This is the thread to ask us any questions you wish.
No holds barred however I have Twinsoft, Pocono, and Codasaurus on Ignore. I am asking them not to post here and I'm asking Auctionwatch to enforce this.
Feel free to ask any other questions you wish. We are not a sham. We have not lied to anyone and stand by everything we have said. Our site is also in the process of being updated with further info as well. This has been explained in our last Newsletter.
Hope this clarifies things for all who want a seller based, supported, and governed site.
Thanks,
Jamie Gilcig
Auctionpie.com
[ edited by canvid13 on Jun 12, 2001 05:08 PM ]
I will not lock this thread but please be aware that we will not allow you to exclude anyone from a thread. It is outside the bounds of basic etiquette to even suggest such a thing.
Joice
[email protected]
**edited from locked to unlock.
[ edited by joice on Jun 12, 2001 05:20 PM ]
posted on June 13, 2001 04:43:47 AM new
Thanks for the clarification Joice. I will simply leave these three on ignore.
Hi Folks,
Again, we will only be answering questions about Auctionpie here in this thread.
Sharon tried to explain things in another thread here on AW but we will be dealing with any of your questions here.
As Sharon mentioned we still are standing by our basic philosophy of being a seller's site. This has been a long and winding road and we're almost where we want to be.
Again, we have never asked for or accepted any funds from anyone. Everything we do is by the book. We are certainly not out to misrepresent ourselves which is why we released this info in our newsletter and broke it here!!
When we do start our membership drive or do anything with the public we want all of the facts on the table.
We also will be releasing our bylaws and structure as it's available and ready for public consumption.
posted on June 13, 2001 12:34:02 PM new
I do not feel that people asking honest questions like are you a co-op is a good reason to ignore or band them. If this is Auctionpies policy then I feel it is unfair. Auctionpie is not a co-op from what I understand now but like many others I have been lead to believe that, that is what it was going to be. The fact is I was not informed other wise till the people you have on ignore talked about it. But I still would like to know who is the owner of Auctionpie because that is the only vote that will count in the long run. I still do not believe or feel this auction site will be any different then any other it will be driven by the dollar and for the dollar. The person or people that own it will deside what is done with it voteing is nice but only one vote will truly count. I would go to the site but what would be the use I would probley be put on ignore anyway. Looks like Auctionpie has its work cut out for it. But once again I wish you luck and lots of money. Have a nice buying/selling day.
posted on June 13, 2001 12:55:34 PM new
Hi Telwil,
Sorry you feel this way. The ingnore button is on these three posters because for the last several months they have been extremely disruptive and negative towards me personally. I'm even more sorry for having to do that than anyone else. It's really not my style but it's the advice I recieved from an AW mod.
The posts are all here on AW for you or anyone to look up. It's simply been constant grief and I felt there was no choice for myself.
You make some points which I'd like to address.
When I started along with a few other folks we started out to build a co-op. Since that time there are have been three other smaller groups (that I know of) started from within the auspices of this Auctionpie. We seem better at founding co-op groups than founding co-ops!
We also have recieved hundreds of emails over the past several months and as many posts here on AW and our own message board and that of a few other groups whom I won't mention as I'm not sure if AW allows for that.
It's been an evolution. I set out with some goals and found some like minded people. When I took what I wanted to do the the lawyers they basically spelled out for me the options that were available to effect these goals.
After reviewing the situation this is the path that I and Auctionpie have decided to follow.
It wasn't an easy decision. I knew that there would be some difficult feelings because there are more folks than you think who want an seller run, supported, and goverened alternative. I felt it was important though to be upfront with everyone which is why this information was released in our Newsletter and here on Auctionwatch.
When I started, a few hecklers chastised me for not stepping forward as leader of this group. Well I did this awhile ago and this is part of leading.
I'm not going to make any big promises. I'm not here for promotional activities. What I'd like to do is clarify things which is what I'm trying to do now for yourself and others.
So in a sense, you're correct. Auctionpie is going to be another Auctionsite. I think it's going to be a lot more. We are building in some amazing opportunities for sellers and bidders.
Our goals are the same. We want to build a seller based site that's seller driven, seller goverened and seller created. We still will have category sections goverened by groups of sellers like a Senate. We will not change any fee structures in any way without a vote from our membership as laid out in our charter.
We will still help to endeavor all to have a place that they can not only auction their products off in a safe enviorment, but also be able to build their businesses as they see fit and that includes links to their web sites and stores. We are currently discussing partnering with a few companies to build a site that will be much more than an auction venue.
We are not going to go public. We do not have investors as such who will be the deciding factor in policy. As a matter of fact, to date I am the only person to spend any money on Auctionpie. The bottom line is the selling and buying experiance.
I am one person. Some folks like my work and some don't. Same thing goes for Sharon and anyone else who works with Auctionpie. It's the whole entity that you have to look at.
Thanks all and feel free to ask specific questions so that I or Sharon don't have to write long posts like this!
posted on June 13, 2001 01:26:12 PM new
Thank you for the reply. I still would like to know the name of the owner or is it going to be owned and operated by stockholders or investors and if that is the case what is the name of the Prez and will there be a board of directors? I have more questions but feel I am takeing up to much of your time. Have a nice buying/selling day.
posted on June 13, 2001 01:40:08 PM new
Hi Telwil,
Right now the ownership group is limited to those internal to Auctionpie. We will most likely be partnering with a few companies who will have a stake in AP.
There will be a board of directors of which reps from the Seller's group and perhaps even the buyers groups will have the opportunity to have a seat. I am at the moment the Big Kahuna!
I or anyone else here at AP do not have the monopoly of Auction know how. Imagine though if we can harness the combined know how of thousands of sellers??
Space and time don't allow me to elaborate at the moment. All of this will be released on our site as we evolve.
When we start our membership drive it will not be a blind yes that we ask of folks.
Hope that helps, and any serious question that we can answer we will. (ok, even some goofy ones too!) Don't be shy. We all want to be open here.
posted on June 13, 2001 04:14:10 PM new
Canvid has stated twice that Auctionpie "broke the news" of this policy turn-around here on AuctionWatch. That is not true. I was the one who raised the issue, after receiving a forward of AP's newsletter.
I would like to state here that since beginning this discussion a few days ago, I have become associated with another auction site. In light of that association, I think it would be inappropriate for me to continue to address AP issues. Hopefully enough information has been provided for users to make their own informed decision. But I can no longer play AP watchdog.
My only concern is the the co-op movement. It has nothing to do with personalities.
. Online Auction Sellers Co-op
posted on June 13, 2001 05:54:08 PM new
I simply want to state that I am in no way affiliated with AuctionPie, either now, in the past (except for a few board posts early-on), nor in the future.
Apparently there has been some confusion on that point, and I merely want to make a public clarification of that.
I have deleted your post because it contains a quote from another site, which is inappropriate for the AW Message Center. Please do not post in like manner again.
Pat
[email protected]
[ edited by pattaylor on Jun 13, 2001 06:42 PM ]
We are only going to answer questions or discuss issues. I will personally answer questions from anyone other than the three posters I have on ignore.
I also wish to confirm that Toyranch has nothing to do with our site and never has other than some friendly conversation.
We also are not here to defend ourselves and won't as we've done nothing to misinform or advertise ourselves in anyway. If you look at our publicity of late you will see that we stopped calling ourselves a co-op for awhile.
Irene: I'm not sure which right you are talking about? You have every right to ask any polite question. However I'd like to ask you to clarify when you offer an opinion.
We have gone out of our way to make sure we don't misrepresent ourselves which is of course why this thread is here!
Powerhouse: Perhaps one day we can find a slice of pie which is more to your liking!
I would like to ask all again to please keep this question and answer thread as respectful as you'd wish to be treated. I'd like to see if we can manage without causing the modererators to much grief!
Again, we're here to answer questions and inform, not argue!
posted on June 13, 2001 07:46:53 PM new
Hmmm...now let me see if I have this correct. You're here to answer questions...but only from people who haven't already asked questions you don't wish to lucidly answer...and then only the questions you want to answer?
The phrase "Hope this clarifies things for all who want a seller based, supported, and governed site" is somewhat of a misnomer than isn't it...I mean the important issues of seller basis, support and government are not being clarified.
Even having not followed the whole situation, it sounds like someone wanted a lot of free help to get something started, and now wants to completely privatize operations for their own profits.
Wow...sign me up for AP right away!
Perhaps you'd best also reserve the cowpie.com domain as well...may turn out to be useful in the near future.
posted on June 13, 2001 08:07:12 PM new
Redcircle: Do you have a question?? We are answering everyone's polite questions except for three folks on ignore.
Thanks for your suggestions and if you actually would like to post a questions we'd more than happy to answer.
Your repeated references to the three people you have on ignore are unproductive, and border on being combative. You've made your point; there's no need to hammer it home repeatedly.
posted on June 13, 2001 08:49:25 PM new
If indeed Auctionpie is operated out of Montreal, they could very well lose everything in battling Quebecs absurd yet vigorously policed language laws in court. Read this article-- http://www.canoe.ca/TechNews0012/18_que-cp.html
So my question is point blank-- who *owns* Auctionpie and why is that information being protected and hidden under blanket statements such as "ownership group is limited to those internal to Auctionpie"?
posted on June 14, 2001 03:36:28 AM new
Morning All!
Dimview: Auctionpie will not be a Canadian Corporation. There will be a factoring into the corporation for members but this has not been decided legally yet. It's about how to do it. And it's not very easy in legalese. I can say clearly what I want but you should see what happens when the lawyer gets ahold of it!! Please email me if you get a chance!
relayerone: Geez, we're seeing a lot of new names to this discussion!
There's nothing secretive. I am the chief shareholder of AP. The ink is not wet on any papers yet and we still have finalizing contracts with partners. The other shareholders are folks like Sharon Cross and companies that we are partnering with for support and maintenance.
We are not accepting investors as this is to be a seller supported and governed site. And yes, we are designing in a method of benefit for not only our seller members but also our bidder members!
Also, please note I am not a lawyer. And I'm not big on making statements or promises unless I'm completely sure of them, so if I seem vague to you please understand that my intention is simply to not err or misinform.
As for the Quebec thing. Well it is a wacky place politically but it's very stable contrary to certain folks opinions. It's also a beautiful place to visit especially around the Jazz and Comedy fests. Great food, great nightlife and the Canadian buck is worth crap! So come and visit!
However the tax structure in Canada and Quebec will most likely preclude us setting up shop there. From my understanding we will most likely be a Deleware Corporation like Amazon and other companies with offices most likely in New York State and elsewhere. We probably will also have a Canadian office and UK office as we really believe in being International. That is where the big expansion in this business is going to come from.
Question #1 - Will YOU profit even ONE CENT from AP under the NEW structure?
Question #2 - Will YOU profit even ONE CENT MORE then anyother seller on AP?
Question #3 - Please disclose the name of the lawyer/law firm under who this business is being constructed.
Question #4 - Will AP be One Member/One Vote, as has been hammered into our minds from day one? or has that changed?
Question #5 - How does AP plan to compensate those that did all the planning/work for AP, or are they just out of luck?
Question #6 - Did you mean it when you stated elsewhere, that you should scrap the co-op idea, and go for the "big bucks" yourself?
I have many more questions, but I am sure that you will not respond to any of them...
I also am guessing that you and AW came to some sort of an agreement, since you can batter other users, and those of us trying to warn of APs practices are quickly hushed and deleted by the mods here ...
posted on June 14, 2001 07:43:25 AM new
I'm both disappointed and understanding over this new direction.
Disappointed that a structure will not exist for sellers to work together in a non-profit/co-op format.
Understanding that the specific goals of this group now dicate that they use a different business structure in light of the realities within the marketplace.
Any thing that contributes to "Life Beyond eBay" can be a help.
I'll tell you right out, and I can't speak for anyone else, but my main interest in this endeavor from the very beginning was that it would be a co-op. And being completely honest here, I didn't think it would work as a co-op. BUT, the IDEA of a co-op IS what interested me. The IDEA of sellers running the place in a cooperative effort was appealing to me.
Since the cooperative nature of this idea is really the only thing that made it interesting to me at all (otherwise, it's just another for profit auction site) Could you please elaborate, IN DETAIL as to EXACTLY how the members will participate in running this site?
posted on June 14, 2001 09:58:20 AM new
Hi Nanastuff: We are updating the site and hopefully will have it back up soon.
Thanks Reston Ray. Certain folks think that this is easy. It hasn't been to this stage and it won't get any easier as we go along.
Now we are dealing with a certain element of person who thinks after everything I and our group has been through that we have now become moneygrubbers. We still stand by our beliefs and goals, we just have found that we have to take this route to achieve them.
If some of these folks had bothered to help instead of hinder we may have had a chance to work in this framework but the lack of working support has been pretty abysmal. From my research I don't see any other of the co-op groups getting much more working support.
I am willing to work with any group and that includes true co-ops. For any site to be successful though it will need to have consistent funding and management. As a matter of fact I am hoping to have AP have a Universal search engine that includes members stores and listings on other sites. I also believe that AP can be more successful by working with other sites and groups than by not.
So far the best supported group I've seen was the trail that Reston Ray started and that was a very pleasant sight to see.
So I took some advice and to use a 12 step motto decided to KISS. "Keep it simple S"
My honest feeling is that if there was a true co-op in the true sense of the word and practical operation of a co-op it wouldn't be supported by most sellers small or large.
That doesn't mean that we don't have similiar goals but at some point someone has to end discussion and take action within a group. And if that person is voted out every few months or if there are power struggles left, right, and center, the group as a whole will never suceed.
My and Auctionpie's email recieved is almost 13:1 in support of our efforts up until now. Here on AW it's 2:1 against and from people that most likely won't support any group!
Maybe Auctionwatch or messageboards are the wrong places to discuss these issues?? I really want to hear from folks. I'd really like to hear from folks who have been hesitant to post too!
So yes, Auctionpie is going to be a corp. Yes, its owners will recieve a profit if the site is successful. Yes members will govern the site and have voting rights. No, it will not be one member one vote over every single issue as each member will not own 1 share of the company because that would pretty much mean we would be a public company and we will not attempt to go public. The only factor we want to affect AP is the sucess of its members. If the site works well and people are happy we will have lots of members and enough resources to make it the best supported Auction site on the net. That is one of our main goals!
The people that have worked at AP and are now in a point role will be compensated for their efforts.
I'm really trying to be open folks. Feel free to ask any questions.
posted on June 14, 2001 10:06:31 AM new
canvid13 >
So yes, Auctionpie is going to be a corp. Yes, its owners will recieve a profit if the site is successful. Yes members will govern the site and have voting rights. No, it will not be one member one vote over every single issue as each member will not own 1 share of the company because that would pretty much mean we would be a public company and we will not attempt to go public. The only factor we want to affect AP is the sucess of its members.
No, both public and private corporations have shareholders.
Will the "members" be shareholders?
If not, please elaborate on the terms "members" and "shareholders".
posted on June 14, 2001 10:36:20 AM new
Geez, I'm doing Q&A on three boards at once!
Hi Dimview,
Our charter has not been finished yet so I feel a bit iffy on commenting. What's on the board now is that members will not be owners of AP. Right now I am the chief owner with a few other parties owning pieces.
What's being worked on is that members will recieve benefits from the companies success. More of this will be public as it's available in our Newsletter. I'm not trying to dodge this, it's simply that we don't want to mislead anyone in anyway and until the law folks say we're ok we can't say so!
RM: I want AP to be the most comfortable site for sellers. What I want is a sort of Senate created by sub-category. IE: Video sellers will vote for reps who will have a voice in how AP spends it's marketing resources, sub-categories, needs, and things relevant to their groups. The fact is that the experiance of sellers is what I feel will make AP work. Not my humble efforts at the moment. I'm simply trying to harness these goals and abilities.
posted on June 14, 2001 10:46:52 AM new
canvid13 >
Our charter has not been finished yet so I feel a bit iffy on commenting. What's on the board now is that members will not be owners of AP. Right now I am the chief owner with a few other parties owning pieces.
I'm translating this as there is a distinct difference between "members" and "shareholders". Shareholders, correctly, own and therefore will have voting rights in the company. AuctionPie already has several shareholders.
I think you are going to get bogged down with having members vote too, particularly since their interests may well conflict with those of the shareholders.
posted on June 14, 2001 11:14:35 AM new
So, members will govern the site by electing representatives who will then advise the management as to what decisions should be made?
However, in the end, the final decisions will always be up to management, correct?
too!) Don't be shy. We all want to be open here.
