RebelGuns
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posted on January 22, 2001 01:12:47 PM new
Lawsuit accuses Yahoo of justifying war crimes
http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1007-200-4560537.html?tag=st.cn.sr.ne.2
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RB
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posted on January 22, 2001 01:21:13 PM new
Aw Geez Louise ... don't go there eh ...
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rolllanotherone
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posted on January 22, 2001 01:43:07 PM new
Thank You
The new guidelines state we will be allowed to sell Nazi coins and stamps only. There is not an embargo on these as of yet. Yahoo is the only one allowing this much freedom.
Why this one war is so much more painful then the rest I dont know. There are victims in all wars. France thinks their pain is more special then anyone elses. War is War, an important part of history.
I was told on another auction site that I was supposed to forget about anything for the years of the 3rd Reich where the swazitika was viewable. What about Stallin? No one says a Thing about him. He's everywhere. Isn't he the one who started this Awful War to begin with?
The US fought for france.
I just dont get it at all, The US put our own boys(Sons-fathers-grandfathers) out there to save the lives of a group who hates Jesus and now we are called hate mongers?
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stockticker
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posted on January 22, 2001 04:25:41 PM new
Let's see - France was mainly Roman Catholic. The other countries in Europe that were invaded during WWII were mainly Protestant or Catholic.
Protestants and Catholics hate Jesus? Wow, that's news to me.
Did all American soldiers who fought in WWII have to pass some sort of test to show that they believed in Jesus before they were allowed to fight? That's news to me too!
Irene
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RebelGuns
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posted on January 22, 2001 04:37:33 PM new
My father was one of only 1,000 US soldiers who was awarded the Fleur-de-Cross, French Medal of Honor, because of his actions in France in World War II.
He also had a small collection of Nazi regalia (items taken by him from German soldiers). I guess since he saved them, that makes him a hate monger according to the French that once called him a hero,
If he were alive today, I can only imagine what he would be saying to the French regarding their attack on American enterprise.
After all, without the Allies, including the US, many citizens of which sell or collect Nazi or WW II regalia et al, there would be no France.
Persecution works two ways. Those that seem to fight hate groups, are often, themselves, a form of hate group. Beware of finger pointers. Sometimes they should be pointing in a mirror, rather than at others.
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rolllanotherone
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posted on January 22, 2001 09:13:01 PM new
Irene-
You missed the group being protected. apparently you dont grasp the fact that this is not the only WAR we collect.
Sorry if it offends you, that is your problem not mine.
If you saw hitlers mustache comb at a yard sale for 50 cents, would you buy it?
I myself would buy his belly button lint if I thought I could make a buck off the fruitloop. I would rather have Hitlers bellybutton lint, then Hitler have mine.
Everytime you point your finger, the other 3 fingers are pointing right back at you.
Rebel Guns - Thank Your father for us.
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stockticker
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posted on January 22, 2001 10:20:44 PM new
Rolllanotherone:
Like most wars, World War II was all about territory and lack of respect thereof - Hitler's invasion of other countries, Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor.
I personally don't have a problem with people collecting Nazi memorabilia although I don't have any desire to collect myself. I simply believe that every country should have the right to make its own laws, whatever my personal opinion of those laws.
I'm an atheist. However, I do have a problem with people who make anti-Semitic statements.
Irene
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stockticker
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posted on January 22, 2001 10:39:52 PM new
France doesn't have the right to dictate what goes on outside its borders. It does have a right to dictate what goes on within its borders.
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granee
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posted on January 23, 2001 04:44:52 AM new
OK, Irene, so is Yahoo's American internet Auction OUTSIDE France's borders or WITHIN France's borders?????????????????
THAT'S the question being decided here, and Yahoo plans to continue its fight in U.S. courts to overturn the French Court decision.
And I say, more power to them!
There's more at stake in this decision than just whether we can sell Nazi memorabilia on Yahoo American Auction. If the French decision stands it opens an ENORMOUS can of worms for every single website on the internet, because there will ALWAYS be SOMEONE claiming they're offended/slandered/hurt/disgraced/damaged irreparably by SOMETHING on the net, if THERE'S BIG MONEY TO BE MADE IN DOING SO.
Greed has no bounds.
The lawsuit now being filed is just another wacko group led by a greedy, power-and-fame-hungry lawyer going after a large corporation, with huge dollar signs in their reptile eyes. Don't you believe for a minute they want nothing but 1 French franc out of it.
My mother always used to say, "The world's going to Hell in a handbasket," and I was too young to have the slightest idea what she was talking about.
But I'm beginning to.
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RebelGuns
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posted on January 23, 2001 05:29:20 AM new
Whether or not an American-based company's electronic signals via the internet enter into "enemy" airspace can somehow violate the laws of that country shouldn't even be the issue.
The law is broken, or should be considered broken, when an illegal transaction takes place within a country's boundaries. Allowing a country to dictate terms to companies not within its lawful jurisdiction is a threat to the autonomy of the country the company in question is based in.
France and even many socialist-leaning Americans have always been big into Interpol (probably one of the greatest threats to international autonomy and freedom since the Third Reich).
Enforcing your codes or laws enterprises in other countries is an attribute of Interpol mentality.
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stockticker
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posted on January 23, 2001 07:39:28 AM new
Someone views the auction from France, then enters a bid from France, then sends payment from France, then receives merchandise in France.
Sounds to me like part of the transaction is occurring in France.
The French court only ruled about what it to be viewed in France:
"A French judge ruled against the California-based company in November and gave it three months to set up a filtering system to prevent Web surfers in France from accessing the auctions."
It was Yahoo's decision not to set up a filtering system and to ban Nazi merchandise (worldwide) instead.
Personally, I think Yahoo should have set up a filtering system or simply gotten out of France.
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RebelGuns
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posted on January 23, 2001 07:47:11 AM new
Seriously. If you play with a socialist country, you can expect socialist conduct. Yahoo should have washed their hands of France, as anyone in their right mind should.
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rolllanotherone
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posted on January 23, 2001 08:26:32 AM new
Irene - You still dont get it. That's okay, no one expects you to.
For an atheist you are quick to classify others. That's okay too, What you think of me is only a reflection of your own insecurities and finger pointing. There will always be those 3 fingers pointing right back at you.
I am of Italian, Sicilian & French desendents, predgidous is nothing new to me. I suppose now you think I am Roman Catholic or mafia. I am not, the question
"which came first? the chicken or the egg" has not been answered yet for me to decide on what to believe. That's What America is about.
I have nothing against France, They have every right to not want Nazi items shipped. Some of us have enough sense to read a countries prohibitions before shipping. I would not send a nazi coin or stamp to France, out of respect to it's people. Nor will I send pork bellys to the UAE if that was the case.
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stockticker
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posted on January 23, 2001 08:42:38 AM new
Rolllanotherone: I agree 100% with your last paragraph.
Changing the subject a little, I still don't understand Yahoo's difficulty. They could easily have segregated the Nazi items into a separate category which would have required a viewer to key in their username and password in order to view the items. I assume the the username would indicate if the user resides in France. The software could simply not allow a French resident to view the category.
Irene
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rolllanotherone
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posted on January 23, 2001 09:20:20 AM new
Irene- that sounds good. Excuse how I explain this since it is only an idea and my dyslexia interferes with relating my thoughts in print.
An example:
My bank has an aol tag on my account so I can just type wf and click go. I am unable to access my account from another computer. You would think that this can be done also in an auction format.
Those of you who ship international understand the process of not knowing who or where an item is being sent to until the winner is announced and if you are lucky the winner responds with the info you need before you give them a shipping cost.
When we have a bidder in Yahoo's auctions sellers can see the nickname of the current high bidder as the auction is running, still you do not know where item will be shipped until the winner tells you. It would be nice if there was a little indication of a person's country that they registered under. such as:
rolllanotherone*US maybe it could be a country flag or special code. It sure would help. You could quickly check the usps site for that countries prohibitions before there is a problem at hand.
P.S> if any of you have time, please check some of the sites of the countries who are complaining about militaria being shipped there.
For instance, go to a French or german site in one of the major auction sites, then see if they are selling what we are being told not to. Yes it may be in a different language but it is easy to find certain items.
For instance, German coins and stamps: anything from 1933-1945 with the denomination starting with "reich" is what I was told by another site was disallowed after this site cancelling an item with this explaination I decided to check the countries that were also a part of the auction house.
These countries were selling Nazi items! Because this auction site did not know the terms in the other languages it was not caught. Nor did France complain about there own people selling these items! You could tell merely by the photo's! So escentially because I was in the US I was not allowed to sell. France and Germany could!
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rolllanotherone
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posted on January 23, 2001 10:43:33 AM new
I just made a quik pass thru some of the items being sold from the French Yahoo members.
Tell me what you think:
Name brand US ciggerretes
German sword
Gas Mask
1930's military goggles? no country indicated.
And the doozee- Cuban Stamps mint and used.
Looks like france is saying: DO as I say, Not as I do. France can Break the international Embargo LAws? France can come to Yahoo an take advantage of US freedom by selling items prohibited by the US?
Who know's what is being sold in the rest of these countries!
Will check more countries out
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RebelGuns
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posted on January 23, 2001 10:49:46 AM new
CNET: "PARIS--French representatives of Nazi concentration camp inmates filed a suit against the head of Yahoo on Monday, claiming a symbolic 1 franc (15 U.S. cents) of damages for the U.S. Internet giant's alleged justification of war crimes."
It all just gets sillier and sillier. It's hard to believe it all involves adults.
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stockticker
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posted on January 23, 2001 11:20:30 AM new
Rolllanotherone:
I'm guessing but I assume that Yahoo was picked for the court case so that a strong high-profile precedent could be established for other lawsuits that follow. You're right though. Once the precedent was set, there should have been a crackdown on everyone.
With respect to the Cuban cigars, if Yahoo feels it should only be following U.S. law, then why is it allowing the sale of Cuban cigars on one of its sites? Isn't it Yahoo being hypocritical? It can't have it both ways. It sounds as if Yahoo, until sued, is acting like it is not subject laws of ANY country, including the U.S.
Irene
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auroranorth
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posted on January 23, 2001 12:45:15 PM new
You know I think The crime is that if an item is illegal in France then I have to ask
1. how did it get by customs?
2.Why is the person or group or laywers
buying it if it is illegal
3.why didn't Yahoo set up an id check system
like the athiest lady said?
4.reminds me of the quote the smaller they are the bigger they have to act.
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RebelGuns
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posted on January 23, 2001 12:50:20 PM new
When Yahoo tried to fight the ban against selling Nazi regalia on the internet in France, "Yahoo argued that the Web sites involved were aimed at the American market and said the U.S. First Amendment governing freedom of speech prevented it from shutting the sites down" (http://www.dmnews.com/articles/2001-01-22/12756.html).
Therefore, shouldn't those who have had their products banned be filing a class action against Yahoo because, according to Yahoo, the posters are protected by "the U.S. First Amendment governing freedom of speech."
In defense, how could Yahoo argue against it's self??? They basically TESTIFIED that canning said auctions violated the US Constituion.
Sue Yahoo!!!!
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RB
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posted on January 23, 2001 01:26:02 PM new
Rebel Guns ... You are making some very unthought-out statements here about France. I have asked the Moderators to shut down this thread.
I suggest you have a look in the mirror before you start bad mouthing people that you know nothing about ...
btw, I am not French nor do I live in France. I have a problem with the type of generalization you (and others) are making here and this thread can go nowhere but down if allowed to continue.
If you can't say something nice, then shut the H up ...
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pattaylor
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posted on January 23, 2001 01:44:43 PM new
rollanotherone,
Your comment:
"I just dont get it at all, The US put our own boys(Sons-fathers-grandfathers) out there to save the lives of a group who hates Jesus and now we are called hate mongers?"
denigrates an entire group of people, and is a violation of the CGs. I am issuing you an informal warning.
Everyone
I have been requested to lock this thread but I am inclined to allow it to continue because it is a topic of general interest to users of the Yahoo! site. Several posts have been very close to the line, however. Please keep the CGs in mind as you post. Otherwise, we will have to lock the thread and discontinue the discussion.
Thanks for your cooperation.
Pat Taylor
Moderator
[email protected]
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RB
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posted on January 23, 2001 01:53:14 PM new
Pat ...
"Yahoo should have washed their hands of France, as anyone in their right mind should."
This statment by Rebel Guns is extremely discriminatory and offensive to the people of France. How can you justify allowing this thread to continue?
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robboikfootball
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posted on January 23, 2001 02:02:42 PM new
That's what is wrong with the world these days: Too many moderators, censors, and socialist wimps.
I don't deal in war related stuff, but I feel sorry for the people who do. They have all these headaches because of socialist countries and their dumb policies.
I too would buy Hitlers belly button lint......
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jamesoblivion
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posted on January 23, 2001 02:11:31 PM new
I just dont get it at all, The US put our own boys(Sons-fathers-grandfathers) out there to save the lives of a group who hates Jesus and now we are called hate mongers?
Your impression of the U.S. involvement in WWII is most unique.
Dealing with the issue at hand, isn't the Yahoo site entirely hosted in the United States? I don't get where France is coming from at all.
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rolllanotherone
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posted on January 23, 2001 02:18:45 PM new
Sorry Pat,
I am trying not to offend. Thank You for your help.
Irene-
It seems you pick things apart like I do.=) maybe the
word IMPORT is the problem, does it mean to ship outside
the US? Can you ship within the US? IF so how did those cuban
cigars get here to be sold in the US? Was that a Cuban
Cigar used in the Clinton Scandal? How did it get here?
I am more aware of the stamps. Jfk issued the embargo on Cuban
trade on feb 7, 1962, stamps used or unused are not to be imported
by any country. The words "cuban trade" to me would most definately
include cigars To date the embargo is still active.
Can I send cuban stamps to another US destination? Or will
I be asked how they got in my hands? Is it best to not offer
them and put them in my collection?
Now Yugoslavia has just been added, via Clintons last
move of power I believe Jan 19, 2001? fortunately
my excess yugosalvia stamps did not sell before this happened so I guess I'm
supposed to burn them? Will I get a tax break
for the loss?
It is embarrassing to be misinformed, to be caught selling something you thought was okay and originally bought online makes you feel even worse.. To think you offended someone makes you feel even worse.
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figmente
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posted on January 23, 2001 02:49:06 PM new
The Cuban embargo has been relaxed somewhat. I'm sure it has been legal to sell their stamps for several years and believe the same applies to cigars. Even when in effect it never applied to products produced before the embargo was introduced.
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rolllanotherone
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posted on January 23, 2001 03:01:55 PM new
My scotts 2001 stamp catalog indicates the Cuban trade imbargo is still in effect.
It indicates any stamps of cuban origin.
You may just be right tho, husband mumbled something the other night about Cuba being lifted and now the Phillipines?
Geeze, a never ending saga
I think I will just burn them all and sell
MY bellybutton lint.
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RebelGuns
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posted on January 23, 2001 05:29:34 PM new
"This statment by Rebel Guns is extremely discriminatory and offensive to the people of France." - Just as the position of the French government and courts is offensive to the US Constitution and democracy?
Interesting that you find only my comments offensive.
I'm attacking a country and their supporting taxpayers for taking a most questionable and prescedent-setting action against an enterprise in another country.
You're just attacking me, and this is not discriminatory?
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joice
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posted on January 23, 2001 06:12:08 PM new
RB and RebelGuns,
Please discuss the subject and not the posters.
Joice
Moderator.
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