posted on September 13, 2000 02:09:08 PM new
Question: Can the fees PayPal charges be passed on to buyers as a "convenience" fee? I know that you can not do that with credit cards, but PayPal is not a credit card -- many of the transactions are from one PayPal account to another?
Buyers wouldn't be thrilled but might be willing to pay the small fee in place of the money order fee (and the hassle of standing in line).
What's the official answer on this one, paypaldamon?
posted on September 13, 2000 02:53:33 PM new
Just like BillPoint states you cannot pass their charges along & they are a "convenience" entity as well, I would not think you can directly pass this on to customers.
Now, most sellers either pay for their merchant fees either by increasing their starting price or by covering it out of the general profit margin.
But you could really find yourself in a bind if someone challenged you passing their credit card charge fees back to them.
posted on September 13, 2000 03:03:42 PM new
So are you saying that PayPal takes no position on this issue? Unlike Billpoint, the current PayPal TOS say nothing on this point.
As far as being buyer friendly, I don't think this recent move by PayPal was particularly friendly to its customers. If I can't pass on the fees, I will stop using PayPal. The only problem is that I have auctions that run until 9/17 that have PayPal listed as an acceptable payment method. I guess I'll have to tell them they'd better pay before I close my account on Sept. 30!
posted on September 13, 2000 04:58:14 PM new
I want to respond to the accusation that PayPal somehow lied about its policy. This is untrue and unfair.
The login reminder page restates a policy that has been in place for months. The facts:
1. Below, in full, is the email that we sent to users in July. The relevant portion clearly states that "businesses using PayPal are required by our terms of use to create a Business Account."
2. A clear "Rules" box on our "Personal vs. Premier/Business Account" page (which highlights the differences between account types) states the requirement that businesses must sign up for a business account. This box has been on our site since June.
3. Our terms of use have also stated for weeks that if you are using PayPal to conduct "e-commerce on a regular basis," you need to sign up for, or upgrade to, a Premier or Business account.
We have always said that PayPal is free for personal use. That remains true today. We have also always said that business use requires a Premier or Business account.
I realize that there are a number of occasional sellers who want clarification on what constitutes business use. Obviously, there is a big difference between the occasional seller who sells one beanie babie a month, and a seller who sells dozens of items per month. Today's reminder was only directed at sellers who conduct e-commerce on a regular basis.
It is not possible for PayPal to subsidize these businesses and continue to provide this service for all.
From: PayPal News [[email protected]]
Date: Saturday, July 8, 2000
Subject: Important news about your PayPal account
Dear [FIRSTNAME],
Last month we wrote to tell you about the launch of
PayPal’s new Premier and Business Accounts. These
accounts included premium features such as 24/7 customer
service support and an automatic daily sweep of funds into
your bank account. And we also promised you that many
more premium tools were still to come. Now, we at X.com are
pleased to deliver PAYPAL'S LATEST SET OF FEATURES for
Premier and Business users:
· Web Accept: accept payments directly on your website
· Auction Tools: new ways to manage your online auctions
with ease
· Batch Pay: send affiliate payments to thousands of
people at once
· Downloadable Transaction Log
· Unlimited Credit Card Payments
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
ACCEPT MONEY ON YOUR HOMEPAGE
Our new Web Accept tool lets you accept payments directly
on your website. By posting Web Accept buttons on your
web pages, BUYERS CAN PAY YOU FOR PURCHASES WITH PAYPAL
INSTANTLY -- without leaving your site. Accepting
payments online has never been easier! (Pricing for this
feature is only a modest 1.9% on payments received, with
no flat fee.) Learn more about Web Accept by going to
our website:
https://secure.paypal.x.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/web/index-outside
Also, our Business Account users now will have NO LIMIT ON
CREDIT CARD FUNDS RECEIVED. Buyers who have reached their
PayPal $2,000 credit card spending limit can still charge
their card when sending a payment to Premier and
Business users.
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
AUCTION MANAGEMENT TOOLS
Collect auction payments quickly and easily with INSTANT
PURCHASE FOR AUCTIONS. This feature lets buyers pay you
simply by clicking on a logo in your auction listing; this
generates a pop-up form where buyers can enter their PayPal
username and password to pay you without even having to
login to our website. Also new, our AUTOMATED PAYMENT
REQUEST creates online invoices that you can distribute to
your winning bidders. It's fast -- you can send out 100
invoices in just 10 minutes! Visit our website to learn
more about our new auction tools for Premier and Business
Account users: http://www.paypal.x.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/auc/auction-business-tools-outside
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
SEND PAYMENTS THROUGH BATCH PAY
Now pay hundreds -- even thousands -- of people all at
once with X.com’s new Batch Pay tool. If you run an
AFFILIATE PROGRAM, A COUPON/REBATE PROMOTION, OR A
"PAY-TO-SURF" COMPANY, you no longer have to depend on
expensive and slow check runs to pay your customers --
Batch Pay can do it for you. (Batch payment transactions
cost the lesser of 2% or $0.25 per payment, far below
the cost of printing and mailing a check.) For more
information on X.com's Batch Pay, go to:
http://www.paypal.x.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/batch-outside.
And for those of you who participate in a "pay-to-surf"
or affiliate program, be sure to tell your administrator
you'd like to BE PAID WITH PAYPAL!
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
PREMIUM FUNCTIONALITY
In addition to all the features available on PayPal
personal accounts, Premier and Business users can take
advantage of these other special features and services:
· A DOWNLOADABLE TRANSACTION HISTORY available in
Quicken, QuickBooks, and comma-delimited text formats.
· Automatic sweep of your PayPal balance into your bank
account at the end of each day. (This feature is optional
and carries a modest 0.6% fee.)
· A 24-hour-a-day, 7-days-a-week exclusive customer service
hotline.
· Frequent special promotions, such as last month’s "Free
Listing Week."
· Automatic eligibility for X.com's AFFILIATE PROGRAM.
· Many Business Account users will be eligible to be
featured in our upcoming SHOPPING TAB, where over 2.5
million PayPal users will be able to make instant, online
purchases directly from you.
For more information on all the features vailable to Business
and Premier users, please visit our site:
https://secure.paypal.x.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/personal_vs_business-outside
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
It’s fast and simple to upgrade your personal account in
order to take advantage of these premium features. Please keep
in mind that businesses using PayPal are required by our terms
of use to create a Business Account. To upgrade, just login to
your PayPal account and click on the "Upgrade Now" button. The
upgrade process only takes a couple of minutes, and you’ll be
able to use our new payment tools immediately.
We appreciate your choice to use X.com’s PayPal service to send
and receive money, and thanks for helping to make PayPal the #1
payment service on the Web!
posted on September 13, 2000 05:18:07 PM new
brezinaj,
From ebay's guidelines.
[i]Credit Card Surcharges
An eBay seller may not charge a fee, often called a "credit card surcharge," when accepting credit card payments. This surcharge, which is an added cost to the buyer over and above the final sale price and shipping/handling, is not allowed under the laws of many states, including California.[/i]
paypaldamon,
You'd best add something like this to your TOS...it is NOT legal to make a charge a fee & similar language is found on the MasterCard & VISA sites.
The "at the discretion of" answer COULD get you in hot water with those companies if they don't feel you are supporting their rules regarding this.
edited to also include the direct link to ebay's rules about this.
posted on September 13, 2000 05:48:04 PM new
G'Evening,
Hmm so how about this "I only accept Paypal Payments for Guaranted Shipped within 24 Hours Shipments for your convenience in case you need the Item quickly. There will be a 2% Shipping and Handling Fee for this Service"
You are not charging them a Surcharge for the use of a Credit Card but for Quick Packing and Shipping.
posted on September 13, 2000 10:28:25 PM new
I think it's alright as long as you get creative in what you call the surcharge or if you charge it uniformally to non-paypal users also.
I suggest .50¢ express shipment fee, since paypal users (should) have their item shipped faster.
posted on September 13, 2000 10:54:43 PM new
Hi
Correct me if I am wrong but technically you are not accepting credit cards. Buyer is putting money into HIS/HER account and sending you money from their paypal account not directly from their charge card. How do you know where the money comes from that a buyer sends you? They may just have an excess balance in their account that someone else beamed them. Just a thought that credit card rules might not apply.
Snip
posted on September 13, 2000 11:24:36 PM new
If we start passing the cost on to buyers, the feedback from that would be just as great or greater than the feedback sellers are giving Paypal right now. Paypal won't have to listen to much of that feedback, but sellers sure will.
Just a thought,
Del
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill
posted on September 14, 2000 06:36:07 AM new
Damon:
And here's the email from JUNE, in which PayPal clearly states the the UPGRADE WILL NOT BE FORCED. (look for the BOLD)
And it's ALWAYS FREE ...
PayPal is proud to announce the unveiling of our new, redesigned website. We've simplified the navigation, improved the
appearance, and -- best of all -- added a host of new features:
* Premier/Business Accounts for businesses, groups, and individuals
* $100,000 of free insurance on every account * Easier ways to include a PayPal logo in your auctions
* Faster, easier bank account transfers
* PayPal for mobile phones
* And Much More!
Check it out at http://www.paypal.com!
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
NEW! PREMIER/BUSINESS ACCOUNTS
PayPal's new PREMIER/BUSINESS ACCOUNT is the easiest way for businesses and groups to send and receive money online. E-commerce has never been easier!
Premier/Business Accounts include all the benefits of your current PayPal Personal Account PLUS the following PREMIUM
FEATURES:
* Ability to do business under a corporate or group name.
* Exclusive 24-hour-a-day, 7-day-a-week CUSTOMER SERVICE HOTLINE.
* Automatic sweep of your PayPal balance into your bank account at the end of each day. This feature is optional and carries a modest 0.6% fee.
And in the weeks and months ahead, PayPal will be launching many new features for Business/Premiere Accounts, including:
* Download your transaction history into QuickBooks or Excel.
* Accept PayPal payments on your own website.
* Make mass payments by uploading a batch file of your recipients' email addresses.
* Receive interest on your account balances.
* Optional ATM/Debit cards and checks.
* Frequent special promotions, like free listing days on eBay and double ($10) referral bonuses.
* And, most important of all,Premier/Business Account members will be FEATURED IN OUR UPCOMING SHOPPING TAB, where over 2 million PayPal customers will be able to make instant, online purchases from your business.
Pricing on a Premier/Business Account is only 1.9% on payments received, with NO FLAT FEE. That's less than half of what you'd pay with other payment services. (For instance, eBay's Billpoint (TM) starts at 3.5% plus $0.35 per transaction.) Plus, all
Premier/Business Account holders continue to get a $5 bonus for every referral, and our $5 signup bonus lets businesses effectively offer a $5 savings to all first-time buyers at no cost!
For businesses and groups already enjoying the use of a Personal Account, it's easy to upgrade to a Premier/Business Account.
Just log in to your account and click the "UPGRADE" button. It takes less than a minute. New users can sign up by going to
https://secure.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_business-register.
Premier/Business accounts are also available to individuals who would like to take advantage of the premium features. However, no one will be forced to upgrade to a Business/Premier Account. Personal Accounts will remain FREE for individual use!
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
NEW! FREE INSURANCE PROTECTION ON EVERY ACCOUNT
PayPal balances are now even safer since we've insured every account against unauthorized transactions up to $100,000.
Coverage is provided by Citigroup's Travelers Insurance (TM). You can read more about our insurance policy at
http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/travelers-outside.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
NEW! AUTOMATIC AUCTION LOGOS
Attention auction sellers! With PayPal's AutoLink tool, you can automatically insert PayPal logos in all of your auction listings
on eBay (TM), Yahoo! (TM), and Amazon.com (TM). And if you choose the Automatic Daily Updating option, we'll continue to place your favorite PayPal logo in future auctions. You'll SAVE TIME while making sure that buyers know you accept PayPal. Plus, you'll get $5 referral bonuses for every new user. You'll find these convenient features under the new "Auction Tools" tab, once you log in to your account.
Note that this does not say "auction SELLERS are a business", and the HELP page links to auction tools do not specify that sellers are automatically businesses.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
NEW! FASTER, EASIER BANK ACCOUNT TRANSFERS
PayPal is making it even easier to LINK A BANK ACCOUNT to your PayPal account in order to transfer funds electronically. You
can move money into your PayPal account to fund your payments or move money out at any time. Electronic deposits and withdrawals
are ALWAYS FREE!
You'll be pleased to know that we've also made it easier to verify your bank account. In the past, we required you to send
us a voided check before you could transfer bank account funds into your PayPal account. We've now instituted a faster, simpler process that achieves the same level of security. Just log in to your account to check it out!
Use unlimited bank account funding to pay for transactions. PayPal also allows users to fund their account with up to $2,000
of credit card funding every 6 months. (Please note that all users' limits have been reset to $2,000.)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
NEW! INTERNATIONAL PAYMENTS
PayPal is now available for citizens of US territories such as Puerto Rico or Guam, as well as for US military personnel and
their families stationed overseas. And coming soon, PayPal will be available for INTERNATIONAL USERS, too. Stay tuned!
And all we are getting is STATIC on the international payment station. This is one service that I would LOVE to use as a buyer and it's been promised for months.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
NEW! PAYPAL FOR MOBILE PHONES
PayPal users can now send money on-the-go using an Internet- enabled mobile phone. Just type www.paypal.com or www.X.com (for
some phones all you have to do is type the letter "X" into your phone's Web browser and log in to your account; there's no
software to download. Splitting up a dinner bill or paying back a friend for movie tickets was never more convenient! To read
more about PayPal for Cell Phones, go to
https://secure.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/mobile_phone-outside.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
NEW! PAYPAL PARTNERS
PayPal is pleased to announce that we've teamed up with some of the Web's premier sites. These include community leaders eGroups (TM) and eCircles (TM), and invitation service Evite (TM). In
the online auction market, we're working with AuctionWatch (TM), GoTo Auctions (TM), and Honesty.com (TM). Visit our press center
at http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/press-outside
for the latest on our partnerships.
posted on September 14, 2000 06:38:32 AM new
Damon -
"The login reminder page restates a policy that has been in place for months."
I have yet to trigger this reminder page! Your system is not acting the same way to all people. YES, I am behind a firewall with my browser settings adjusted for maximum surfing privacy and security. Your web designers have to learn to DEAL WITH IT!
posted on September 14, 2000 06:46:10 AM new
As so many items are under ten or twenty dollars, you really do need to be aware of all your costs. Frankly, if your profit margins are so small that the cost of PayPal fees are a real concern, you are definitely not running your business well.
posted on September 14, 2000 08:31:41 AM new
mballi - I respectfully disagree. Some items just do not carry a high market value but are still worth selling for small-timers like me who basically enjoy making pocket money. A 1.9% service charge is not necessarily going to break the bank, but add that to a 25cent fee on top of ebay fees...it adds up to "too expensive" for most small transactions.
The electronic payment concept is great, and a convenience for all, but as a seller I can wait for a payment in the mail if I have to.
posted on September 14, 2000 09:05:34 AM new
PPD: I am NOT a business.....according to the IRS....I AM NOT A BUSINESS...I sell on Ebay and I am STILL not a business!!!!!! If the IRS says I am not a business, why do you say that I am?? Your company has lied to a great deal of PEOPLE....not businesses....PEOPLE!!!!! Just how dumb do you think we all are...I don't think any of us "just people" here have the big guys sitting around telling us how to handle this situation....but as just a plain old down home grandma, I KNOW when I have been lied to.....and I have to hand it to you.....;you did a great job!!!!!
Now, just see what a great job WE do!!!!! Oh and by the way, I will hold my breath for a response!!!!
[ edited by nanastuff on Sep 14, 2000 09:07 AM ]
posted on September 14, 2000 10:41:51 AM new
So, in other words, we are not allowed to pass this fee on to our buyers.
If this is true, can we put a clause in our auctions that says that we can not accept payment through Paypal unless the item sells for X amount of dollars? Like $10.00 or more, or $20.00 or more?
I am only a small seller and average about 19 transactions through Paypal a month. Most of those transactions are under $10.00. That does eat away at my profits since Ebay is already getting their cut first.
Just an idea but I would like some input on this suggestion.
posted on September 14, 2000 11:35:27 AM new
vsassy,
You are not allowed to directly pass this fee along. Go to the links I've already provided here & look at the wording.
Now, that doesn't mean you don't pass the increased cost along...any business does that. Whether you increase your starting price, or add a handling charge..that's up to you.
BUT, if you state that you charge a fee for accepting PayPal, you'll be walking a very thin line.
posted on September 14, 2000 11:55:53 AM new
I am not saying that I want to charge a fee to the buyers. You misunderstood. What I was saying was that I only want to offer Paypal to my buyers if the price of the auction goes over say $10.00 or $20.00. I am still willing to pay all fees associated with paypal, just not on the lower ticket items. This would keep me from having to pay the fees on anything less than $10.00 by just not accepting paypal for those $10.00 or less auctions.
Can we actually state this in our auctions or not?
into your phone's Web browser and log in to your account; there's no