posted on February 27, 2001 10:03:52 PM new
There is a new Peer to Peer [your PC shares files with other PCs] software available for free called BearShare.
It is an amazing piece of software allows you to share files with people around the world.
Why is it important to online auction sellers? Some professors at business colleges have identified P2P software as a major threat to online auctions such as eBay, as well as online content providers.
How is it a threat? As net users become more savy, as Napster has educated many, and as more people have access to cable and DSL connections, it is within individual users power to use P2P to sell items from their own computer.
How is this possible? Just like Napster, Bearshare allows designated folders and files on your PC to become a server, open to all other P2P users. However, it differs from Napster in that there is no central server where all file names are listed for search. There is a daisy chain type search that occurs, and quite fast too.
How could someone find a file on my PC regarding something I want to sell? The potential buyer does a word search just like at the auction sites.You would name your "for sale" folder and files with terms that describe your item, just as you do with current auctions.
What does my file of items for sale contain? Anything you want it to, including pictures, other items for sale, contact information, prices, descriptions,terms etc..
How much would it cost? Since there is no "company" running the system, the cost would only be what you spend to maintain an ISP service connection.
Could I use the system if I have a phone net connection? As a buyer, a phone connection would present no problems. If a seller uses a phone connection, his items would only show up in a search when his/her PC was on line.
How could the transaction be secure? As a buyer, using an online credit card payment system such as Paypal would secure the transaction to a higher degree than sending a check or MO at an online auction. As a seller, the online credit card transaction would offer the same benefits. Proof of shipment and receipt would be wise to use.
This sounds great, when can I start? You can do it now, but we must start spreading the word about the system, and that items are being offered for sale on the system. At present, no one knows to even search on these P2P systems. But as word spreads, it could grow as fast as Napster [62 million users by word of mouth].
posted on February 28, 2001 01:54:26 AM new
This might be a stupid question, but if there's no "central website" (like Napster has) with a search engine that has all the individual computers tied to it through search criteria, how does someone know WHERE to go to FIND your computer, so he can "search" through your files to find what you're selling?
This is the concept we were discussing a month ago in an eBay thread here on AW (http://www.auctionwatch.com/mesg/read.html?num=2&thread=318885), with everyone holding their OWN auction listings or fixed-price offerings on THEIR OWN computers, but registered with a "communal" search engine on a website where buyers could go to "search" for items they wanted to buy. The discussion evolved into plans for a seller cooperative auction site instead, since it was felt by some that the Napster approach wasn't really "do-able".
posted on February 28, 2001 03:21:31 AM new
Good question. I can share music files with anyone but I needed Napster to find other users who wanted to exchange files. Does Bearshare have a public message board or something of this nature?
posted on February 28, 2001 03:28:04 AM new
Also, I have read that worms and/or viruses are being spread thru gnutella networks. Does Bearshare have a virus detector built in or do we have to rely on programs like Mcaffee etc.
posted on February 28, 2001 03:41:31 AM new
"How is it a threat? As net users become more savy, as Napster has educated many, and as more people have access to cable and DSL connections, it is within individual users power to use P2P to sell items from their own computer."
I can sell through the newsgroups too. What advantages will P2P offer over the newsgroups for individuals interested in buying and selling? I can understand cable and DSL connections threatening eBay's dominance as users are more inclined to use the added speed to shop thru other venues, but this would be to the advantage of all non-ebay venues.
posted on February 28, 2001 06:50:29 AM new
The BearShare software runs the search. The search daisy chains through a vast network of PCs online around the world. Within 10 seconds of signing on to BearShare, I have connected to other PCs and there are 12 search hits to the files I have designated to share. The PC links listed are from Austria, Switzerland, Canada, the US, and others.
Napster just databases file names from your computer on central servers - when a user wants a song, the server directs his PC to directly connect [through the internet] to the other persons PC and send a copy of the file. When a user signs on to Napster, the designated file sharing folder sends a complete list of filenames to Napster's server database. With BearShare, like Gnutella, there is no central server housing the filenames. The software directs a filename search through the internet to and from your PC and thousands of others around the world.
I have been using it for a month and was surprised how quickly a search works, and how well the system works.
Newsgroups are limited as to how much data they can hold and for how long. The data regarding your items for sale are stored on your PC and retrieved only by those who initiated a search for terms that are in the title of your file- no different than a title search on YaHoo or eBay. A newsgroup requires you to download all the headers, with BearShare, you only receive filename headers that are within your search terms.
Virus and worm problems exist mainly due to people opening files with exe, vbs, and several other file extensions. These type of files are unnecessary to transmit information about items for sale.
A central server system owned and controled by YaHoo, eBay and anyone else is why sellers are at their mercy.
P2P is the model to cut YaHoo, eBay, and even content providers out of the loop. If you insist on centrally owned and operated servers by a third party, then you are only trading one master for another.
Why do you think AOL and others process Instant Messinger through their servers? There is no need to except to have control over the system- whether to charge for it or place ads on the system.
Whether you know it or not your PC is already a server. There is information going in and out of your PC all the time over the internet.It has just been recently that software has become available that fully realizes just how much your PC is a server and is beginning to utilize this feature.
posted on February 28, 2001 07:05:51 AM new
bad idea all around
I don't want anyone to have access to the files on my computer
Think of the violations of privacy of people searching for non auction items out of your computer by file name.
When you use napster type programs it spiders your computer for any mp3 file extenstion you have and when you have napster running anyone can tap those files.
Some punk ass with a 28.8 connection could tap one of your songs and take 30 minutes to retrieve it lagging your computer in the process and if you had a hot song and you were one of the few who had it you could have 8-10 people simaltaneously and continuously trying to pull it from your computer.
This auction version of napster would be spidering your compuer how??
jpg or gif extentions??
txt?
you would have to name your item pics to exactly what they are
unlike how I name them all now
pinkwidget1.jpg
pinkwidget2.jpg
bluewidget3.jpg
What If I had a picture of an item not for sale yet I have all kinds of people tapping my computer to get it because it happened to have a name of a popular searched item.
How about me doing a search and find just how much porn you keep on your computer
this kind of program will tell me just how much you got. And let me take copies from you lol
You do get usernames of the peoples who's files you are trying to retrieve.
http://www.lovepotions.net
posted on February 28, 2001 07:31:42 AM new
First- the system is anonymous. You don't know what PC the file comes from. All you can see on the system monitor is the computer that may be connected to yours. That computer is just a feed through to other computers.
Second, the folders/files available for others on your PC to search through are designated by you. Others can only search via words/terms. They are not searching through anyones PC, anymore than you are "spidering" through YaHoo's servers when you enter a search term(s).
What happens is that you enter a search term like "antique phongraph". That request is sent out through other connected PCs around the world and any PC having a shared file with those terms in the filename comes up on your screen as a file name. You don't know who the PC belongs to that contains those files.
Third, the file type you use for sale items is totally up to you. As example, you can use a plain text file with item information and your email address for contact. You could use an HTML file like eBay's, with pictures and all. You could direct the buyer to a site that hosts a picture of the item.
Let's get an experiment going among ourselves using this P2P system. Everyone get set up with the software, designate a folder to share. Create plain txt files with a description of what you have for sale and contact information. NAME ALL SHARED FILES BEGINNING WITH THE TERM 4SALE AS EXAMPLE- FILENAME = 4SALE BOOK STEVEN KING CUJO.
Include your email address and let's contact each other when we find and obviously have read one another's 4sale files.
posted on February 28, 2001 07:41:22 AM new
reamond; I downloaded a Bearshare and was checking it out. Very similar to Napster. I can see the possibilities for online buyers and sellers. I can do a search for any item and Bearshare hooks me up with a seller. The only immediate problems I see is that the seller has to be online and many buyers rely on the sellers feedback before buying. Someone would have to set up a site for feedback for P2P transactions.
posted on February 28, 2001 07:48:54 AM new
The experiment has begun.
1. Do a search on the net for BearShare P2P software- it's free.
2. Set it up and get online with it. It is very easy to set up. The only thing you need to be careful with is make sure you designate only a folder and not a drive for sharing files from. Create a folder first, then designate it a the shared folder during set up.
3. I have created a shared file called "4sale widgets". When online with BearShare, do a search for "4sale". It is a palin text file.
4. Open the file. The file contains my email address. If you retrieve the file email me.
Sugmoi- If we transact exclusivly through credit card services, we won't need a feedback system- the credit card companies will bounce the rip off artists out and the buyers will be protected. I have a cable connection- if we keep the 4sale items as plain text files, I can host thousands of them, and be online 24/7. We'll need to work together on this, both in attracking buyers and helping each other out. Any other cable and DSL people out there I hope will volunteer to host files also.
posted on February 28, 2001 09:31:24 AM new
Is peer-to-peer threatening to displace traditional internet auctions ... AGAIN? To do that it's going to have to deal with mundane issues like trust and critical mass. If we're talking about the US market ultimately it will be just one more thing trying to make a run at Ebay.
posted on February 28, 2001 11:11:55 AM new"The only immediate problems I see is that the seller has to be online and many buyers rely on the sellers feedback before buying. Someone would have to set up a site for feedback for P2P transactions."
Being online is a problem for many, but the number of sellers with DSL and cable is quickly growing nationwide.....and before I got DSL a few months ago, I was online for ENDLESS hours, anyway. As far as seller FEEDBACK goes, it's simple enough to give a LINK to each auction feedback page, or to one of the central feedback sites on the web now.
"Is peer-to-peer threatening to displace traditional internet auctions ... AGAIN? To do that it's going to have to deal with mundane issues like trust and critical mass. If we're talking about the US market ultimately it will be just one more thing trying to make a run at Ebay."
The time is LONG OVERDUE "to make a run at Ebay", and anyone who can see the direction eBay is taking KNOWS THIS TO BE TRUE. Current seller-UNfriendly policy changes by YaWho and Amazon are signs that sellers can trust NO AUCTION SITE as a "sales venue" anymore.
Trust can be built with current auction(s) feedback, and BearShare might be smart to add feedback ratings/comments to its website. As for "critical mass"....once dealers see this as a TOTALLY FREE, VIABLE MEANS OF SELLING and let their customers know about it, it will take off like wildfire. Leave eBay to the corporate bigwigs like Disney and J.C. Penney (just as eGreed wants).
"Some punk ass with a 28.8 connection could tap one of your songs and take 30 minutes to retrieve it lagging your computer in the process and if you had a hot song and you were one of the few who had it you could have 8-10 people simaltaneously and continuously trying to pull it from your computer."
I don't think you can compare this to downloading music, because the FILE SIZES of items for sale are a TINY, TINY FRACTION of the size of music files. Even if you put your photos in your sale files, download time will only be the time of downloading an auction page, right?
Another stupid question: Do you host your photos on a webpage and LINK to them with HTML in your 4sale file, or can they be placed in the folder itself?
posted on February 28, 2001 12:08:12 PM new
oh yeah I almost forgot about that one Pocono, thanks for reminding me.
Don't even get me started on these programs and their big brother tracking/monitoring of anyone who uses it and everthing they do with it.
Any program of P2P file sharing has the ability to report in or at least know and track everything you do with it. Especially if you upload or allow the program to show others what you have to offer.
http://www.lovepotions.net
posted on February 28, 2001 01:05:16 PM new
granee: "The time is LONG OVERDUE "to make a run at Ebay", and anyone who can see the direction eBay is taking KNOWS THIS TO BE TRUE. Current seller-UNfriendly policy changes by YaWho and Amazon are signs that sellers can trust NO AUCTION SITE as a "sales venue" anymore.
Trust can be built with current auction(s) feedback, and BearShare might be smart to add feedback ratings/comments to its website. As for "critical mass"....once dealers see this as a TOTALLY FREE, VIABLE MEANS OF SELLING and let their customers know about it, it will take off like wildfire. Leave eBay to the corporate bigwigs like Disney and J.C. Penney (just as eGreed wants)."
Granee,
Unfortunately, anywhere you look in the world whatever internet auction gains critical mass first it'll continue on to completely dominate the market. The only case where that wasn't true was in the UK where Ebay entered late but came to dominate there. It could be argued though that QXL didn't yet really have critical mass, plus they appeared to be inept. Also, Ebay could offer (then) 4 million items to those in English-speaking UK to select from.
I would say Ebay does a good job catering to its sellers. It understands that a relative few (about 20,000) account for most of the volume so it makes an effort to treat them better. Ebay and Yahoo offer interesting contrasts. Yahoo seems like it's been completely moot to seller complaints directed at them. In contrast, even if Ebay refused to change they would at least publically acknowledge the dissatisfaction by their sellers. There's nothing worse than complaining to someone who won't even look up from what they're doing to acknowledge your complaint. If the complaints were bad enough Ebay would buckle and evenutally make the change.
I give Ebay good odds for being able to fend off future threats. Some people may use BearShare, some may use Bidville, some may use newspaper web classifieds, but Ebay should continue to dominate internet auctions in the US.
posted on February 28, 2001 02:36:54 PM new
Bear Share is no surprise to me-- Even being a non techie type, I often wondered why we had to rent a major web page to sell wares.
If LAN is possible- why not this... Thanks VERY much for your sensitivity to others need to know!!
The main question I have is-- as time has shown- ALL freebies eventually charge. What makes Bearshare such a charitable piece of s/ware?Also-- this is available on a dialup computer? Also- will this not encourage ISP servers to increase their charges?
We've learned here that there are always e-wolves lurking in the shadows of any unsuspecting creature on the way to e-Grandma's house...
posted on February 28, 2001 03:18:02 PM new
Here is a reply from my respected s/w guru friend:
I am already familiar with the concept . . . it is very similar to how ICQ works, and is much like the concept of "ASP"
-- Active Service Provider -- where you rent access to software that is
out on the web somewhere.
I strongly suspect that the people hyping this thing have no real idea of how it works.
For one, the security risks are horrendous! Once in your machine, it is
unbelievably easy for someone to geet to the other files, to run
malicious code, to insert worms, trojan horses, and virii into your
files, and to completely #*!@ up your kernel -- the main component of
the OS.
It sounds good to folks like you who want to beat eBay or other
auctions. but believe me , it is bad news all the way around. DOS based systems -- like yours and most others -- have no effective
security in the file system other than share-not share, which is very
easy to bypass. If a computer was running NTFS file systems -- W2K and
NT -- there would be a bit more limitation on access, but not to someone
who was using readily available tools (Back Orifice, many others, which
are on the net.) to penetrate.
Further, machine speed and line speed would play a critical part in the
equation. Someone running a slow machine and a slow modem could tie up
your machine for hours. And -- if they so desired -- someone could
completely block access to your machine simply by making a connection
and then locking it open -- while they, of course, sold their competing
product.
Further, unless you were fairly tech savvy, most of this stuff can go on
without you having a clue.
Sorry, but I have to say a *BIG* no on this one . . .
posted on February 28, 2001 04:37:33 PM new
What I am wondering is what is so hot about this bearshare stuff.
If all people want to do is sell or auction item directly from there computer ICQ has offered the abilty to turn your computer in to a web server.
Thats right you can install store or auction software right in you computer ICQ makes your computer a web server when your computer website is activated any one you add to your list knows not only when your on line but that you have a ICQ webserver and even if people are not on your ICQ chat list ICQ has a great searchable data base it also advertizes you website for you on there server.
if you have a DSL or a cable modem your computer is on line 24/7 for people to make bids on your Item right from your computer through your ICQ web server.
ICQ allows you to choose to block file uploads and down loads from your HD or to allow them from one directory so there is little chance of getting a virus.
My guess is as many if not more people on the net use ICQ then use Ebay world wide.
posted on February 28, 2001 05:54:37 PM new
The major drawback I see, besides getting into files I do not designate, is security software blocking it. I have a security program which blocks any source, attempting to enter my computer, for purposes of information retrieval or control of my PC. I am not about to turn this program off, to allow such access. I get hits everyday from Asian sources trying to access my computer, for control of it, or taking information from it. My computer is in stealth mode, at all times, (looks like no computer exists here). Anything that has an open invitation to a PC to take from it, will take what you do not offer. A very risky proposition. Thanks for the information reamond, it is nice of you to explain it, but I will have to pass.
.
posted on February 28, 2001 09:56:39 PM new
To answer some questions.
First, true P2P systems have no central servers to post feedback or anything else - it is just software that permits your PC to act like a server with worldwide searchs. I also tried a search today with the term "for sale". It appears someone has already figured the commercial angle for P2P as I found html/htm files already setup for pictures and item description.
The security risks from P2P are no worse than just being online. There is no way to find out what computer you're even getting the information from, much less "searching" through their other files without a herculian tracing system. If you have these capabilities, a P2P system is no barrier to your hacking anyone's PC.
If you're on DSL or cable and have no firewall, you're PC is being breached probably 20 times an hour. There is no system absolutely secure whether it is your email or your NetBios or your browser. Web sites such as eBay and YaHoo and others place and retreive information from your PC everytime you visit their sites. This information includes who you are, where you've been, and where you went. While there are ways to prevent this passing of information, the sites will not function properly without accepting this placing and retreiving of information.
There are security settings on BearShare that permit you to designate even what type of files are permitted to be downloaded/searched. When I use the term "search" I mean users can search for the file name, not the actual file content.
I use my firewall while BearShare is running without any problems.
I am also at a loss at the "tech guru's" statement regarding locking up your files/system with a slow download. All you have to do to a slow download is right click and abort or set the system not to accept slow downloads just like Napster. I have my system set for 60 simultaneous downloads [technically uploads] with up to 3 files being downloaded by the same person, and I surf the web doing other things while BearShare is running and sharing files. The security problems the "guru" points out are there regardless of what you are doing online.
Again, if we go with central servers, we're just trading one master for another.
posted on March 1, 2001 02:10:03 AM new
P2P online selling might work when everyone is on cable or DSL. So far it has been a big waste of time. 99% busy when I try to download a file from anyone on Gnutella. P2P is a great concept but so far thats about it.
posted on March 1, 2001 03:19:19 AM new
Gnutella is/was a waste of time. BearShare is an improvement of the Gnutella platform.
It works 10 times better than Gnutella and is a simpler format to set up and use. There are now over 8 million people with DSL or cable connections in the US. But when I see some of the speeds loading on BearShare there must be a lot of phone connections using it too.
I just read an article on Cnet that said Intel is going to develope P2P.
Remember, regarding net enterprises, the first ones in are generally the last ones standing.
