igotgame
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posted on December 8, 2000 02:19:40 PM new
From what I read on these message boards is that it takes approx 60+ days from the time you contact Paypal to the time they wrap up thier investigation before they will issue a refund. The time limit for charge back on a credit card is 60 days. How convient for Paypal. By the time Paypal says they would consider a refund we cant get a charge back and then Paypal can say too bad to the investigation as well and not issue a payback. I for one will give Paypal until Monday, December 18th, 2000 to refund my money or I will issue a Charge Back. For those who want to do so as well please make sure you have all money cleared out of your PayPal account because they will freeze the account when they get hit with a charge back.
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paypaldamon
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posted on December 8, 2000 03:15:50 PM new
Hi,
I had mentioned in another thread that this item is in criminal investigation. The fraud team is working on a refund process that should be available next week. Please do not file a charge back as they will have a system for issuing refunds.
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dimview
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posted on December 8, 2000 04:20:46 PM new
[b]
paypaldamon:
"I had mentioned in another thread that this item is in criminal investigation. The fraud team is working on a refund process that should be available next week. Please do not file a charge back as they will have a system for issuing refunds."
[/b]
I do not see a compelling reason why PayPal accountholders who used a credit card to purchase this item through the PayPal online payment service should give up their rights under the Fair Credit Billing Act because of a criminal investigation of the seller.
Perhaps you can help come up with one.
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paypaldamon
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posted on December 8, 2000 04:23:31 PM new
Hi Dimview,
No user will lose their money and, as I stated, the refund process will begin next week.
There is no need to file a charge back. I have stated so publicly and all impacted users will be reimbursed.
This is due to legal reasons for the case.
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sg52
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posted on December 8, 2000 04:44:11 PM new
There is no need to file a charge back
C'mon, paypaldamon. There is an excellent reason to file a chargeback: PayPal never has stood behind their statements on Auctionwatch. PayPal changes from white to black overnight, with nonsense explanations.
What you sow so shall you reap.
Either trust PayPal, or get your chargeback now. Feel lucky?
sg52
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paypaldamon
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posted on December 8, 2000 04:47:25 PM new
HI Sg52,
While I appreciate your prodigious knowledge of the finance industry, I have simply stated what is needed to help the case. I don't know if that same knowledge carries over to prosecuting a fraud case, but this is being done for legal reasons.
Users will not lose that money.
Again, I am stating what needs to happen to assist with the case.
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vargas
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posted on December 8, 2000 05:00:16 PM new
"Users will not lose that money."
Kinda has a ring to it, doesn't it? It sounds a lot like "No one will be forced to upgrade." It even has the same number of syllables.
Edited to fix a typo
[ edited by vargas on Dec 8, 2000 05:01 PM ]
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sg52
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posted on December 8, 2000 05:03:07 PM new
Again, I am stating what needs to happen to assist with the case.
How about this, there is no plausible connection between:
-a defrauded credit card user passing by the opportunity to chargeback the fraudulent charge and instead trusting PayPal
-anyone's opportunity to prosecute fraud, nor the likelihood of success of any such prosecution
If you know of any such connection at all, feel free to demonstrate my lack of understanding.
sg52
[ edited by sg52 on Dec 8, 2000 05:04 PM ]
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paypaldamon
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posted on December 8, 2000 05:12:17 PM new
Hi Sg52,
We havelaw enforcement on the issue. That is what needs to happen and I am not going to go more in depth with it.
I am giving instructions in order to assist and clarify any concerns related to the case. This is done in order to reassure the users that they will not be out any money due to this problem.
Comments from other posters stating that PayPal is trying to take their money or earn interest off of it are incorrect and cause undo concern for users that have already gone through enough.
Resolution is just around the corner and all impacted users will be notified and compensated.
There is no need to file a charge back because we will be returning money to users. As I mentioned, the notification process will begin next week (early, from my understanding).
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sg52
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posted on December 8, 2000 05:29:35 PM new
We have law enforcement on the issue. That is what needs to happen and I am not going to go more in depth with it.
What does this have to do with credit card chargbacks?
sg52
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paypaldamon
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posted on December 8, 2000 05:34:34 PM new
Hi Sg52,
If the user is going to be refunded, what need is there for a charge back?
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hartlandnwolff
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posted on December 8, 2000 06:11:41 PM new
[ edited by hartlandnwolff on Dec 8, 2000 06:12 PM ]
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tutam
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posted on December 8, 2000 06:32:33 PM new
Why? Because for one there are people out there that have More than $5000 into Gametek. Paypal only guarantees up to $5000. It comes down to this.....HOPE I will get my money back or KNOW I will get my money back. Charge back all the way.
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paypaldamon
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posted on December 8, 2000 06:35:43 PM new
Hi tutam,
I understand the concerns, but you are not going to lose any money. I can only do so much reassurance. All customers will be refunded their money.
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Zazzie
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posted on December 8, 2000 06:36:13 PM new
good grief---who and why did someone purchase $5000.00 worth from them???
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tutam
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posted on December 8, 2000 09:53:53 PM new
One for each house?
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booksbooksbooks
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posted on December 9, 2000 04:16:19 AM new
OK, Damon, two questions, if you're telling the truth:
(1) What is the name and agency affiliation of the law enforcement officer who has told Paypal to delay refunding money to the victims? (Hint: "I don't know" is not an acceptable answer; ask someone who does know.)
(2) You say Paypal isn't trying to earn interest off of this money. Will the refund include the interest you've make while keeping this money away from its rightful owners?
Your turn, Damon. Your credibility is riding on the answers.
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dblumenfeld
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posted on December 9, 2000 04:43:56 PM new
Who's the bigger scammer: Gametek or PayPal?
Why should buyers defrauded by Gametek give up their consumer credit protections on the vague "guarantee" from PayPal that their funds will be refunded? Remember folks, PayPal is the same company that guaranteed "Free Forever," then turned around and started charging fees.
There is only ONE way for a credit card user scammed by Gametek to legally protect their rights: DISPUTE THE CHARGE THROUGH YOUR CREDIT CARD COMPANY. If PayPal eventually refunds the credit card charges, PayPal can certainly report that fact to the credit card companies if and when they do so.
PayPal only acts with their own interests in mind; why should users not do the same?
- Dan
This message has been modified from its original version. It has been formatted to fit your brain.
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KateArtist
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posted on December 9, 2000 04:46:32 PM new
In my opinion there is little credibility in what a PayPal employee says PayPal will do. I've seen Damon misrepresent PayPal's motives in the verification requirement. (This may be not have been his fault, but it still badly damaged the value of his word).
I believe the safest thing to do is start the chargeback procedure which will freeze the charge and then wait to see if PayPal follows through. At this point (since the process takes a while) it can be stopped.
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toyranch-07
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posted on December 9, 2000 05:19:05 PM new
Ooohhhh LOooOK!
It's "Why Companies Should Not Lie In Order To Get Customers: v2.0"
www.f(_._)#&%company.com
So long 
http://www.millionauctionmarch.com/
[email protected]
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dblumenfeld
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posted on December 9, 2000 06:28:53 PM new
From the Fountain Valley Police Dept. webpage concerning the Gametek scam:
(http://www.fountainvalley.org/gametek/)
"If you have placed an order with GAMETEK, it would be to your best interest to stop payment on whatever payment method you used; credit card, money order, cashier's check. GAMETEK's web site was taken off-line by GAMETEK and you are unable to cancel your order through them."
- Dan
This message has been modified from its original version. It has been formatted to fit your brain.
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booksbooksbooks
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posted on December 9, 2000 09:18:07 PM new
Well, Damon, there we have a law enforcement official -- a real one, identified by department affiliation, not a figment of someone's imagination -- telling vistims to file for chargebacks.
For a second time, can you give us the identity of any law enforcement officer who tells victims that they shouldn't, or that Paypal shouldn't return their money immediately?
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dblumenfeld
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posted on December 10, 2000 08:25:25 AM new
The notice from the Fountain Valley police department. was signed by Detective Rick Freeman. Thus, I assume that the department's official position is for credit card customers defrauded by Gametek to request chargebacks through their credit card issuer.
- Dan
This message has been modified from its original version. It has been formatted to fit your brain.
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sg52
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posted on December 10, 2000 09:31:24 AM new
In fairness to paypaldamon, I don't think PayPal ever intended to claim that not doing a chargeback was related to law enforcement or criminal investigations.
paypaldamon came to us with two answers:
-defrauded buyers will have to supply an affidavit
-defrauded buyers need not initiate a chargeback
paypaldamon seems authorized to say these things in different words, but not to say anything which would expand on them, or provide the answer to some more complex question.
What went wrong is that paypaldamon started supplying the answers to the wrong questions. When challenged regarding the obvious superiority to defrauded buyers of initiating the chargeback, paypaldamon mentioned the criminal investigation. Two blocks available, picked up the wrong one for the occasion.
As has been pointed out many times, both answers are extrordinarily self-serving, being deliberately designed to reduce PayPal's eventual refund totals.
sg52
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dblumenfeld
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posted on December 10, 2000 09:40:45 AM new
Credit card consumers aren't required to file affidavits with PayPal. Simply contest the fraudulent charges by Gametek. By now the credit card companies are well aware of the situation and will place those charges in dispute.
How PayPal handles the situation with the credit card companies is their problem.
- Dan
This message has been modified from its original version. It has been formatted to fit your brain.
[ edited by dblumenfeld on Dec 10, 2000 10:47 AM ]
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sg52
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posted on December 10, 2000 10:25:18 AM new
Credit card consumers aren't required to file affidavits
Well, they are in fact required to "file" an affidavit. A signed statement of non-recepit, for example. But the statement goes to the credit card company, not to PayPal.
sg52
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scooterman557
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posted on December 10, 2000 07:38:30 PM new
Hey sg52:
Ask paypaldamon WHERE the money is
RIGHT NOW?
It's in their freaking account (paypal) because they froze it from getting to ps2cart.
The cops don't have it....paypal has it and is earning interest on it every day.
Ask him where it is.
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sg52
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posted on December 10, 2000 08:36:09 PM new
The cops don't have it....paypal has it and is earning interest on it every day.
I'm no defender of PayPal, but the interest on this money is epsilon compared to what the fiasco will eventually cost PayPal, presuming that PayPal survives long enough to be held responsible. For that matter, it's close to nothing when compared with PayPal's daily burn rate.
PayPal did transfer substantial sums to GameTek before cutting them off.
PayPal faces a substantial burden to just give the frozen money back; they're stalling, I believe, not to get interest on the money, but to:
1. Increase the numbers of people who will not properly ask for a refund.
2. Figure out a way to give back the money in a PayPal account while eliminating chargeback liability.
sg52
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toyranch-07
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posted on December 11, 2000 06:10:22 AM new
If you bought from Gametek through PayPal, take a look at your credit card statement. It doesn't say 'Gametek' anywhere on it. It says 'PayPal'.
You don't have a chargeback against Gametek because you didn't PAY Gametek. You paid PayPal. If PayPal failed to pay Gametek, you have a chargeback against them. If they paid Gametek, you don't. From Vias/MC's point of view, your credit card was used to pay PayPal and their obligation was to pay Gametek on your behalf.
However... Visa/MC probably have some new 'special regulations' for PayPal... heh heh...
http://www.millionauctionmarch.com/
[email protected]
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paypaldamon
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posted on December 11, 2000 10:44:14 AM new
Hi scooterman557,
The money is in that account for legal reasons. As I mentioned, NO user will lose any money and the process will begin this week for getting users refunded as a result of this issue.
I am sorry for the inconvenience that this site caused users and that the delay is causing, but there are legal reasons behind it.
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