.
also as he coop goes on it will more then likely want to add more member services.
We have in the past discussed group health insurance.
The coop its self may want to get into selling seller packageing needs like packageing with coop logo boxes evelopesand so on and advertizeing on it. label invoices letter head tape advertizeing the coop. low cost advertizeing.
even might want to offer for sale to members guest and buyer Shirts mouse pads cups mugs jackets.
This might require a member to rent storage space of some type member already pay member ship fees and the up keep of there servers but not all cost related to running the coop be it 800 numbers storage and so on.
Ok now you said if I know how to get a auction network off the ground go for it I have never done all the things I am decribeing.
I have been Designing and programing internet sites for years im not the the best im good if I cant figure something out I can usually find answer no one person can do this but this can be done.
And I know people who can help and have done most of these things.
I also know even though you dont like secerts and lack of detailed information it would not be wise to give all the details of this net work in fact I have already give enough advice and links that any two people reading this message board could set up this network and have one running by next weekend one or two with enough knowlege that is.
posted on June 2, 2001 08:42:42 AM new
Now That I have posted the following and I could get far deeper in to what I have described.
Just where do you draw the line where does public dicussion end to protect the rights of the this coop to the Idea.
If It were to let more details out in public Why would any have need of membership to join this coop owned auction site or network if two or more could do there own how could a any copy write to this coop be protected when all of it componets are basically open source on the internet already ????
The whole basic genral bussiness plan laid out right here in open form Are you still a belever that a more detailed bussiness plan liad out in open form and more detailed discussion is wise in a public form or would you be more inclined to have a setup like the vintage coop out there and not give more details inless you register for membership First????
its one thing to promote an Idea and build interest its another to give your Idea away to million for free, they can jump right on and copy cat you and benfit from the Idea and the concept with out the work we have already put in to this venture.
BY the way I just want to add that the coop Auction network I just laid out is
Not what AuctionPie Jamie is promoteing infact this lay out an network plan will be suprise to Him cathy Shaz and anyone else that has been working on promoteing this coop movement as it is the frist time it I have ever discussed or liad out this Idea to anybody.
But it is as good as viable as any plan thought of or discussed now or in the past and 100X more doable and afordable for sellers then any Idea being discussed at this time.
And to set the record even more straight I am not The spokes person for AuctionPie Though I am at this time the editor for the AuctionPie website all the Idea and features on the sight are from other members sent to me by jamie or Shaz .
So if there is any part of this Plan Network or Idea you dont agree with dont hang the other Spokes person(s) or coop organizers for it its the frist time they have seen it as well.
I my self concider my self a netural party not firmly behind any one coop organizing at this time or any time in the past.
I am a small time seller have been selling frist on yahoo and then on ebay for 18 months my sales run from $25 to $70 per month mainly on ebay.
I have for the last 5 month donated all my time talent and skills to the Idea of a Coop that stands to benifit all in the Auction comunity sellers and buyer up to this time Very willingly even at times at the cost of time to my personal life and family.
BUT No one can continue to give hundereds and even thousands of hour of valuable time talent and skill away for ever at the cost of all else.
anyone with any sense will know this.
We Really need to get this Idea in motion people need to put there Ego The Hel!@#@ away stop wearing there emotions on the cuff.
we need to incourage the positive and ignore the negtive no one person or group ever got any bussiness venture off the ground surounded by there negitive friend or others they cut off there negitivity and surounded them selves with all other sucessfull and positive people kept there self esteem high and never looked back, Trust and a postive veiw is a must.
Putting togeather one large server for this coop and geting all members to agree on anything is going to be difficult to near imposable I know I been there working on that one nearly half a year beileve me its a no win situation.
But if all interested in members to own there own server and coop auction site I think the agreements and trust would be far easyer to come by since you are asking none to send any money to any one untill there server and site is up and reviewed based on coop server rules.
Each member would be responable for there site and would know just how easy or dificult any Idea or change will be to make and what the over all cost and posiable return on the investment to them and the coop and its users (sellers and buyer) would be.
Yes I say return even if its setup as nonprofit a profit will be needed to Run Members with server will need to get sales to make there profit and keep there servers running.
Buyers would need to keep promoteing to keep there return comeing in and profit will be needed to grow as a comunity of coop user and as network.
I cant say I will ever give up the hope of a coop getting started I do believe in the Idea I do believe Auction sells can actually build a auction site that can sell there item It may never be of Ebay fame but ebay will fall from the top to someone in the chain of sights comeing up , I believe a cooporation in a coop could be the key...
How every in the future I may have to add fees for my services skill and consulting.
No one wants to continue giveing valuable service and time away to something that every time they see presented turns into a free for all of negitive additude and people tossing digs at each other or takeing every statement made personally.
I will continue to show suport for a coop but no one wants to give up there time and talent to work in continual deadlock climbing walls there is no end to for ever and for free to boot offering them selves and there talent day and night to see the same Sh@@$@t Time and time again.
Im not saying I want to punish all if you want to call it that for a few people but as I look in the feild I see not One inocent of some or all I have mentioned and some things I have not mentioned.
These are my thoughts and opinion try not pinning them to anyone else.
With what you now know of me from my posts you can see why & how no matter how much time or effort I put into this idea no matter what Ideas or plans are used the nay sayers and others will more then likely benifit from the coop more then this small time seller who works 90 to 100 hours a week between a full time job auction sales and working with this coop Idea.
posted on June 2, 2001 09:27:08 AM new
Dman, I haven't had a chance to read your post above yet, but I read the previous post and checked out that web site. I also read about the necessities for setting up a web server.
I've got to run now, I'm taking the kids to the beach & boardwalk today. But just let me say that was very thought provoking. I'm computer literate, I don't know anything about networking but I could learn pretty quickly I guess. Thanks much for posting that info and I'll be back tomorrow.
posted on June 2, 2001 05:34:52 PM new
MrsSantaClaus-Thank you for the encouragement. Your right, there is light at the end of the tunnel- even if it still just a tiny pinpoint.
We are still doing our budget and financials and are lining our legal ducks up. We have always felt that this is a business decision for members- not just an "I hate eBay" decision-although dissatisfaction with eBay is a fact.We won't be eBay- but think about it- who wants to be??
If you have any promotional ideas you would like to share with us-please do contact us at the Vintage Marketplace Cooperative.Thank you.
posted on June 2, 2001 07:49:53 PM new
Well, we've had a searing heat wave for the past 10 days, just broke yesterday. The beach was sunny and warm, we had fun. There was a crowd of several thousand folks by late afternoon.
posted on June 10, 2001 03:57:38 AM new
Hi, Dman. I'd like to take an opportunity to respond to some comments you made in your second post above. I've been doing some reading about co-op principles and history at the International Cooperative Information Center (Cooperative Principles for the 21st Century) and I'm finding it fascinating.
You spoke about building a "successful" auction site, and also mentioned successful sellers (not wanting to leave eBay). What is success? What is a successful auction site?
To be successful, an auction site should facilitate sales for its members (for example, through advertising). But that is not the primary goal of the commercial sites. Their goal is to make money for their owners (or investors). The goals of the co-op, on the other hand, are self-help (self-determination) and self-realization through the benefits of working honestly and openly with others. It's interesting to note that the modern-day co-op movement began in a small goods store in Manchester, England in the early 1800's. What set that store apart from others was the philosophy of its owners.
So I think one thing we need to address, with regard to the question of a successful auction site, is what are its goals? Obviously there is no simple answer to this question. However, I want to emphasize that the primary goal of a co-op is to benefit its members, whereas the primary goal of a commercial site is to benefit its owner.
You also raised the issue of lack of interest from successful sellers on eBay. You pointed out that many successful sellers aren't willing to lose sales, or expend energy promoting the co-op. I agree with you on that. Why would a successful eBay seller want to join the co-op? At the risk of offending some, this is kind of like asking why would a rich landowner join an agricultural co-op? The people who could most benefit from a co-op are not those making hand over fist on eBay, but those who are being displaced by the ever-increasing fees and unfair policies.
Your idea of everyone taking $10 and putting it on the desk beside them, and then promoting the co-op to their friends, is exactly what the whole co-op movement is about. We already know that anyone can start an auction site with practically no money out of pocket. Here's a free auction software that is open-source, and that can be run by anyone with server space:
What sets co-ops apart from other commercial enterprises is their philosophy of self-help (through working with others), education of members regarding co-op issues, and concern for community. A co-op's success is far more dependant on its membership than on any amount of advertising capital.
That is not to say that a co-op can function without capital. I am trying to draw a contrast between co-ops and commercial enterprises. Can a co-op succeed? There are tens of thousands of functioning co-ops in existance, with over 750 million members worldwide. In England, there are co-op banks worth over a billion dollars. In the United States, the co-op movement and especially the "Co-op Store" is huge. These co-ops are made up of ordinary people who banded together to escape monopolies created by rich industrialists.
History doesn't change that quickly. Ask anyone in California who saw their electric bill double and triple overnight. The more I read about co-operative unions, the more I believe this is just what is needed by thousands or even millions of auction sellers currently paying billions each year to eBay and Yahoo.
To me, a co-op auction site would be successful if it provided a low-cost means for individuals to provide for themselves and their families. I don't see the co-op in competition with eBay. (Not that it matters, because eBay is moving away from auctions.) I see it more as a way for us to take control of our own destinies.
