posted on January 6, 2001 10:46:38 AM new
Okay - someone help me understand this. Especially amalamgated(sp?) who has been the sanest voice these last few days (my bias).
I have been selling 99.5% of what I sell on Yahoo, only very rarely using ebay when I know a specific item has a rabid following there.
Example - a $200 Christmas ornament.
Now - people who want to buy ornaments that cost upwards of $100 do NOT by and large shop Yahoo.
Plain and simple, ebay has this audience.
So I list my ornament and I wait.
Supply is verrrry limited and so I know that as soon as the buyer finds my auction, there will be a sale.
I have to wait until someone looking for this unfindable thing uses a universal search and this could take awhile, but since *I have the only piece for sale on the Internet* I need only bide my time.
Now I could put the thing on Ebay and be rid of it in a week, but I am a YAHOO seller.
I think most would agree that what I am offering here is a QUALITY item, and I hope that it is just as obvious that I would never dream of listing on Yahoo with the current fee structure as I may be 3 months selling the dang thing incurring fee on top of fee on top of fee, instead of ebay's 1 shot and it is sold opportunity.
A listing like this is very good for Yahoo because if they have one of *those* listed then I guess it is not all junk, and more people bother to search.
Now someone please explain to me why I would list *anything* of quality on Yahoo with these fees.
And if we all agree it is not worth paying to list "junk" then just exactly what shall we list on Yahoo?
Oh.
I know.
1 item with a link to your webpage....
posted on January 6, 2001 11:38:21 AM new
I was also very offended by being told that my stuff was junk. Okay, maybe the paperbacks were but: my trading cards (all sorts) were mint but priced so children could afford them and my used clothing were always in good condition and I priced them very reasonable.
However, my craft items are state fair blue ribbon winners and that really set me off. However, I sell these items at little profit so I can afford to make more. I would rather people had the stuff and enjoyed it then make a major profit. But it had to wait for the right buyer because not everyone wants a green afghan or a pink dishcloth. BUT IT WAS DEFINATELY NOT JUNK!!!!!!!!!!!
posted on January 6, 2001 11:47:07 AM new
I'm getting mighty tired of people looking down their noses and saying the sellers are selling JUNK...
I agree with Verymodern, it takes a while with searches a long while for somebody to FIND your item...And there is always somebody who wants your item, they just have to find it.
But none of us can afford to spend that kind of money to FIND it.
This does prove that in the long run if somebody could come up with the solution to the problem, that Final Fees would really work for ALLLLLL of USSSSSS....
posted on January 6, 2001 12:31:47 PM new
well i must be suffering from PWS <--- man's version of PMS.. i seem to be full of opinons today... anyway "One Man's Junk is another Man's Treasure"
My last Auction Listing on yahoo incase anyone is interested...
posted on January 6, 2001 12:42:47 PM new
I have a junk banana boat to sell! Dayyyooo, dayyyooo, daylight come and it's not listed on feehoo! Come Mista tally man tally me rotten bananas, (A load donated by feehoo!). Thanks feehoo!
posted on January 6, 2001 01:31:13 PM new
Hi, just thought I'd give a buyers perspective on this whole matter of 'junk auctions'. I think a lot of sellers have misinterpreted the use of the word 'junk' to mean that the item for sale is of low quality. To me, a 'junk auction' is ANY item (of ANY quality) with a starting bid that is higher than the average selling price of said item.
Just so you know, I collect sports cards, where it is possible to find the real world sale value (as opposed to retail or book value) of virtually every item by looking at previously closed auctions. This does not necessarily apply to all categories, but I believe it is generally true since most items in online auctions are not one of a kind.
Anyway, my problem with buying on Yahoo! Auctions is that when I go and conduct a search for my favorite player, I get 600 auctions returned. You'd think this would be a good thing... great selection, right? The problem is that 90% of these items have a starting bid of at least 125% of the value of the card. They are not really auctions at all... these sellers are taking advantage of the fact that Yahoo! is free and listing items at full retail hoping to dupe a sucker into buying them. So now, I have to sift through 500+ 'auctions' that have no chance of selling to find the 50 or so true auctions that I might be interested in bidding on. It is for this reason that I do not browse Yahoo! Auctions.
If sellers have to pay $0.20 to list an item they will have to price it realistically so that it will sell and they can recoup their cost. This will reduce the number of auctions dramatically, but 90% of those auctions were going to close without a bidder anyway. From a sellers perspective, reducing the selection by 50, 60, or even 70% might seem like a bad thing, but as a buyer I'd much rather see 50 real auctions than 500 'junk auctions'. If this listing fee has its intended effect, I would be much more likely to shop on Yahoo! Auctions.
And for those that argue that there are still people posting 'junk auctions' on eBay even with the listing fee... that's true but its not anywhere near as bad. If I conduct a search for the same player on eBay I get 300 results with about 40-50% priced reasonably.
Personally, I think the listing fee is going to have its intended effect and that Yahoo! Auctions will be a better (albeit smaller) place for it.
Just my 2 cents... I welcome any comments or thoughts...
posted on January 6, 2001 01:40:57 PM new
and from a seller's perspective, we do not want to drive around to 500 yard sales, to gather unique widgets ungettable any other way so that we can make 20 cents, or $2.
Never mind do we want to clean it, store it, take it's picture, write about it, pack it, tote it to the PO and take responsibility if you decide it is not worthy for some paltry sum.
Bottom line here is that there are too many hands in our pockets - so what I say to the people who want to buy things CHEAP - is you get off your butt and go to 100 yard sales in a weekend and chances are excellent that next time you will happily pay me...
posted on January 6, 2001 02:06:28 PM new
Hi PRECIOUSMINUTES:
Looks like Yahoo has had to hire someone to look for protest auctions and cancel them. They found yours. This must be more than a petty annoyance if they are going to all this trouble! Maybe something IS getting through to them!
posted on January 6, 2001 02:22:52 PM new
msmas
yeah it looks like they did.. but it was only a little itty bitty protest... i figure if they could make money of of us sellers.. then us seller could make money off of them by selling Auction ID Names... kind of like a Domain Name!! HAHAH buying this yet???
posted on January 6, 2001 02:51:31 PM new
I pretty much sell nearly everything I list on Yahoo.......eventually. Just a few weeks ago I sold an item that I've been listing off and on for about year. Generally it takes about 2-3 months )many times longer) for one of my Yahoo auctions to get a bid--and I don't use reserves. I am not selling junk, and I am in total agreement with VeryModern's first post on this thread. I list or I should say I listed on YAHOO because to a degree I didn't care how long it took to sell--I have a full-time job, and packing and shipping 6-10 items a week is what I can do comfortably.
Deadbeat bidders have not been a major problem for me on either Yahoo or eBay, although I do have a few more on Yahoo. My most recent Yahoo deadbeat did not pay for two books which sold at $12 each. Never paid. Listed them on eBay and they sold for $35 each. I think I should leave him some glowing feedback for not paying.
posted on January 6, 2001 02:52:08 PM new
The rich are always trying to make it a rich man's world. If you're not selling Ming Dynasty china enema bags or Ryder chad-carrying trucks you must be selling junk.
But I make money on junk. How many Ryder chad-carrying trucks can there be???
posted on January 6, 2001 03:05:47 PM new
VeryModern-
I don't think most bidders are trying to buy stuff on the cheap, I'm perfectly willing to pay what something is worth to me. In the sports card category, what something is worth to me also happens to be the same as it is worth to everyone else 99% of the time. Obviously, this is not true in all categories, but I think it applies to most books, coins, stamps, cds, videos, electronics, computers, clothing, sporting goods, cars, tickets, etc.
My point is that most of the items in sports cards on Yahoo! START at a higher price than the average CLOSING bid for the same item on eBay. In an ideal auction format, all items would start at $0.01 and the bidders would determine the value. I know this is not realistic, but if the sellers on Yahoo! would just price their items EQUAL to the average eBay closing price, they'd be making 5% MORE (w/o FVF on Y!) than the sellers on eBay, who are clearly making a profit since they are still selling.
Sellers are smart enough to list the right items at the right price so that the item will sell and they'll still retain a profit margin even after paying $0.20 for the listing. I think this listing fee will improve the buying experience on Yahoo! as I stated in my previous post and still allow sellers to make more profit than they do on eBay. It is the unrealistic starting bids that have kept bidders away from the sports cards category on Yahoo! and I think with the listing fee there will actually be more bidders than in the past.
posted on January 6, 2001 03:19:21 PM new
jerzyboy - I appreciate everything you wrote as a buyer, and I am not arguing with you.
I am writing from *this* seller's perspective.
I moved to Yahoo to keep more of the profit from my hard work in my pocket. The whole damned Internet is going out of business from giving the store away.
Yahoo (and Ebay) want me to hunt stuff down and put it on their site for $1 and cross my fingers that the site is up (ebay) or someone happens by (Yahoo) and I get something remotely approaching the worth of my effort, and I do not trust them to deliver the result for reasons that are blatantly obvious.
Bottom line is that the profit margin is smaller each WEEK and as a *buyer* you can expect to go online and NOT find the variety available that you have in the past. I have had over 1000 successful auctions on Yahoo in 2000, so I think it is fair to say I was listing things that people want. I won't do it anymore, for the reason I outlined in my first post.
posted on January 6, 2001 03:26:32 PM new
oh, and having an "auction" on Yahoo is silly in the first place. This bidder pool is NOT there.
Yahoo has BUYERS, not BIDDERS.
By God, I have some experience here, this is the case, and virtually every successful Yahoo seller will tell you the same thing.
If you want to have an auction, go to Ebay, but better hurry because BIN will dominate there too except in the case of truly auctionable items which represent less than 10% of what is offered on either site.
posted on January 6, 2001 03:32:13 PM new
Hey, they closed my protest auctions; the two with my user ID for sale. However, there a few more they missed. But I can't tell you all where or how on this board because they are watching!!!!!
posted on January 6, 2001 03:50:44 PM new
Well put. Yahoo has Buyers not bidders. If we started things at $.01 (which is the principle for an auction YES) we would sell it for $.01 because some person would come along, believe us to be an idiot and buy it. Because it would take another 2 or 3 weeks for another person to bid against them. I am pretty sure that this intelligent group of sellers understands the theory of auctions but we have worked YaWho long enough to know that it doesn't work that way there. I don't think in the 2 years I have sold there I have had any auction close with more than 3 to 5 bidders. But I have made money selling there and I liked it. It was a little slow but it suited me fine.
posted on January 6, 2001 03:53:10 PM new
Not trying to step on anyones toes here, but it is beyond me how anyone (including Yahoo) thinks that there will be more bidding activity with the fees...when there will be nothing to bid on.
I also agree that the ideal auction would start at .01 and go from there....the problem is that on Yahoo, especially with the jumbled listing order, if you start an item at .01 you will be lucky if it ends at .05....and now you have to pay a .20 listing fee? Doesn't sound like a good proposition to me...maybe that's why I've never seen a real life auction start bidding at .01.
posted on January 6, 2001 05:16:41 PM new
jerzyboy- you're missing the point here. Believe me, I understand the point that you're trying to make, I buy on Yahoo & Ebay just as much as I sell. But I think the fees imposed in the way that they are being imposed will get rid of almost all the sellers, the ones with reasonable prices too. The sellers with the most reasonable prices are going to be the ones hit the hardest by the fees, truthfully.
Just watch- there will be virtually no sports cards left to buy on Yahoo. The ones you wanted to buy, listed at reasonable prices, will no longer be available for you on Yahoo. The seller won't be able to afford to list them on Yahoo and wait around for you to maybe bid on one, maybe not. Meanwhile (s)he will have to keep relisting at 20¢ a pop. Won't happen. You'll lose the sellers with reasonable prices AND the ones with unreasonable prices. This is pretty obvious to me. I mean, what's the difference between a card that is priced "fairly" and a card that is 25% overpriced? 25¢? $1.00? Sure it makes a difference to you as a buyer. As a seller it becomes NOT WORTH IT at a certain point.
I used to sell polly pockets, my little ponies, Barbie dolls, and the like on Yahoo. I listed a lot of my merchandise singly (or some in very small lots of 3-4 items.) I had a lot of customers who would buy 5 or 6 things from me at a time. But I often had people who would buy just ONE thing, and I'd often get emails saying "Thanks so much it was the ONE thing I'd been looking for!" It is now unfortunaltely NOT WORTH IT for me to continue doing this.
posted on January 6, 2001 05:25:00 PM new
jerzyboy:
Most of the items I sell are from $50. - $1,000. with the median of ~$150. - $200
To list them on Yahoo has cost me ~$2.00 to feature them each time they are listed and it usually takes 3-4 times to sell all except for the very rare items. When the listing fees go into effect, the same item would cost me $5.00 each time to list it. I refuse to pay over and over to get a sale on Yahoo when the same items would sell with one listing on eGREED. I absolutely refuse to pay ANY reserve fee. It is my business and if I choose to list items with a reserve, that is my right- and I see no legitimate reason that any auction site has the right to charge reserve fees of any kind. After all, they are "only a venue" as they have repeatedly lied to many state Attorneys General when complaints have been filed.
I won't be listing my items on Yahoo. I had 50 items to list on Friday (which would have cost me ~$100. to feature) and I would rather list them on my web page and promote my site by print ads and business cards (I can feature items for FREE!) I may give edeal a try- I already opened a business to consumer account (I have no problem paying a FVF if an item sells there) and I have nothing to lose to try it since listing is free.
Too bad my $100. - $1,500. radios and $200. - $1,000. pieces of art pottery (Rookwood, Redwing, Weller, Pilkington) are "junk" and Yahoo doesn't want them listed any more. eGREED doesn't want them listed (even though they took a FVF each time I sold one) and now Yahoo doesn't want the "junk" so I will find another place to list them or sell them from my web page. I have no problem with FVFs on Yahoo, or feature fees. I have no problem with reasonable listing or FVFs on eGREED. I *DO* have problems with reserve fees on ANY site. I do NOT support any kind or listing fees on Yahoo because the traffic does not warrant listing fees.
I sell low end items too - Many people look for items especially ones from their childhood. I have purchased many Scholastic books because of fond memories of my childhood....... I know many people who buy sportscards on Yahoo - they have no problem searching to find what they want for a price they want. If they don't like the price- they don't bid - how much easier can that be???
I am sure there is an auction site that would welcome my "junk" I would not even mind a FVF if the item sells. ***If*** the traffic warrants a listing fee, I would pay it. I absolutely REFUSE to pay a reserve fee. The auction site is a venue and has no right to dictate how I list my items- or to charge me because I choose to use reserve fees to protect my investment (which is sometimes considerable)
posted on January 6, 2001 05:38:50 PM new
grayowl,
I have deleted your post as it is considered promotional. The Community Guidelines prohibit posts that advertise products or services in the Message Center.
dman3,
Your comment was an insult to AW members and violates the Community Guidelines. I am issuing you an informal warning. Continuing to post in that manner could jepordize your posting privileges.
posted on January 6, 2001 06:22:30 PM new
Im Sorry my post was not intended to be insulting to any person.
But I may have used poor wording.
Point I was makeing is I feel no need to defend my Auction Items list on yahoo or any where else like the rest of the sellers here the listings , bids and feed back we all have speaks for us.
The best defence in this matter of "Junk on yahoo" is No Comment at all.
Linda thanks for makeing it an informal warning because I am a jeans and tee shirt kinda guy and having to dress up you know formal like in a suit and tie makes me a wreck and I can never find a sports coat to match the work boots.
posted on January 6, 2001 08:54:17 PM new
Very Modern - Thanks for starting this thread! I sell vintage postcards, $5.00 and under items, and have sold at least 5,000 in the last year. To many, they are junky little pieces of paper, but I get email after email from my buyers, telling me wonderful stories about why they wanted their card. The images bring back good memories, or are sent to someone who shares a memory from a place, or a spot is a favorite get away, I could go on and on. It is often very satisfying to package and send the piece of "junk" that so many folks seem to value. And of course, the right person for the right image doesn't happen along all that fast, especially on yahoo...and if they don't sell within ten days they'e junk, right? Grrrr!
Charlie